Help......how do you overcome a seriously nappy horse???

skychick

skychick

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Hi everyone, you may have seen some of my recent posts praising my my new horse!
Well......i have now had him 10 days and the problems have started.

When i got him he didnt settle at home, really distressed as it was too quiet. So after 2 days i moved him to a livery yard 1/2 a mile up the road and he settled straight away.
I hacked him out the next day and he went like a dream.
Each of the following days i rode him in the school as he was unshod and he was perfect alone and in company.
On monday night i had him shod...he was very good for the farrier and i went for a ride afterwards.
As we were coming down the lane he napped at the end, nothing serious, just turned around a couple of times i got him to walk forwards and we had a hassle free rest of the hack.
Yesterday however was a completely different story.....we got part way down the drive and he stopped, got his head down a bit, turned in a very tight circle and then bucked me off.....
I got back on and he did it again and bucked me off a second time. So i decided to lead him for a bit to see if he would walk on.....he was fine and i led him with ease for the next 1/2 a mile. I then tried to get back on and he did the same and i was buckd off for the third time.
As it was getting a bit dark i decided to lead him back (i know i shouldnt have done that, but i havent been riding much in the last coupple of years, before i had ridden constantly for 10 years so i felt that maybe i wasnt current enought to sit to his bucks)
When i got back to the yard, i decided to get on him again and go in the school as he has been perfect when i have been in there. He did the same again after 5 mins. At that point i got off and took him back to the stable.
When i tried him out at his previous owners i made sure i hacked him out alone and he was fine, not a sign of a nap or anything.
Today, my yard owner and my previous riding instructor and an extremely good, very knowledgablerider having been around horses all her life, she is well know in the area for her expertise tried riding paddy out. He started to nap in the yard, not even getting as far as the drive, eventually after a hell of a battle they got him going, but speaking to her tonight, she says that he has definatley done it before, as he has got a brilliant technique.
So, now what????
How can i overcome this? Is there any way of getting a horse to hack out if they get like this?
Any help, or personal experiences most welcomed.
 
No advice, except to say, you were very brave to keep getting back on as much as you did.
You must be so upset about this.
I'd seriously think about sending him back, or contacting the previous owners about this, but it is early days yet.
Have you hacked out in company?
Hugs
xx
 
if you rode him out alone from the old owner's yard i wouldn't be too quick to judge that he is a 'pro' napper who is practised in getting rid of people.

you need to work out very quickly whether he is doing it out of being insecure or if he is taking the piddle as you will need very different tactics in each case.

don't automatically jump to the conclusion he is being an ass on purpose- i took a horse on for re-schooling that apparently was a right sod, reared a lot, napped for Britain... he was absolutely fine with me as he needed his hand held not his bum smacked!

however, if he IS just trying it on it needs dealing with very quickly and very firmly.
 
I'd certainly build his confidence by taking him out in company for a few times so that he gets to know the route and comfortable with it. We taught D to hack on her own by putting a control headcollar over her bridle and leading her from the ground while I rode her. It gave us an extra level of control and she got confidence from having someone on the ground.
 
I havent yet, only because i havent been at the yard when anyone else has hacked out.
If i can go in a morning i can ride out with my instructor but i cant do that this week due to work, so i may have to try that next week.
He seems fine when you lead him out.
I just dont know what to do really. He was so lovely last week, the ideal pony. But this week it seems to be a different kettle of fish.

He hadnt been shod behind (only fronts) as his back feet didnt need shoes, do you think me putting shoes on his back feet could be contributing?
 
I really dont think it is a back problem, he is not cold backed and has showed no sign of any pain etc in the last 10 days and i have ridden him every day and he has seemed fine.

I was wondering about how effective he would be if he was lead out whilst i rode him. Does that work/help normally?
Would just leading him out from the ground helpif i did that for a while untill he knows the local area?

Millitiger, those are the questions i asked my self is it fear....or is it taking the p*ss.
This is why i got my instructor to ride him, she does tonnes of schooling/breaking etc so i wanted her opinion as to whether he was taking me for a ride (or not as the case may be!!!) or whether he was scared/nervous....she thinks he is taking the p*ss.

Is it a problem that normally can be overcome in time without necessarily using brute force?
 
There is some really good advice posted, but I would look at your confidence, you have just bought this horse and it's going wrong so the question is, is he right for you and what should you do to prevent loosing the confidence you have.
I'd go back to the seller - I haven't read your previous posts, but you need to do something before you or the horse get hurt.
If you decide to keep him, then you need to get him fully checked out (did you do a 5*vetting? with a blood test?) is his back and teeth ok, all the normal things and if this isn't something you can sort out yourself, bearing in mind you were going to keep him at home the horrible question is can you afford to keep him in livery and pay for help to get him sorted or even worse loose out if you have to sell him?
Sorry, but a lot of people end up with the wrong horse and don't enjoy it or loose their confidence as a result.

BTW we bought a seriously nappy horse for my husband, she is still nappy, we found out that she had been mistreated and in many homes before us, i made the decision to keep her as selling her would loose too much money and put other people at risk. I do ride her and consider myself quite confident but she even tests that quite often! He has another horse!
 
skychick said:
I just dont know what to do really. He was so lovely last week, the ideal pony. But this week it seems to be a different kettle of fish.
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Thats because he has been taken from somewhere where he was settled, moved twice, new owner (hence different communication), different environment, different equine company, strange water, different food, possibly different management, tack and routine, and so on......

Ten days is nothing! Your horses whole world has been totally changed, with no warning to him. It will take time and patience and you need to try to understand the situation from a horses point of view. Take it slowly, build his confidence and yours and you will progress.
 
Iconique, thank you for your post.
I didnt get him vetted.....i know thats going to get peoples backs up straiht away....but he was not a hideously expensive horse. I gave him a thorough check over, legs, the way he moved etc. I watched him walked and trotted up before and after excercise. I watched him ridden etc. He moved freely, no sign of pain, stifness etc. He had no lumps and bumps. So i didnt get him vetted. Previous horses i havent had vetted either.
I have got the vet booked to come out and check his teeth etc.
TBH....i really thought he was going to be perfect for me. We clicked as soon as i handled him and when i rode him it was fantastic. I couldnt have felt more confident on him. He is not strong, not particularly forward going, he has got a wonderfull jump and considering i hadnt jumped for ages.....i have jumped him on 4 seperate occasions and he has been perfect every time and given me all the confidence in the world to do things with him in the school etc.
So i think its just gonna take time etc. He really is a fantastic horse from all other points of view. Perfect to lead in hand, not strong or bargy, picks his feet up, is good to groom, catch, tack up etc.

Teddyt dont get me wrong i totally understand the upheaval he has had and hence i am trying to seek any advice possible i dont want someone to just come and ride him and beat him into walking down the road. I want to get it so that he trusts me and knows that i am only trying to take him out for some fun!

I really am thinking of leading him out tacked up for a while, going around the block to show him that when we go out....we have a nice time and then we go home etc.
Then start to ride him. But also do some hacks in company, see if he is alot better etc. If he is fine in company then i know that i have to work on getting him less insecure and make sure that i let his friend go ahead and he waits patiently, then i go ahead of his friend etc.
 
I agree, give him time to settle, everything has changed in his world and he will take time to get used to his new world and you. He may be a good napper, as well. The Old Appy could nap for Britain, she appeared very confident and bolshy, but actually needed to know that you were in control and could look after us both, otherwise she had to look after us, which meant she would take us both home! It took us two years for her to settle in and trust us and could even then decide that she knew best. Give him time.
 
There is nothing wrong with leading a horse in hand to help with napping. My new pony Herbie is very nappy even in company :confused: (I knew he had issues when i took him on but i didn't know how bad they where :() I have been posting updates on him i don't know if you have seen them but i am over coming his nappyness by getting off and leading him, if i try to beat him he would kill me. He is not a pony to have a fight with. I am firm with him in the fact that he has to walk on but when he does he gets lots of praise. He is getting better but it is taking time and we have good days and bad days.
I hope you find a way to help your horse but i think you should hack in company to help build his confidance and not ruin yours any more. Good luck.
 
Has he got new tack or anything?
Sounds like he has had a real turnaround in his behaviour. It will be interesting to see how he behaves after your instructor making him go up the road. He may give up & just go back to the horse he was last week.
If returning him isn't an option then maybe lower your expectations for a while till you have the measure of him.
The shoeing thing is interesting have you watched himn trot up to see if you feel he is still moving the same. Seems very unlikely but I agree it's worth being sure.
 
Are you riding him in the saddle your tried him in or is it a new saddle for him.

I had a horse who started napping quite seriously not long after I bought him. Fortunately he didn't buck but would either plant or try to spin. I found with him that growling at him as soon as I felt him 'drawback' and before he had actually napped worked for us. He became a great horse to hack and I like to think some of it was just a case of getting used to each other.
 
Our molly had been buted up to the hilt and it took about 10-14 days to work out of the system, she has problems with her back and neck, which we can never resolve but can work with. We work carefully within these refinements!

If you honestly think time will help then go with it, but from a legal point of view then make sure you have covered your bases. btw, we didn't vet her either, absolutely crazy, but then i have found a horse for a friend which we vetted, the vetting stopped at stage 2 (lunging) and we still bought, she has a completely sound horse (we've checked since) and paid significantly less for, but absolutely perfect for the person - vetting is a good indicator but not foolproof, its on the day at that time and when something feels right.........

Anyway if you really think it will work, then perservere (sp?) we've been through loads but can't face selling or someone else risking it, so understand your dilemma.

Please remember whatever you feel for the horse, safety comes first for you!! and much as we don't like it, another horse can be found, but you cant - quote from farrier when she jumped on the bonnet of our landrover!!
 
Thank you Laura, i have seen some of your posts and what you do with your horses is nothin oter than inspirational, you have done so well .
I am going to try and ride out in company next time i ride etc and do some inhand work and try and gain his confidence. Fingers crossed that will work.

Siennamum it is the tack he came with not new tack or antything like that and he was totally fine being ridden in it all last week.

It seems very coincidental that all of this started the day i had him shod.
He was barefoot when i got him as the girl hadnt been able to do much roadwork with him due to school and it being dark so she had his shoes taken off. Aparently she had always worked barefoot behind with shoes on fronts only.
So maybe he is not used to having back shoes on. I am half tempted to have his backs removed.

Eggs, that is good advice, as the noise prob distracts them.
 
skychick said:
He was barefoot when i got him as the girl hadnt been able to do much roadwork with him due to school and it being dark so she had his shoes taken off. Aparently she had always worked barefoot behind with shoes on fronts only.
So maybe he is not used to having back shoes on. I am half tempted to have his backs removed.
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May be I just have a suspicious mind but maybe they didn't hack him much because he did have prior rather than it being too dark to hack.

I can't think of any reason why having back shoes on should make a difference but it could certainly be worth trying without them. Hope you get this problem sorted out, especially as he seemed so ideal to begin with.
 
well 3 choices really
1 you return as not fit for the job intended (but you really ned to do this within 2 weeks of getting him)
2 you battle through this. i think (my opinion) it is taking the p and needs a firm whack
3. if you wanted a dog to lead around you could have got one cheaper than the pony.
if you decide to battle through, and go through the 'he hasnt quite settled' 'might be his back teeth feet' route you will have NO right to any comeback from the sellar.
 
You haven't had new horsey very long, and so I would think you need to build your relationship. Hack out with company first, so he knows the routes and learns to trust you. Then ask him to lead, then leave his friends etc until you are out alone.
It's taken me nearly 2 years to get my horse to hack out alone, and even now we have the odd nap. Incidentally he also bucked me off a good few times when I first got him, thankfully in the school - I really do think the new environment blew his mind. He stopped doing it after one night when he threw me, I got so angry I chased him round the school shouting! Not good horsemanship but it had the desired effect.

Either that or send him back asap. tbh I wouldn't be able to cope with bucking on a hack, imagine if he threw you into the path of a car? Same thing happened to my aunt on her new horse, she cracked a vertebra. Not worth the risk imo.
 
ofcourseyoucan said:
2 you battle through this. i think (my opinion) it is taking the p and needs a firm whack
3. if you wanted a dog to lead around you could have got one cheaper than the pony.
QUOTE]

Point 2- oh yes, give an obviously unsettled horse a firm whack, that will solve everything.
Point 3- very helpful

:rolleyes:
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I argee with ofcourseyoucan. Personially i think that it sounds like he has done it before. If it was just taking the piss or insecure he wouldn't have gone to the extreeme of bucking you off more than once. If you don't nip it in the bud now he will carry on doing it. If you are trying to build your confidents then this is not going to help. I would contact the seller asap and explane the situation, the horse was not sold for the perpouse it was intended for. I can't help but think that the horse is only going to get worse and it will take some serious sorting out. This is not what you want, you want a horse to enjoy and have fun on. I hope it all turns out okay.
 
Then you both know zilch about horse behaviour! Posts like yours really p1ss me off tbh, they show a complete lack of understanding and are exactly why there are so many screwed up horses out there. The horse cant talk and can only express his feelings through behaviour. The horse was distressed and was then moved again a couple of days later. He is insecure (understandably - except to some) and doesnt want to leave the yard, hence the bucking etc. Unwittingly the OP was asking too much of the horse- he couldnt cope, hence he bucked her off to remove the stress and extra pressure being put on him. The demands returned so he bucked the rider off again- and so on.

I dont see anything wrong with leading the horse out, hacking with company, etc. That is exactly what the op should do to build the horses confidence in its new surroundings and learn to communicate with each other. Then the horse will behave differently.

All the horse needs is understanding from his point of view- not a good whack with a bl**dy whip. How about if i take you without warning and dump you in india where you dont understand the language, food, surroundings. then whip you when you dont do as you're asked? Hardly fair is it? And im sure it wouldnt take you long to have a go back.
 
Thank you all for your comments.

Lastnight i managed to get in contact with the owner who owned him before the person i bought it from.
Alot has come to light since talking to her. She owned him for 3 to 4 years, and did alot with him. She had this problem when she first had him but said that it only happened once and she basically caught him before he bucked, turning him tightly untill he stopped then got him to go on and then she said he was fine after that, he had his odd moments but was fine. She used to hack him alone and in company and did all sorts with him, xc, showjumping, BSJA, fun rides etc, and won alot with him at local level.

She was in contact with the person she sold him to in August 2009. The girl stopped riding him in Dec 2009 because she was scared of him but would not say why.

She told me how she used to let a 10 year old hack him etc and she had a great relationship with the horse.
She said that an owner before her ad been in contact when they saw the advert for him from the girl who sold him to me, and apparently he has had ALOT of owners in the past, before Tamsin who had him for 3 to 4 years.

I just dont really know what to do now tbh....i know i am not going to get anywhere with trying to get his previous owner to take him back.
The horse last week was anyones dream horse.
I know i have only owned him less than 2 weeks but this is quite a serious issue if i cant get him out of the yard and if he is going to start this behavious in the school.

Tonight i was going to try him again in the school to see if i get anywhere, and then try to hack him out with others to get him to know the local area.
The trouble is i cant rely on always hacking out with others as due to the nature of my job i cant guarantee what time i will finish.

I can try the leading him out method.....i dont want to beat him or whip him, even if he is taking the p*ss as it is not fair on him.
But i want a horse i can ride and enjoy and i thought that was what i had bought.

:-S
 
If you have difficulty getting people to hack out with you, do you have a friend/OH/relative who would be happy to walk out on foot with you a few times whilst you try and sort the problem? As you say he is happy to be led, then he will probably be happy to follow someone on foot. You can start with them walking in front, and as his and your confidence grows, they can progress to walking behind until you reach the stage where you are both happy to go out alone. Keep the hacks short and sweet to start with, and stay in the school on the occasions where there is no one to go out with.

I would also ensure he gets plenty of turnout and cut out any cereal-based feeds from his diet and perhaps even try a calmer.
 
TeddyT completely agree with you.

So many people want a quick fix with their horses.

OP - don't whatever you do lose patience with him and 'get after him'as some have suggested.. Still very early days for you both, do what you have to do to keep yourself confident and bold - if that means leading him out inhand for sometime, do it. Don't think that if your horse isn't happily hacking out after 2 weeks in new ownership that there is something diabolically wrong with the horse or yourself. Get yourself into a routine with him, regular exercise etc and wait and see.
 
TGM and Blazing saddles thank you.
The only thing that worries me is that this seems to be a long term problem from what i gather talking to his old owners.
If he has done this alot and he is 12 years old is it likely that he can be cured of it?
 
skychick said:
The only thing that worries me is that this seems to be a long term problem from what i gather talking to his old owners.
If he has done this alot and he is 12 years old is it likely that he can be cured of it?
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They didn't think to tell you this before you bougth him:confused:
 
eggs said:
Are you riding him in the saddle your tried him in or is it a new saddle for him.

I had a horse who started napping quite seriously not long after I bought him. Fortunately he didn't buck but would either plant or try to spin. I found with him that growling at him as soon as I felt him 'drawback' and before he had actually napped worked for us. He became a great horse to hack and I like to think some of it was just a case of getting used to each other.
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ditto this
I got mine home (and in all fairness the owner had said she hadn't hacked so i dont hold it to her at all!), went to hack her out the first day and had her rearing, spinning, dropping her shoulder and cantering sideways back to her field. My first thoughts were oh my god, what have i got myself into! For the next week weeks hacking involved being stupid in the car park, and having a rear/nap several times along the drive and in random places... a few months on the is 100% to hack! never naps anymore! I think a lot of it is confidence, i know the diff between mine piss taking and being scared, she gets a hard slap if shes taking the pee and i instantly stop her, give her my hands and reassure her, then even if shes got her front legs off the floor she settles. i'd sometimes stand for a minute and just talk to her, then ask her to walk on.. and she'd go perfectly :) Sometimes it just takes time, I thought at first I'd have to send mine back but shes honestly a saint to hack now, new horses can just take time to settle :)

Good luck! :)
 
teddyt said:
Then you both know zilch about horse behaviour! Posts like yours really p1ss me off tbh, they show a complete lack of understanding and are exactly why there are so many screwed up horses out there. The horse cant talk and can only express his feelings through behaviour. The horse was distressed and was then moved again a couple of days later. He is insecure (understandably - except to some) and doesnt want to leave the yard, hence the bucking etc. Unwittingly the OP was asking too much of the horse- he couldnt cope, hence he bucked her off to remove the stress and extra pressure being put on him. The demands returned so he bucked the rider off again- and so on.

I dont see anything wrong with leading the horse out, hacking with company, etc. That is exactly what the op should do to build the horses confidence in its new surroundings and learn to communicate with each other. Then the horse will behave differently.

All the horse needs is understanding from his point of view- not a good whack with a bl**dy whip. How about if i take you without warning and dump you in india where you dont understand the language, food, surroundings. then whip you when you dont do as you're asked? Hardly fair is it? And im sure it wouldnt take you long to have a go back.
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Talk about generalising! Some horses DO need a good smack. I don't think nessacarily so in this case, but in a lot yes it is quite nessacary! Reassuring and talking to a piss-taking horse will only make it worse - its all part of their game!
Just to add, I've seen several nice horses RUINED by people taking the nicey nicey approach. Horses are animals, they are used to being in herd situations. They need to be put in their place BENEATH people, their mothers will kick them and bite them if they step out of line, so IMO a sharp smack from the rider (who should essentially be in charge) is really not a bad thing?
 
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