Heavyweight rug already?!

Moomin1 said:
Funny isn't it how we seem to have an abundance of horses who 'shiver' in temps of 15 degrees etc over here without a hw on, yet they don't appear to exist in countries which get really cold.
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cold is not wet and windy though is it? I have two natives who only see fly rugs, I have a lusitano who came over this year and didn't know what hit him on friday (26hours heavy rain and 60pph winds, followed by 80mph winds and 20 hours rain last night/today). He came over in June but maybe I should just let him be utterly miserable until he grows a decent coat (which will not happen this year).

my horse and ponies did brilliantly well in those very cold winters-we had little wind and temps down to -15. last year was awful, every day here in December we had gales and heavy rain/snow. The snow didn't lie, there were few frosts but there was still a windchill of -5 to -10 and even the Exmoors looked miserable and they are generally impervious to the weather.
 
Mongoose11 said:
Okkaaaay, so maybe it's different for others...who then rug accordingly. I have a little 'weather station' on my gate. I reset it each day and it shows current temp and highest/lowest temp of a 24 hour period - yesterday the highest temp was 12 and at this point she was in a stable, naked. Lowest point was 4 and at this point she was out in a m/w. Lowest point of the night before was 2.

So SF it seems there are variances in climate ranging from 17 to 1.
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It would have to be a heck of a difference to rug in an unclipped healthy horse in a mw with duvet under....that kind of rugging would be in severe cold weather spells in my book, not anything above 2 degrees.

I have repeatedly said I have no issue with rugging to varying degrees when common sense is used. I would be interested to know what those who are already rugging in a duvet with mw do once the show season is over and it's minus 10 at night...
 
Moomin1 said:
It would have to be a heck of a difference to rug in an unclipped healthy horse in a mw with duvet under....that kind of rugging would be in severe cold weather spells in my book, not anything above 2 degrees.

I have repeatedly said I have no issue with rugging to varying degrees when common sense is used. I would be interested to know what those who are already rugging in a duvet with mw do once the show season is over and it's minus 10 at night...
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I'd imagine they throw on another duvet?
 
Mongoose11 said:
Unclipped SF? I'd say that was fairly relative then if people are rugging a fully and freshly clipped horse at 7-1 degrees and you are rugging an unclipped at -8.
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Unclipped yes. None of mine are clipped as they don't compete over the winter. Mine all only have one rug each and they all live out 24/7. Mostly mine have Rambo M/Ws and those are the rugs they stay in all winter regardless of whether it's -8c or -40c.
 
Well I was keeping both of mine unrugged for as long as possible but last week when I got to the yard at 6.30am and went to bring them in from the field, the TB was clearly unhappy and shivering like a leaf. I've backed down and put a rug on her (she is only out at nights so doesn't wear anything when she is in the stable during the day) and she seems far happier now. I don't wanting her losing too much weight either. So if rugging my horse makes me a failure in your eyes then you really do need more to worry about in your lives.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Well I was keeping both of mine unrugged for as long as possible but last week when I got to the yard at 6.30am and went to bring them in from the field, the TB was clearly unhappy and shivering like a leaf. I've backed down and put a rug on her (she is only out at nights so doesn't wear anything when she is in the stable during the day) and she seems far happier now. I don't wanting her losing too much weight either. So if rugging my horse makes me a failure in your eyes then you really do need more to worry about in your lives.
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I am really unsure as to where anyone has said rugging is a failure?
 
Pasture Mix said:
I think you've hit the nail on the head; the people who fall into the trap of the "I'm cold so my horse must be too" mentality. I have to fight with myself to avoid this every winter because I really feel the cold, whereas my girls don't. I feel their ears/muzzles/bellies to try to gauge their body temperature better. I don't always get it right because, let's face it, neither does the weather man! :/
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I'm a wimp & wearing long sleeved tops, with a fleece/hoody & gilets in the morning. I mucked out tonight in a fleece, wax jacket & scarf.

My unclipped & hairy New Forest was out naked, is naked overnight & will be naked for most of the winter, all being well.

If there's prolonged rain and very cold temperatures he'll have a no fill/light weight turn out rug to protect from rain scald & a lightweight Thermatex over night when temperatures really drop. But I'm hoping he can remain naked most of the winter.

Just because I'm cold, it doesn't mean he is - lots of people seem to comment & think I'm mean when I'm wearing layers & my horse isn't! Funnily enough, when I had my old ISH, I got plenty of over rugged comments - he was a wimp & felt the cold! It seems you can't win :D
 
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Spring Feather said:
I own a number of European imported horses. I brought one with me. Loads of friends of mine have European imports. They all adapt and survive just fine. Loads of people clip their horses; it's really not as unusual as you have been led to believe. I don't clip; I have no need to as none of our horses compete in the winter.

I'm not sure what you mean by "My horses are used to a UK climate, and if it ever dropped below minus 10 here then they would both need a fair amount of rugging to cope with the temperature change"?
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Fair enough. But those clipped horses would certainly be rugged....which was my point really. My point was that over here, it doesn't reach those cold temperatures. So if it did, then I would certainly have to up their rugs as it would be much colder than they are used to... If it was that cold every winter then they would probably adjust to it...None of this is relevant of course as I don't intend to move to a cold climate and I don't base my rugging on what other people in different countries do. Frankly I don't tend to pay much attention to how other people rug, I go on my ponies needs and how warm/hot they feel, baring in mind that each horse is different and what suits one won't suit another. Other people can rug/not rug how they please....
 
NinjaPony said:
Fair enough. But those clipped horses would certainly be rugged....which was my point really. My point was that over here, it doesn't reach those cold temperatures. So if it did, then I would certainly have to up their rugs as it would be much colder than they are used to... If it was that cold every winter then they would probably adjust to it...None of this is relevant of course as I don't intend to move to a cold climate and I don't base my rugging on what other people in different countries do...
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Of course it goes without saying that if the UK suddenly plunged to -40, then the majority of our horses would require a heck of a lot more rugging than they do normally. That's not the issue. The issue is people over rugging in average UK temperatures.
 
Moomin1 said:
Of course it goes without saying that if the UK suddenly plunged to -40, then the majority of our horses would require a heck of a lot more rugging than they do normally. That's not the issue. The issue is people over rugging in average UK temperatures.
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I don't agree with making a horse uncomfortable and hot with rugs and strive to avoid that with my own ponies. Some people definitely take it too far. But equally, I dislike the holier than thou brigade who seem to think that fewer rugs= better care when actually, some horses do need rugging more than others. I don't think not rugging makes you any better than rugging, providing in both cases the horse is comfortable and happy. Besides, different horses require different rugs- my last horse was never clipped yet in the coldest spells needed a heavyweight and lightweight underrug or she shivered, as she grew no coat. My Connemara is fully clipped, and has never needed more than a heavyweight in the very coldest of temperatures. So I don't like to judge others on how they rug their horses because often you don't know the full story. Obviously some people overrug, but most people I know who rug do so sensibly...
 
NinjaPony said:
My point was that over here, it doesn't reach those cold temperatures. So if it did, then I would certainly have to up their rugs as it would be much colder than they are used to... If it was that cold every winter then they would probably adjust to it...None of this is relevant of course as I don't intend to move to a cold climate and I don't base my rugging on what other people in different countries do.
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Moomin1 said:
Of course it goes without saying that if the UK suddenly plunged to -40, then the majority of our horses would require a heck of a lot more rugging than they do normally. That's not the issue. The issue is people over rugging in average UK temperatures.
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But ... it is actually quite relevant. Your temperatures are exactly the same as ours at this moment in time. We've even been having the same amount of rain and hurricane type cold winds. Now, our summers are generally +35c most days, much hotter than the UK so our horses have to acclimatise to the cooler temperatures we are having right at this moment. And then they also have to further acclimatise to the sub-zero temperatures which start to arrive next month, and then they have to acclimatise once again when the temperatures fluctuate between -10c (which is the normal winter day in a normal winter, except last winter where it remained almost constant at -30c all winter!) and the odd few days where it goes down to -40c. And they manage this all in just the same M/W Rambo that was put on when it first got down to -8c. Do you see what I'm saying? No argument, just it doesn't make sense to me that anyone would be rugging their horses in H/W rugs when you are having exactly the same temps as us here.

PS. I'm talking unclipped horses btw. Clipped ones I accept may require extra.
 
Having seen a horse in a heavy fleec, sweating last month, I just can't understand the point. A summer sheet, fine, keeps the worst of the stable stains away, I suppose.
 
NinjaPony said:
I don't agree with making a horse uncomfortable and hot with rugs and strive to avoid that with my own ponies. Some people definitely take it too far. But equally, I dislike the holier than thou brigade who seem to think that fewer rugs= better care when actually, some horses do need rugging more than others. I don't think not rugging makes you any better than rugging, providing in both cases the horse is comfortable and happy. Besides, different horses require different rugs- my last horse was never clipped yet in the coldest spells needed a heavyweight and lightweight underrug or she shivered, as she grew no coat. My Connemara is fully clipped, and has never needed more than a heavyweight in the very coldest of temperatures. So I don't like to judge others on how they rug their horses because often you don't know the full story. Obviously some people overrug, but most people I know who rug do so sensibly...
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I haven't seen anyone ever say that fewer rugs are better, or that all horses shouldn't be rugged though? The conversation (or at least in my eyes) has centred on horses being rugged to stupid levels in temperatures which really shouldn't, by common sense alone, warrant it.
 
Moomin1 said:
I am really unsure as to where anyone has said rugging is a failure?
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Some people are very critical though, without knowing the other person's horse. Surely the person who owns the horse knows it best. Believe me, I wanted to keep the TB unrugged but when I saw her tucked up in a corner of the field shivering, I just knew she needed a rug, and she seems far happier now.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Some people are very critical though, without knowing the other person's horse. Surely the person who owns the horse knows it best. Believe me, I wanted to keep the TB unrugged but when I saw her tucked up in a corner of the field shivering, I just knew she needed a rug, and she seems far happier now.
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And if one of mine was standing in a corner shivering I would also put a rug on it. I think most people would :)
 
Spring Feather said:
But ... it is actually quite relevant. Your temperatures are exactly the same as ours at this moment in time. We've even been having the same amount of rain and hurricane type cold winds. Now, our summers are generally +35c most days, much hotter than the UK so our horses have to acclimatise to the cooler temperatures we are having right at this moment. And then they also have to further acclimatise to the sub-zero temperatures which start to arrive next month, and then they have to acclimatise once again when the temperatures fluctuate between -10c (which is the normal winter day in a normal winter, except last winter where it remained almost constant at -30c all winter!) and the odd few days where it goes down to -40c. And they manage this all in just the same M/W Rambo that was put on when it first got down to -8c. Do you see what I'm saying? No argument, just it doesn't make sense to me that anyone would be rugging their horses in H/W rugs when you are having exactly the same temps as us here.

PS. I'm talking unclipped horses btw. Clipped ones I accept may require extra.
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I'm not advocating putting heavyweights on at these temperatures- mine won't be in heavyweights until it is much colder. But I don't think that all horses respond in the same way. Some might be fine with fluctuating temperatures, some will need rugging. I know plenty of older/arthritic horses like mine that need more rugs than others. So I do see your point, but I also think that horses have to be treated as individuals and they can't all wear the same rugs at the same time, unclipped or not- I don't think that's what you are saying, but it is something that I have come across and disagree with.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Some people are very critical though, without knowing the other person's horse. Surely the person who owns the horse knows it best. Believe me, I wanted to keep the TB unrugged but when I saw her tucked up in a corner of the field shivering, I just knew she needed a rug, and she seems far happier now.
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That's fair enough and understandable. I can't speak for other posters obviously but my issue is with the likes of people putting mw's and duvets on a healthy unclipped horse in average temps that we are experiencing right now, purely for aesthetic reasons/personal gain.

If a horse is a poor doer/elderly/ill etc, and actually requires that level of rugging (though god knows, I have yet to come across any that require a mw and duvet in these temps) then that's a different kettle of fish completely.
 
Moomin1 said:
That's fair enough and understandable. I can't speak for other posters obviously but my issue is with the likes of people putting mw's and duvets on a healthy unclipped horse in average temps that we are experiencing right now, purely for aesthetic reasons/personal gain.

If a horse is a poor doer/elderly/ill etc, and actually requires that level of rugging (though god knows, I have yet to come across any that require a mw and duvet in these temps) then that's a different kettle of fish completely.
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When I was out riding in August, I went past a field which had two horses both in full neck Premier Equine turnouts - I'm pretty sure the rugs had fill in them as well - you can just tell the way the rug is lying on the horse.....at that point, I must admit, I turned critical :)
 
Moomin1 said:
That's fair enough and understandable. I can't speak for other posters obviously but my issue is with the likes of people putting mw's and duvets on a healthy unclipped horse in average temps that we are experiencing right now, purely for aesthetic reasons/personal gain.

If a horse is a poor doer/elderly/ill etc, and actually requires that level of rugging (though god knows, I have yet to come across any that require a mw and duvet in these temps) then that's a different kettle of fish completely.
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There we are in agreement :) Luckily I am yet to meet anyone who overrugs in that way, I can't ever imagine it being cold enough for my two to need a duvet, but then again mine are good doers.
 
NinjaPony said:
But I don't think that all horses respond in the same way. Some might be fine with fluctuating temperatures, some will need rugging. I know plenty of older/arthritic horses like mine that need more rugs than others. So I do see your point, but I also think that horses have to be treated as individuals and they can't all wear the same rugs at the same time, unclipped or not- I don't think that's what you are saying, but it is something that I have come across and disagree with.
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I have 50 horses on my farm and except for a couple (my 37 year old and one of my TB broodmares) they all wear the same weight blanket all winter. The two mentioned above do get chilly so they wear a stable rug underneath when it gets to the super-freezing temperatures but they are fine in just their one M/W turnout when it's just a normal winter of -10c daily. So I'm not so sure there really is a *huge* difference between horses if you go by my findings here with the fairly large amount of 'guinea pigs' so to speak, that I deal with. However there is a difference between those horses who live in or live out. All horses on my farm live out and they certainly do much better heat-wise than those who I have ever had living in over here. If anyone asks to have their horse come into the stables then I tell them they will need at least another 1 rug, probably 2 as it is much colder with only a handful of horses stuck in my stable block versus the big open barns where the whole herd can go in and warm up if they wish to.

Good discussion btw :)
 
NinjaPony said:
There we are in agreement :) Luckily I am yet to meet anyone who overrugs in that way, I can't ever imagine it being cold enough for my two to need a duvet, but then again mine are good doers.
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Well tbh, I hadn't met anyone who over rugs to that extent - it certainly made my jaw drop reading the post on this thread..
 
Over rugging annoys me like anyone else, but the horse might well be underweight or old etc... There might be a genuine reason for it to be wearing a heavy rug.
 
Spring Feather said:
I have 50 horses on my farm and except for a couple (my 37 year old and one of my TB broodmares) they all wear the same weight blanket all winter. The two mentioned above do get chilly so they wear a stable rug underneath when it gets to the super-freezing temperatures but they are fine in just their one M/W turnout when it's just a normal winter of -10c daily. So I'm not so sure there really is a *huge* difference between horses if you go by my findings here with the fairly large amount of 'guinea pigs' so to speak, that I deal with. However there is a difference between those horses who live in or live out. All horses on my farm live out and they certainly do much better heat-wise than those who I have ever had living in over here. If anyone asks to have their horse come into the stables then I tell them they will need at least another 1 rug, probably 2 as it is much colder with only a handful of horses stuck in my stable block versus the big open barns where the whole herd can go in and warm up if they wish to.

Good discussion btw :)
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I would definitely agree with your findings about stabled horses. My ponies nearly always need more rugs when stabled overnight then when they are out moving around during the day.
 
moomin1 said:
there is no problem rugging a clipped horse. There's no problem rugging any horse provided it actually requires it, and to the level it requires it. But whacking duvets under mw's whilst unclipped, in current temperatures (and i don't care what excuse anyone gives, or how much they will say the horse isn't uncomfortable) is ludicrous to the extreme. The argument that horses in canada have been brought up and raised in cold environments is a moot point - because the majority of horses here have been bred and raised in this country, in these temperatures, therefore they are accustomed to these temperatures (as the horses in canada are accustomed to their temperatures) should not require a duvet under a mw at this time of year whilst unclipped and healthy in all other respects. In fact, in all the unhealthy/emaciated/skeletal horses i have come across (and that's many) i don't think any of them would require anywhere near that level of rugging.
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wind your neck in moomin
 
Highly sanctimonious post. Unless the horse if clearly struggling, leave alone. As others have said you don't KNOW why the horse is being rugged like this. Old yard less then 4 miles away has some in HW already. My horse is still in a 100 gram and is clipped. One yard is in top of a hill and exposed one is in a valley.

Had a man comment as one of my staffords is already sporting a thermatex. I did take issue. Said dog has a thyroid issue and as she gets older really struggles with the cold.
 
Moomin1 said:
That's fair enough and understandable. I can't speak for other posters obviously but my issue is with the likes of people putting mw's and duvets on a healthy unclipped horse in average temps that we are experiencing right now, purely for aesthetic reasons/personal gain.

If a horse is a poor doer/elderly/ill etc, and actually requires that level of rugging (though god knows, I have yet to come across any that require a mw and duvet in these temps) then that's a different kettle of fish completely.
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The fact that my pony has still got a thin summer coat and no winter coat coming through means he still has to be rugged like an unclipped horse does. If he was sweating and uncomfortable im not going to keep him in it.

What are you? The anti rug police???
 
the point is though that yes,99% of horses could do with less rugs IF they were allowed and encouraged from the first nippy day of autumn, to grow a big thick winter coat.

however,99% of people actually want to RIDE the *******(shock horror) so to encourage a monster coat is pointless as it will then need clipping off more frequently/earlier anyway.

if all you want to do is stand and admire how great nature is and how wonderfully you have cultivated your horses fur then be my guest, but i buy them to ride, to work, to enjoy.

so shoot me for rugging in order to be able to do that, i aint paying through the nose to stand and admire fur balls cavorting round the field...........
 
I have to say that I've followed C&M's story on this forum and another and can honestly say that the horse is the apple of their eye and I am sure they wouldn't do anything to compromise his health

Putting a duvet under a rug isn't something I would do but I think we have to have trust that experienced owners know their own horse, if C&M was a novice I would be offering advice but they aren't.
 
I turned my horse out last night thinking it was going to be a mild evening. She had her 70g on. Went out to check her last thing and she was cold so put her 200g and she was still only just warm enough this morning. She is fully clipped.

I have turned her out today in her 70g as there is no wind and its sunny although fresh.
Seriously horses for courses!! She is the first horse I've had who isn't hot!! I usually use a 200g all through the winter and its fine. I have a 400g which I use very rarely. I imagine I'll be using it a lot this winter with the precious pony. That's something I never imagined I'd do so it just goes to show - you know your horse and you rug it accordingly (hopefully!!).
 
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