HELP - Bitting

[Hodgson94]

Need some fellow ‘cob’ owners advice!
I have a 16.2 beast of a maxi cob. I am really struggling to find a snaffle bit (dressage Legal) that he is happy in. We jump in a Pelham (bombers happy tongue) which he loves and has a lovely soft and light contact with no issues at all. He really respects this bit.

In a snaffle, he will yank, pull, cross his jaw and tank off or just be very very strong and heavy in my hands.

I’ve previously had Horse Bit Fit out, which did help, but i feel we are getting worse fast now he has grown again.

We have tried:

Bombers eggbutt happy tongue snaffle - recommended by horse bit fit and the best we’ve used but still have all of the above issues
Bombers loose ring happy tongue
NS turtle top eggbut & loose ring
NS turtle tactio loose ring & Baucher
NS verbindend loose ring & D ring
Bombers ultra comfy lock up eggbutt
Bombers ported barrel eggbutt
Myler low port comfort Baucher
Rubber eggbutt with lozenge

My horse hates a loose ring, he likes to feel supported and doesn’t like a lot of movement in his mouth so if possible please no loose rings. He was in a single jointed eggbut when I bought him from a hunt yard, I normally don’t like single jointed, but does anyone think this is what he might actually like?

Is there anything anyone would suggest? I am planning on getting HBF out again if needs be but there are only so many bits they carry that they approve so only 1 or 2 more left I could try from them.

I know that a lot of these issues will improve with schooling but it is very difficult to school him when he isn’t comfortable and is constantly fighting with me. We do lots and lots of transitions and circles/ turns etc which helps to some extent, but he genuinely is not happy in his mouth with any snaffle I have tried, he seems to really like the action of the Pelham and the way it sits in his mouth.

Saddle is fine, teeth back etc are regularly checked and bridles are also fine. Currently riding flat in a micklem but I would ideally like to be in a plain cavesson.

Any advice appreciated!

Thank you

 

[Hodgson94]

Must add he has a large tongue and a fleshy mouth!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Myler 33 hanging cheek and an (old fashioned) drop noseband? The latter not fitted too tight?
Once you get a bit to suit, you could then try reverting to a cavesson?

Edit.. B Fuzzy got very unhappy in the bomber loose ring and the bomber eggbutt happy mouth bits, so I popped a Mullen mouth Pelham in for a while.
Shes much more balanced now as have put in a vast amount of flat work, so now in a French link fulmer with a loose drop noseband, which works well at present.

 

[Hodgson94]

Myler 33 hanging cheek and an (old fashioned) drop noseband? The latter not fitted too tight?
Once you get a bit to suit, you could then try reverting to a cavesson?

Thank you, would I be right in saying the micklem kind of works like a drop? He is better in the micklem so that’s maybe why... thanks will look at that bit now. X

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Thank you, would I be right in saying the micklem kind of works like a drop? He is better in the micklem so that’s maybe why... thanks will look at that bit now. X

I have added to my post above x

 

[Hodgson94]

Myler 33 hanging cheek and an (old fashioned) drop noseband? The latter not fitted too tight?
Once you get a bit to suit, you could then try reverting to a cavesson?

Edit.. B Fuzzy got very unhappy in the bomber loose ring and the bomber eggbutt happy mouth bits, so I popped a Mullen mouth Pelham in for a while.
Shes much more balanced now as have put in a vast amount of flat work, so now in a French link fulmer with a loose drop noseband, which works well at present.

Thank you. Did you have tongue issues as well? I’m wondering if I should try a French link as that’s something I’ve not yet tried

 

[Wheels]

What's wrong with single joints?

 

[Hodgson94]

What's wrong with single joints?

Nothing personal for me i always used them when I was a kid. I’ve just been told not to use them and go for something more curved or ported. Do you think a single jointed would benefit?

 

[Wheels]

Well that will depend on the horse still, there is a lot of misinformation about bits, especially single joints.

I like the JP korsteel bits with curved mouthpiece, you could try the full cheek or the loose ring snaffle, I know you said your horse doesn't like loose rings but it might be the combination of ring and mouthpiece that he hasn't previously got on with. The mouthpiece on these bits helps the horse to take a contact, the loose rings helps to stop leaning

 

[Hodgson94]

Well that will depend on the horse still, there is a lot of misinformation about bits, especially single joints.

I like the JP korsteel bits with curved mouthpiece, you could try the full cheek or the loose ring snaffle, I know you said your horse doesn't like loose rings but it might be the combination of ring and mouthpiece that he hasn't previously got on with. The mouthpiece on these bits helps the horse to take a contact, the loose rings helps to stop leaning

Thank you I will have a look at those ones.

 

[Kaylum]

French links are hideous things. If you look at the research done by ns. Hanging checks are brill for horses that do not like movement of a loose ring. Look at your bridle as well the less bulk the better. Also regarding the noseband no animals mouth should shut just to accept the bit but hopefully hbf person will have talked about bridles and nosebands.

 

[Hodgson94]

French links are hideous things. If you look at the research done by ns. Hanging checks are brill for horses that do not like movement of a loose ring. Look at your bridle as well the less bulk the better. Also regarding the noseband no animals mouth should shut just to accept the bit but hopefully hbf person will have talked about bridles and nosebands.

Hi, yes that’s why I would like him back in a cavesson. He is in a micklem at the moment and does appear to like it and go better in it however none of it is tight or strapping his mouth shut, he still evades and opens his mouth if he doesn’t like the bit. All of my brides have been checked by HBF and fit my horse. I was debating whether to try a hanging cheek again as it may sit in his mouth similar to his Pelham that he likes. The turtle top hanging cheek is a funny shape and he did not like that one at all unfortunately. May be worth exploring other ones it’s just finding the right mouthpiece

 

[C1airey]

If you’re dead set against a single joint, I’d try a full cheek happy tongue. You’d keep the mouthpiece and the solid feel in the cheek for him, just lose the poll pressure from the Pelham.

If the F/C happy tongue doesn’t work, I’d look for a slim single joint, again with a fixed cheek, ideally full.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Thank you. Did you have tongue issues as well? I’m wondering if I should try a French link as that’s something I’ve not yet tried

Yes we did, after getting teeth checked and done and chiro too. She seems to be very happy in it, as also confirmed by bitting co, and 2 v good friends who also are instructors at reasonable level.

French links are hideous things. If you look at the research done by ns. Hanging checks are brill for horses that do not like movement of a loose ring. Look at your bridle as well the less bulk the better. Also regarding the noseband no animals mouth should shut just to accept the bit but hopefully hbf person will have talked about bridles and nosebands.

And that's your opinion on the French link, which differs to mine, I prefer to go with what suits the animal in their mouth.
The drop noseband when correctly fitted does not shut the horses mouth to accept a bit, as agreed on by same instructors and bitting persons too It can be quite loose, rather like a correctly fitted martingale, and will only come into effect when the horse gets head beyond point of control.

 

[Hodgson94]

If you’re dead set against a single joint, I’d try a full cheek happy tongue. You’d keep the mouthpiece and the solid feel in the cheek for him, just lose the poll pressure from the Pelham.

If the F/C happy tongue doesn’t work, I’d look for a slim single joint, again with a fixed cheek, ideally full.

Thank you I’ll give that a try. I’m not against a single joint, I am debating if that’s maybe just what he likes. Do you think if I get a single joint it’s worth getting a curved one to lessen the nutcracker action?

 

[Regandal]

I’ve tried lots of bits, prior to getting a hbf consultation. Problem was a small mouth with fleshy cheeks and tongue. Turns out that the central lozenge thingy on various bits was digging into his tongue.
Now very happy in this one. Oh, and a new bridle (sob).

https://www.horsemanshipsaddlery.uk/ourshop/prod_6427632-Orbit-Hanging-Cheek.html

 

[C1airey]

Thank you I’ll give that a try. I’m not against a single joint, I am debating if that’s maybe just what he likes. Do you think if I get a single joint it’s worth getting a curved one to lessen the nutcracker action?

A curved single joint will sit easier over his tongue when you take up a contact on the reins, and as he likes the bomber, it’s probably a good idea to try mimic that shape. I wouldn’t worry about the ‘nutcracker effect’. The tongue is squishy and so long as you’re not hauling on him and there are no sharp edges at the joint, it shouldn’t pinch. Also, unless you pull the reins straight down towards the floor, it’s impossible to hit him in the palate with it. Do be careful if leading on the ground in a single joint though.

 

[Annagain]

You could be describing my boy - right down to being happy with the pelham and preferring the Micklem bridle. I have him in a Myler mullen mouth hanging cheek - it's the only dressage legal bit he's ever been happy in and despite being pretty mild he's always had brakes in it (unless he's doing something incredibly exciting when he wears a waterford gag) as he's not spending the whole time fighting it so when I use it he listens.
https://www.horsebitbank.com/hanging-cheek-mullen-barrel-274.phtml

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Sorry but I am totally ignorant of what and what isn't dressage-legal, but I am just offering my suggestion(s) having had a similar kind of horse to that which OP describes, i.e. cobby/heavyweight, and with a thick tongue and fleshy lips.

I found the French Link Rugby Pelham worked for him! You will have to get an additional plain headpiece, and it is helpful to get someone that knows how they should fit to help you to start with. The action of this is supposed to be similar to a double-bridle, but with only one bit. You need two reins (or you are supposed to have two reins!!).

It worked for him, particularly as he got older where he got very stumbly in a snaffle and this helped to hold him together a bit.

I tried a Waterford but this only made him fall out in front. I really do think that these sorts of heavy cobs go best in a curb bit, the action of the curb seems to be the best bit to place them where you need them to be.

Don't know whether a Kimblewick is dressage-legal? That's another one you could consider, I've just got a kimblewick french-link for my project mare.

It might just be a matter of finding a second-hand tack shop and buying up different bits which you see there, and finding out what suits yours best by trial and error, then selling back what you don't want and/or e-bay'ing it!!

Its a shame the Bit Fit people didn't really seem to provide a solution...... disappointing that.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Sorry but I am totally ignorant of what and what isn't dressage-legal, but I am just offering my suggestion(s) having had a similar kind of horse to that which OP describes, i.e. cobby/heavyweight, and with a thick tongue and fleshy lips.

I found the French Link Rugby Pelham worked for him! You will have to get an additional plain headpiece, and it is helpful to get someone that knows how they should fit to help you to start with. The action of this is supposed to be similar to a double-bridle, but with only one bit. You need two reins (or you are supposed to have two reins!!).

It worked for him, particularly as he got older where he got very stumbly in a snaffle and this helped to hold him together a bit.

I tried a Waterford but this only made him fall out in front. I really do think that these sorts of heavy cobs go best in a curb bit, the action of the curb seems to be the best bit to place them where you need them to be.

Don't know whether a Kimblewick is dressage-legal? That's another one you could consider, I've just got a kimblewick french-link for my project mare.

It might just be a matter of finding a second-hand tack shop and buying up different bits which you see there, and finding out what suits yours best by trial and error, then selling back what you don't want and/or e-bay'ing it!!

Its a shame the Bit Fit people didn't really seem to provide a solution...... disappointing that.

 

[Horsekaren]

We have recently had a play with bits on my cob, at the moment he is in the Parelli bridle and combination bit version of this Myler bit

https://a2bequestrian.com/33-myler-...spfahtcq0q3ti9p7ajujegtut0z0pidroca-uqavd_bwe

someone has mentioned it above. It has been a game changer for my cob, he is really soft in it, it has max tongue relief, id deffo recommend trialing one

 

[milliepops]

And that's your opinion on the French link, which differs to mine, I prefer to go with what suits the animal in their mouth.
The drop noseband when correctly fitted does not shut the horses mouth to accept a bit, as agreed on by same instructors and bitting persons too It can be quite loose, rather like a correctly fitted martingale, and will only come into effect when the horse gets head beyond point of control.

I agree, I tend to go towards lozenges as a first step for all my horses as I have a variety in the box to choose from, but I have one that rejected all the expensive NS/Sprenger bits I offered her and clearly chose a £10 french link as her bit of choice. No point telling her to read the manual

I also think a drop noseband is a great bit of kit, unlike the flash you can do them up fairly loose without it causing an issue.

 

[hattie2525]

Why don't you just try him back in what he came in? Regardless of that you like your horse might like something totally different and if he was hunting he would have had to have been pretty settled in the mouth, you might find your solution is a £9.99 eggbutt snaffle. If he likes a bit with little movement have you tried a mullen mouth snaffle? They sometimes create a 'dead' feeling in the mouth as there is no movement at all but some horses love them and they give good tongue space. With regard to drop nosebands, my personal opinion of them is that they were originally designed to hold the bit up and as still in the mouth as possible, not to strap the mouth shut as seems to be the more recent idea behind them, if correctly fitted they can be very useful bits of kit to encourage acceptance and softness in the mouth.

 

[Hodgson94]

I’ve tried lots of bits, prior to getting a hbf consultation. Problem was a small mouth with fleshy cheeks and tongue. Turns out that the central lozenge thingy on various bits was digging into his tongue.
Now very happy in this one. Oh, and a new bridle (sob).

https://www.horsemanshipsaddlery.uk/ourshop/prod_6427632-Orbit-Hanging-Cheek.html

Thank you for your reply

 

[Kat]

NS Demi Anky, single jointed but shaped so it doesn't have the nutcracker action.

I'd play with nosebands too, a drop or a grackle can actually be more comfortable for the horse, they don't have to be fastened tightly.

 

[Hodgson94]

NS Demi Anky, single jointed but shaped so it doesn't have the nutcracker action.

I'd play with nosebands too, a drop or a grackle can actually be more comfortable for the horse, they don't have to be fastened tightly.

Thank you does that just come in a loose ring? I use a grackle for jumping, it’s nowhere near tight enough but does stop him trying to cross his jaw so I totally agree with what you’re saying. Thank you