HELP! FRACTURED SHOULDER

I think you should consider putting him to sleep. He must be in a LOT of pain and to have to wait a week for a second opinion is cruel.
If you have it plated and he comes through a year's box rest , there are no guarantees that he won't be in some discomfort from the plating (people often experience pain after bone plating).
He is only 2 and if this is due to arthritis it is very likely he will get arthritis in other joints too.
I know you aren't convinced it is arthritis, but I presume the vet having looked at the X ray thought it was.
 
I think people often just say what they would do in that situ too though. Its the fact that there is arthritis.. at 2.. and a fracture in the same area which bothers me.
 
ester said:
It matters because, depending on the state of the arthritis it may well make it more likely to have more fractures in the future/poor healing of this injury.

OP in the original post you state the option is to plate and 12 months box rest, but later you say that it is a small fracture/chip and you can box rest and not plate :confused:

I am also not 100% sure what a 2nd opinion would do, apart from maybe be confirmatory if both the fracture and arthritis are clear on x-ray.

I have to say if he was mine he would be pts.

(it was also my understanding that bute and minis didn't get on well together)
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I understand that - I meant that he has a fracture, whatever the reason, which is the main issue. Although now it seems it may be a chip rather than a major fracture, which is how I read it in the first post, which does maybe change the prognosis for THIS injury.

As you say though, if it is caused by arthritis, then it may well happen again. If not, and the first vet was wrong... Yes, second opinion to find out for sure what is going on :)
 
Poor little chap, if the fracture is not too bad then I would see how he goes for a short time, you will know if he is in extreme pain, but I would also be worried if he has arthritis this badly at such a young age. Good luck with him xx
 
Not quite the same but my boy fractured his elbow and has now got a plate and 14 screws holding him together. This happened October last year. He was in hospital for a month and then on complete box rest for another 6 weeks when he came home. After that was a slow recovery of me walking him in hand and then a very small turnout area which increased over time.

It was a very long road of recovery (and an expensive one) but whilst there was the slightest chance for him he would have it. Judging by how he is when he is out hacking Now I would do it all again if I needed too as you would never know anything was wrong with him.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
At his age I would give him a chance.
I think you are correct in getting a second opinion.

The one thing I would do is to get him on comfrey - either the leaves or the grated root. The old name for comfrey was Knit Bone because it aids bone healing.
He will have to be box rested.

I have had two horses in my care that had broken shoulders, the second was a young horse and he went on to win several Point to Points the other was a much older horse and although he looked as if he was coming sound, a degenerative bone disease set in and he had to be shot.
 
mkc_uk said:
You seem to be very quick to right him off, and the suggestion of him being PTS without a second opinion and replace him with another is not something I am considering. I understand you have a metal plate which causes you pain. Yogi does not, and I am not going down that route, he has a slight fracture/chipped bone - it is not the same thing!
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If you only wanted comments from people who would tell you to keep him alive against your vet's advice, then you should have told me and I would not have wasted my time posting.

And please make your mind up. Is his shoulder chipped or fractured, you said fractured for congenital reasons and thats a world away from "chipped". And if you don't intend to plate why did you not say so, instead of asking if anyone had any experience of a plated bone in a horse?

I would personally have this pony put to sleep and save another one from going into a tin instead of keeping alive an ornament who will likely be at risk of continuing pain.

But that's me. You don't want that advice. Fine. But please don't get at me for giving it to you when you posted on an open forum asking what people would do, and then changed two significant bits of information after I responded.
 
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cptrayes said:
If you only wanted comments from people who would tell you to keep him alive against your vet's advice, then you should have told me and I would not have wasted my time posting.

And please make your mind up. Is his shoulder chipped or fractured, you said fractured for congenital reasons and thats a world away from "chipped". And if you don't intend to plate why did you not say so, instead of asking if anyone had any experience of a plated bone in a horse?

I would personally have this pony put to sleep and save another one from going into a tin instead of keeping alive an ornament who will likely be at risk of continuing pain.

But that's me. You don't want that advice. Fine. But please don't get at me for giving it to you when you posted on an open forum asking what people would do, and then changed two significant bits of information after I responded.
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Yes I realise I have posted on an open forum, but no where in my post do I ask what anyone what they would do. I asked if anyone knows about arthritis and would it be suddenly noticeable. I have just had a huge shock and am needing to find as much information as possible, hence coming on a forum. The xrays were taken 2 days ago at lunch time and I received the phone call at 6.00 pm with the results. The vet said it was bad news. She said the x-ray showed a fracture to the shoulder and a slightly chipped bone. She then said it was probably arthritis because it is common in miniatures. She then went on to talk about having metal plates put in which is not something I wish to do. Being told this over the telephone is a lot to take in which is why I he is being referred to a second vet.
 
mkc, sorry to hear about your little mini :) you must be going through hell at the moment. his size is going to be a good thing as he wont have the same weight ratio that a large horse would have, so hopefully the second opinion will be better news and at least a little clearer for you to make a decision about the next steps.

You are right to only give your pony bute every other day. i had nearly 18months of using but with my one of my mini's (he had laminitus due to cushings on and off during this period) he was only allowed 1/2 a sachet every other day, vet said it is due to clearance of the drug from their system being slower and therefore the drug stays active in their system for longer, so he should get the full benefit for the time in between doses.

I have another shettie, a little mare who has deformities in her hock and hip joints, she walks very wierdly but the vets say she's fine, again her weight is a bonus as there isnt as much pressure on the joints to cause problems in the short term for her (she was born with the problem and is now 7 and still sound)

hopefully box rest and some TLC over time will show some improvement for your little man, your vet will give you guidance on when/if its time to say good bye so be guided by them, you and they are best placed to make that decision, in the meantime make his boxrest as pleasant as possible with lots of toys/stable mirrors/ one to one attention :)

best of luck and keep up posted on his progress
 
Sadly I lost the horse of my Dreams to this, He did it in his stable was meant to come home ( after being at the vet's for 8 week's) but was let down by the nurse's at the vet's and the infection went to his bone. I will keep my fingers crossed for your little man. If you want to know anything or see pictures just Pm me.

This is no help what so ever but I have been through it and its bloody horrid.

Gemma
 
My mare fractured her shoulder on a fence post and 20 yrs on she is fine. She was on 3 months box rest with a low level of bute and a high dose of antibiotics but she did have a huge hole in the shoulder!
 
My tb fractured his radius (just above his knee) 2 yrs ago - probably a field kick. It was a bad fracture (6 inches long) but possibly an easier place to heal than a shoulder.

He spent 10 weeks cross tied at the vets, then another 4 months I think box rest, then into a small paddock etc.

Two years on he is 'better' but is stiff now it's getting colder and struggles with his legs some days. He is 19 in march.

When he was injured we thought a day at a time, and just wanted him better. It was a very hard year and he was an amazing patient, but if I had to make the decisions again I'm not always sure if it was the right one. His year almost of box rest has really taken it's toll on him and now he's older he is going to struggle with the cold etc. We are of course so happy he survived and got better but I don't know how hard this winter is going to be for him now.
 
I think that your decision will be informed by the opinion of the second vet. If similiar to first vet, the questions will be what treatment, for how long and with what likely outcome. Arthritis very sad in such a young animal. So sorry you and the pony are faced with this. I know you will make the best decision for him, given the information you receive. Lots of hope and love to you and him.
 
if it is arthritis that has caused the fracture i would PTS. he ie young and arthritis is degenerative. wouldnt be fair on the poor chap.

if its not caused by arthritis i would box rest. my boy was on box rest for a year and he coped fine.
 
I found my mare in the field with a fractured shoulder when she was 4, it was terrible and I thought she would be pts, they operated on her and although there was some loose bone left in there after recovery you would never know it had happened, she is 19 now and has other problems but that old fracture has never affected her,
 
KSR said:
My WB mare was a SJ and broke her shoulder a few years ago.. I bought her from a friend of a friend for £1 the week she was being shot.. Perhaps I was taken advantage of, perhaps not..

Previous owner didn't opt for surgery but she was cross tied and box rested for several months.. Apparently they were told she would never work again and she ended up underweight and very anxious..

I decided to take her on and turn her away for a year.. If she deteriorated, PTS, and if she healed or was completely retired, bonus for her..

Three years on, she is one of the lucky ones, and I'm glad I could offer her a home when she needed it..

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Whatever you decide will be best for your little one, I'm sure..
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This is an amazing story - thank goodness there are people like you in the world! So glad you posted this to me! :)
 
Farma said:
I found my mare in the field with a fractured shoulder when she was 4, it was terrible and I thought she would be pts, they operated on her and although there was some loose bone left in there after recovery you would never know it had happened, she is 19 now and has other problems but that old fracture has never affected her,
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This is what happened to Yogi, I went to bring him in and he was suddenly limping, I am convinced it was caused by a rabbit hole. He loves tearing around the paddock at high speed when playing with the big horses next door. They rub noses through the fence, then he goes off on a mad pelting around the paddock. So I feel he has damaged it in that way, sometimes he had hardly stop when he reaches the other end, or turns so sharply.

Anyway, I would like to know what did the operation consist of. Does she have a metal plate? and did she spend 12 months on box rest as I have been told?
 
Oldenburg27 said:
Sadly I lost the horse of my Dreams to this, He did it in his stable was meant to come home ( after being at the vet's for 8 week's) but was let down by the nurse's at the vet's and the infection went to his bone. I will keep my fingers crossed for your little man. If you want to know anything or see pictures just Pm me.

This is no help what so ever but I have been through it and its bloody horrid.

Gemma
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Hi Gemma

I am so sad to hear that. xxx
 
It could well have been caused by tearing around but if there is arthritis there he is not liable to make the full recovery that the other horses on this thread have made. A degenerative condition is going to weaken his joints and cause pain on top of the existing fracture and chip. If you want a second opinion get it sooner rather than later but at 2 showing signs of arthritis I would be slow to consider operating
 
shysmum said:
OMG HE IS GORGEOUS !! Even hubs is cooing (takes a lot !).

I adore minis, and miss the one I used to look after sooo much, even after all this time.

Whatever happens, HHO's will be here to support you and your little guy. x
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Thank you yes he is! He is my first equine and I am hooked. He follows me around like a dog, he goes out for walks with me and loves everyone he meets. You have made me laugh with your comment about hubs :) I will let everyone know what happens with the second opinion and take it from there.

Thank you for all your support x
 
amage said:
It could well have been caused by tearing around but if there is arthritis there he is not liable to make the full recovery that the other horses on this thread have made. A degenerative condition is going to weaken his joints and cause pain on top of the existing fracture and chip. If you want a second opinion get it sooner rather than later but at 2 showing signs of arthritis I would be slow to consider operating
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Yes I do take your point which is why I need to know what has caused it. I have a full list of questions for the vet. One of which is how do they determine if the fracture is arthritis or injury? as that hasn't been explained to me. I would have thought that arthritis would start to show as stiffness? The second opinion is on Monday, the first we could get as it is the weekend. Thanks.
 
Agree totally with Amage I'm afraid.
If it is not arthritis, I would still be very wary of enforcing such a long box rest on a young animal as that is no quality of life and to me, that quality of life is the most important thing and I would feel very selfish to put a youngster through it for that long just for me.
 
Whilst the original problem may come right with box rest , often other problems can result from standing in for such long periods. Hope all goes well for you.
 
mkc_uk said:
My mini shetland had an x-ray on his right shoulder which shows he has a fracture due to arthritis. I have been told that this would have been hereditary. An option would be to have a metal plate put in and he would have to be box rested for 12 months after which they are not sure how he would cope and likened it to someone having a wooden leg. He would probably walk by swinging his leg outwards. He is only 2. Does anyone have any experience of this?
Also following on from above, vet suggests the kindest thing would be to have him put down. I am heart broken. The xray was taken yesterday and he is on bute for pain. If anyone has heard of this before any info would be greatly appreciated.

It was mentioned that he could have steriod injections but the vet wasn't prepared to do this as it can trigger laminitus.
I am having a second opinion next week as I am not convinced with the diagnosis. The other shoulder was x-rayed and looks fine. I wonder if anyone knows if arthritis would be sudden, as my thoughts were he had twisted his leg in a rabbit hole (something which I am constantly filling in). Thanks for reading, this is my first post and I am a complete newbie.
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Does anyone have any experience of steriod injections for their ponies? The vet did mention this as an option instead of an op, where they inject into the bone which will gives instant relief and may need to be repeated after a couple of months. She mentioned something about it increasing laminitis but I will have to speak with her in more depth about it. He doesn't have laminitus.
 
Steriod injections can and have caused secondary laminitus - but also if the horse in more weight bareing on his other front fore, for a long period - this could also induce laminitus in the "good " hoof.

We have one horse on the yard whom got lami from steriod injections - he does not have a life i would want for one of mine, but the owner is happy she has him - so i wont comment further.

Is the first vet a equine vet? and trust me i have no qualms about getting opinions from other vet practices and a good practice will share the x rays with the new one - but some places x rays are not as good as others i.e. the do not put correct markers on the plates to allow for diagnosis - this is especailly relevant in any hoof x rays
 
Wagtail said:
But 12 months strict box rest is too long IMO for any horse, unless you can build him some kind of enclosure surrounded by his friends.
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this. when my boy fractured his radius vet told me 6 months to a year on boxrest. after 4 months he was able to be turned out in a small paddock and 5 months i was able to start bringing him into work again.

id definitely get a second opinion, being so young and small i would have thought the healing would be easier.
 
My pony has had steroid joint injections into her hocks and fetlocks for arthritis several times. She is prone to laminitis (has been all her life) and has cushings now as well. However the vet explained the risks to me, explained what we would do to mitigate them and that she felt they were worthwhile for the benefits of the injections so we went ahead. Pony was completely fine after the injections. I was very very strict with her diet for several days, even more so than usual and she had no grass at all for the few days but it was worth it as she was much sounder and happier.
I was very lucky to have a vet who specialises in lamenesses who knows my pony very well.
 
If it was me, I think I would pts for several reasons. The impression I get from the op is that it wouldn't heal fully anyway, walking like he's got a wooden leg for the rest of his life is no way to live. My mare did 12mnths box rest at 18. Except she could walk in hand & after 6mnths could go in a tiny paddock, 12mnths in a stable I wouldn't do. She took a few weeks to learn how to be a horse again, as she had to be kept quiet she was limited to interacting over doors & fences. Ime the lack of socialization for a 2yr old on 12mnths box rest would be a disaster. And the difference between it being a result of an external injury versus internal cause means he may face a lifetime of problems & invasive treatment.
 
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