Help......how do you overcome a seriously nappy horse???

When I wrote my last post on this thread, I didn't see Shychick's update -well done! You should be really chuffed, what you have achieved is absolutely fantastic and a really uplifting post. :) *Pats back*
I apologise for my coming across too harshly ... my post wasn't directed at the OP and I now realise that it's quite O/T, as it isn't supposed to be specifically related to this thread but more about particular methods in general.
Anyone got any humble pie that I could gobble?
Not that it really matters now, but just to clarify, I in no way object to whips being used properly and thoughtfully.
 
Johnrobert, i have just chuckled to myself.....i rode paddy in the school lastnigh as before i take him out onmy own with no assistance i really wanted to work on making him move forwards off of my leg.....and all the way round i had in my head what my instructor used to say.."leg, leg, leg, tickle him up if necessary, leg leg leg"!!!!! it actually really works to visualise someone saying that to you! Although i can imagine any instructor goes to sleep saying it! But even adults do like the reassurance of such words, just so that it helps them focus on really working the horse off of your leg, which sometimes i think gets forgotten when you just aimlessly school without the watchfull beady eye of an instructor ;-)
 
Eggs, thank you very much. Its going to hopefully be slow but steady progress!
I have to admit i think the dressage whip is going to make all of the difference.....he really moves forwards even when you tickle him up with the dressage whip so it distracts him from spinning....but also like you say...its the not having to take your hands off of the reins when doing so that makes the whole thing more successfull....he is such a switched on pony that he senses the second you take your hand off of the rein and knows thats his chance to spin, so it really gets one over on him when he is tickled up gently but still keeping your hands on the reins!!!

I definately agree that they are good to carry out whilst hacking.
I never hack without a whip of some sort after when hacking with my old horse a dog ran out and really went for him and cut his leg open. I literally had to get off and kick the dog off of my poor horse as i didnt have a whip with me, and since then i have never hacked without one. They are as you say good for sticking out at cars so they dont get too close!

That bit about Linda Green shows that with perseverance you can get there in the end!.....although i dont think me and paddy are aiming for badminton ;-) well not just yet!!
 
Maisiemoo, i am really sorry to hear that you have had the same problem with your horse. It is really really upsetting isnt it that when you try the horse they behave perfectly and then things change so dramatically.
At least you are enjoying her in company and whilst you are doing that you are getting to know her really well and bilding confidence in each other, so when you do decide to take her out alone, she will hopefully trust you alot more and also you will know her and be more aware of how is best to handle her and tackle the issue.
There certainly isnt anything wrong with taking your time, i am doing the same, i could have tried to take paddy out on my own lastnight, but there was no one around and with all of last weeks excellent progress the last thing i would want to do is to take him out and him fight me all over again and win then we would be back to square one.
So i thought riding in the school getting to know him and getting him to work forwards and do as i say and what i wanted would be another constructive excercise, as we hadnt ridden in the school together since he tried to ditch me in there, so it was all another positive excercise, we both had fun, he listened to me and we did a bit of jumping and so it was all a good thing.
Keep persevering. There is certainly no rush to get your mare sorted so going about it in your own time should get the best results.
I have to admit.....i have poo pooed natural horseman ship in the past, but i think i am going to try to do some with my horse.
He has had so many owners in his younger days, and has only had one long term owner the rest have all been 6 months here, a year there etc that i really dont think he has the trust in people that he should for a horse of 12 years old, so i too am going to look into learning about how to connect with him a bit better so that he learns to trust me and that we get a really good bond together.
I certainly wish you all of the luck in the world that you and your mare get hacking out alone and that you have a fantastic relationship together.
 
Thank you puzzles, i am really pleased with him and really grateful to all of the wonderfull people around me that have helped no end in getting him this far. I certainly still have a long way to go but there is definately a lot more hope now!
 
Really glad you are making progress :D I absolutely can NOT ride my horse out alone without a dressage whip - kicking doesn't work with him, as soon as I feel him dropping behind the leg he has a swish with the whip and we keep moving forward...we also do a lot of trot to keep him thinking forwards! He doesn't spin and rear and buck like yours, he plants, which is incredibly frustrating, but carrying a dressage whip means you can act incredibly swiftly - it isn't a BAD thing to carry one, please don't let anyone make you think otherwise!
 
Thank you weezy. Oh dear, i used to ride a little 12.2 pony that i was schooling and riding for someone and he would do the same, would suddenly stop and plant himself in the road. He would stay there for ages too! you really had to try and catch him before he planted himself! its quite frustrating isnt it! trying to keep them straight, and going forwards is an art in its self i think unless you have got 2 pairs of hands!
I can see peoples point that as soon as "dressage or long whip" is mentioned they automatically worry about someone really beating a horse with it. But in the right hands i certainly see them as a positive reinforcement to the leg and now i can now see them as being a complete god send in dealing with a nappy horse. Thank you for your reassurance that a whip in the right hands is a positive thing.
 
Really pleased you are getting on so much better with your boy. Just skimmed through this post and can't see if anyone has asked the most important question (forgive me if you have already). Can we please see some pics? XX
 
Thank you CeeBee :-)
Pics are next on my to do list.
Unfortunately i havent got any yet of me riding him which is a shame. My partner has got all the photography equipment you could wish for, digital SLR cameras etc......but is allergic to horses.....(typical!) and my mum and dad arent too good with anything remotely as technical as a digital camera lol!!! But im working on it!!!
I do however have some of him from the ground!!
Could you tell me how you make your brilliant signatures....there are some really stunning ones.
 
I'd be inclined to say your horse is trying it on as all new horses do, but in any event I'd get his teeth/back/saddle checked. If your horse won't walk forward turn him and make him walk backwards towards the direction you want to go and everytime he stops or spins do this. He will soon get fed up off this game. I'd also hack out with others and gradually introduce him to shorter hacks on his own. My horse went from confident horse to nervous wreck overnight and yet I could never work out what went wrong. I have come to the conclusion that he does everything I could want a horse to do except for hack out on his own any distance so I no longer intend to ride on my own except for pleasure rides when he is fine on his own. Sometimes you have to compromise with horses unfortunately! He may have been fine when you tried him out before you bought him as he may have been buted up or slightly sedated with sedalin and you may not have realsied. Or it could have been that he felt comforatble with a short hack around the area but if you had gone any distance you may have found it was a different story.
 
Skychick - well done you!!!!!!!!! My mare was seriously nappy when I got her. I had just lost my previous horse to a broken leg and got Izzy a little on the rebound looking back. She wouldnt go off the yard at first so we rode out in company, gradually getting her to lead out. She had her moments but then she was ill so off work for about 2-3 months. I then found that I stopped trying to tick all the boxes that Holly filled and got to know my new horse properly. She got to know me and our relationship blossomed. We werent putting pressure on each other any more and all was more relaxed. Anyway, to cut it short, we progressed to doing small hacks to increasingly longer ones. Her confidence grew and she does listen to me, and my awful singing.!! I ride with a dressage whip and short rounded spurs (Mark Todd ones) which I do find makes my leg more effective and I dont have to flap my legs. Once is enough and suffice to say, my leg is hardly on her atall nowadays. She has done so well and we have had it all to do again on a smaller scale now Im bringing her back into work after a tendon injury and months of box rest. Its all like new to her again and our bond is so important, a bit like someone getting over agrophobia I guess. Just have to watch her when we see other horses in fields, if they run around she wants to as well and we do have the occasional bronc/boing on the spot in excitement. She trusts me and is doing so well and I am sure it will come right for you. You have some good helpers by the sounds of it and it will happen. Izzy does get a smack occasionally and I do think she tests me to see if Im still "boss".

Hope that helps and good luck with Paddy x
 
teddyt said:
Then you both know zilch about horse behaviour! Posts like yours really p1ss me off tbh, they show a complete lack of understanding and are exactly why there are so many screwed up horses out there. The horse cant talk and can only express his feelings through behaviour. The horse was distressed and was then moved again a couple of days later. He is insecure (understandably - except to some) and doesnt want to leave the yard, hence the bucking etc. Unwittingly the OP was asking too much of the horse- he couldnt cope, hence he bucked her off to remove the stress and extra pressure being put on him. The demands returned so he bucked the rider off again- and so on.

I dont see anything wrong with leading the horse out, hacking with company, etc. That is exactly what the op should do to build the horses confidence in its new surroundings and learn to communicate with each other. Then the horse will behave differently.

All the horse needs is understanding from his point of view- not a good whack with a bl**dy whip. How about if i take you without warning and dump you in india where you dont understand the language, food, surroundings. then whip you when you dont do as you're asked? Hardly fair is it? And im sure it wouldnt take you long to have a go back.
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Haven't read every single post but FWIW agree with this sentiment. Animals don't think like us and live in the moment by that I mean they don't think about past or worry about the future they just deal with what is happening at the time so to speak. Yes, he probably has done it before but I think it's something most horses can revert to when they're effectively 'Teleported' to a new place and it's a combination of things thats causing this behaviour.

I think you should at least ask the previous owner if he's done it (tactfully) and ask how they dealt with it. I did this with my horse because whilst he behaved perfectly when I tried him (twice) he started to act up when I got him home, he was just 4 so was expecting it TBH but they reassured me I was doing the right thing with my turning in a tight circle plus a good Pony Club kick, not losing my rag.

One of the first things we did was turn him out 24/7, made a huge difference, and reduced his feed to just haylage/grass not that he was having much anyway. I always hack out wearing a hat, body protector, hi vis, and gloves but also use a neck strap so's I can have a good anchor if needs be.

If he naps now and won't go forward I just won't let him turn round and he just has to stand until he gets bored, shouting at him and smacking does no good whatsoever. If he's being really awkward I won't argue with him with traffic around, it's not the place so jump off and lead until he settles, he knows very well if I get off I will still drag him round if necessary so either way I 'win.'
 
custard said:
Haven't read every single post but FWIW agree with this sentiment. Animals don't think like us and live in the moment by that I mean they don't think about past or worry about the future they just deal with what is happening at the time so to speak. Yes, he probably has done it before but I think it's something most horses can revert
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I disagree with this statement. EG: If a horse has had a scare then it can be reluctant to go down that track again - that is thinking about the past, associating a bad thing with a place.

Horses also think about the future. You drive a lorry onto my yard to load up for a show for example, the horses that compete/hunt absolutely know what the lorry means, that they are going to a party. You can be assured that in the morning they are all high on life and pooing for England - that is thinking about the future, they are anticipating what is coming - same with dressage tests, horses that repeat a dressage test can do it without direction, same as horses who event, they KNOW that after the boring circle stuff they get to go jump the silly plastic poles and THEN, THEN they get to wahooo around the XC jumps!
 
LOL Weezy....that so sums up the thoughts of a competition horse....get the boring stuff out of the way, then get the supposidly thechnical stuff then i can go and race through the countryside with my rider thinking their in control ;-) I suppose its a bit like us when we are kids and dont want to eat our greens....when we know we cant get out of it we eat them all first, then go onto the practical but not as monotonous rest of our dinner....then hope that we get to have ice cream afterwards!

Izzwizz thats great to hear that you have succeeded to get your horse going out. When you try horses you can never get 100% a good picture of them. Each horse reacts differently to a change in environment.
Im really glad to hear that you ride out with all of the gear on. I think i am the only person on my yard that rides with a body protector. But when i had just started riding i had a bad accident when a hedgecutter made a loud noise making the pony i was riding bolt and he tried to jump the arena fence then stopped and fell over backwards on top of me. It was funny looking back on it, i had wanted to go on the stable day but mum had said no because we were going skiing the next day....so i did the typical thing of going to my dad who let me go but "dont tell your mother"! i will never forget when he rang her when we got out of a and e......he had to hold the phone about a foot away from his ear!!! but when i started riding again it was on the proviso that i always wore a body protector and i guess the habit has always stuck. But if you have got a horse that is a bit unpredicatable i definately think its a good idea, not only for safety but it also gives OH's, family etc a bit more peace of mind.
Sods law though when paddy had his paddy (pardon the pun) last week when he bucked me off 3 times....it was the one day i had left my back protector at home!
What you have said certainly helps.....it is so important to ride them forwards, tbh i have never ridden with spurs....but he does respond quite nicely to my leg now and a tickle with a dressage whip pretty much makes him leap forwards!!
Poor you having to have had a couple of instances where you have had to start all over again. I hope her tendon injury recovers quickly and you get back to where you were very soon.
Its very difficult not to compare a new horse to your previous one. I have to stop saying to myself...pharoah wouldnt have done that or even to the opposite extent like when we were riding in the school on monday night and all of the youngsters that were out in the field were charging up and down the arena fence my previous horse would have been bucking and snorting and charging about.....Paddy didnt take any notice at all!!
But thank you again for telling me how you have got your mare going forwards. :-)
 
We had more progress last night.
I had pretty much written off riding him lastnight, once again the weather was horrendous, heavy rain and thick fog. When i got to the yard i had decided that i would probably just give him a good groom etc as we had worked hard in the school the night before.
The only girl at the yard wasnt riding so i thought i would give it a miss and save us both getting soaked. So i started grooming him off and then the girl i rode with on sunday (and who has been giving me loads of brilliant help) came in like a whirlwind as she was rinning late and called over the stable door...."im going down to the end of the road and back just to give him a bit of excercise, are you coming" so i jumped at the chance and threw some tack on paddy and we went down the road.
This time i went first out of the yard.......and NO HESITATION!!! He walked forwards well. I had lots of leg on him from the second i sat in the saddle so we went through the yard at a nice pace, i half expected a tiny bit of resistance at the gate as its still early days....but no....nothing....and he didnt even try to spook at the rubbish bags at the end of the lane....a bit of a favorite trick of his so that it gives him an excuse to try and spin....we had a completely hassle free walk (ok jog) down the track and out of the yard onto the road.
I couldnt believe it. I was so so pleased with him.
We had a good spook at a stationary parked trailer but that was it. On the way back he was good, no jogging back to the yard...well untill the geese came at us just after we turned for home but that was the geeses fault and not his. I joked to the other girl....in a minute we have to pass that really scary stationary trailer, and what should come hurtling around the blind corner the next second.....the scary trailer. Did paddy look at it or spook......no.
These horses really do baffle me......why on earth was it terrifying when it was parked yet totally non scary when it came hell for leather at us around a blind corner??? who knows!

So last night really was a triumph.

Next step......a hack alone! When that will be i am not sure, i may do one or two more hacks in company really seperating distance i.e me in front for a bit, me lagging behind for a bit. But i may just go for it and see what happens.
But so far i really cant argue with the progress achieved.
 
Thats good progress for you both. Meant to say earlier that I have been using NAF Magic calmer and that does seem to help Izzy. We went out today with 2 others and she led. Passed all sorts including about 6 young pheasants running around in the hedge row. She never bothered atall and another thing I have noticed is that Iz is more relaxed when the sun is out. Seems to sedate her. She was so good today but tomorrow is another day and another ride. All I would say is dont rush it and give Paddy time to settle in his new home. Dont put a number on the amount of rides before you try going out solo, it will happen!!
 
YAY well done you and well done Paddy who's a big brave boy then. As Izzwizz said don't rush going out on your own. You don't want to undo all your hard work so far. Trying to seperate the distance between you and the other horse is a good idea to begin with. Just keep enjoying your progress.
I havn't ridden Herbie all week due to the weather and now i have a stinking cold and don't have the energy for a fight. I hope i shift it soon so i can get on with him.
Anyway keep up the good work and keep the updates coming it's so nice to see happy posts.
 
Oh no laura, sorry to hear that you havent been able to get out on Herbie. I totally agree.....when ill or really bad weather its never the time to fight with a "naughty pony" i always think the best results happen when you are feeling well and when its not lashing down with rain.
That said, lastnight we had more progress.
I had pretty much written off riding due to torrential thundery rain, and no one else was riding. But then the girl i have been riding with turned up and she had to ride (her horse is a 4yr old ex racer and so needs his excercise) so she was going to take him out for a ride. I Tacked paddy up too and she suggested that i get on paddy first whilst she got ready and took him out of the yard and down the lane alone and waited half way along the track for her to catch us up. So we did just that. He walked perfectly out of the yard (well spooking at a piece of wood as he always does....i can almost see the grin on his face when he does it) and not one bit of resistance going down the track. We now seem to jog out as i ride very leg on to keep him going but forwards at any speed is better than slow and stopping which alows the bucking and rearing and spinning. So we jogged halfway down the track and i stopped him. I did half expect him to act up a bit then as it was the first time since the bucking bronco episode that he was allowed to stop on the track. But he waited patiently pretty much (one or 2 fidgets) but i kept him facing in the direction that we would be going out and made sure i kept him straight and he was a really good boy!
The other girl caught us up and we went on to have an uneventfull ride.

Hopefully he has got used to the fact that he cant get away with trying it on with his new owner and has accepted that its easier to go out of the yard nicely! (fingers crossed)

One more step closer to going out alone.
 
Well done on the further progress. I think you are right he is lurning he can't get away with it with you. :) Soon you'll have that nice horse back that you had when you first baught him. It sounds like he is lurning fast. :D
 
Hi, only just read about your problems and I would say, be patient. Your horse has been in two new homes in a short space of time and is probably feeling a bit confused and uncertain. If you can't get going, just sit there and wait and occassionally ask for some forward movement. Or, as others have suggested, get another (quiet) horse to lead you out. But. don't try and rush things.
Best of luck
 
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