Help - I rescued a Patterdale!!

Alec Swan said:
It seems that what ever you do I appear to disagree with you, but it's either a case of speak-up or shut-up! I hope that you understand that I'm in your corner though! :redface3::wink3: Here goes!:

As you're finding 'bonding' to be difficult it may be because you're sending out mixed messages. Playing and discipline when they're simultaneous (or near enough) may work with some dogs, but it seems not with yours. It's all new to him (or was 7 weeks ago) and by his lack of bowel control, by your descriptions of his conduct, which are well described, I'm again, and for the last time going to suggest that rather than trying to be his friend, that you organise the 'pack' hierarchy and when he's calm and well mannered, so you reward that with a simple acceptance of him. Perhaps try it for a coupe of days, and see how things go!

Good Luck, whatever you decide.

Alec.
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No, I have genuinely come on here for some advice for my sake, but also for the little man. I play with him also to stimulate him mentally as the vet said he needed a lot of this, but what you're saying does make sense. I can't transfer his play onto the walk as he gets distracted with scents and dogs so I'm not building up to such distraction with a toy, he loves treats, but these also don't work on a walk. What would simple acceptance of him look like? He's bouncing his ball at me now. He also follows me everywhere, I don't know if he's being cute, anxious or just mad!
 
Just take him back, sorry! Patterdales do not make good pets, when my OH was hunt terrierman he was given endless ones that people couldn't cope with. Even the MFHA recommend not using them to dig foxes as they are 'too hard' and will engage with the fox, which is a welfare issue (for both). Lovely dogs and very efficient atd what they have been bred for generations, very succeessfully, to do. Being a pet was nowhere on that wish list.
 
CorvusCorax said:
…….. . In fact everything is on your terms or not at all.
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^^^^ This and the way to the dog's heart is through consistency and not mixing our messages up.

Pattie said:
…….. . What would simple acceptance of him look like? He's bouncing his ball at me now. He also follows me everywhere, I don't know if he's being cute, anxious or just mad!
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Acceptance, I find, is best expressed by every now and then, calling him over and when he's either in sit or standing, placing one hand under his chin and whilst gently stroking his face, tell him that he's a 'Good Boy'.

If you're going to achieve the status as suggested by CC above, then treats, toys and playtime simply won't achieve that …. at least, not with HIM! The fact that he follows you about and wants to be with you is a huge plus. Now if you deny him what he wants by popping him in his cage every now and then, perhaps when he comes out, he'll be a bit more amenable. Finally! …. if you watch the best trainers of dogs, you'll notice that they keep speech to a minimum, and the reason for that is when the dog is spoken too, it listens.

Your dog is and will always be a bit of a handful, but currently he sounds rather confused and not particularly happy.

Right, that's it, I'm off out to dinner in a while.

Alec.
 
I understand your confusion, but if was choice between advice from Alec and one from a vet, I would choose Alec every time.

As this dog as had a few homes its learnt how to manage people, the rescues I have had have usually had one inappropriate home and basic dog management is all that was needed to solve any problems. Forget about bonding, being his friend etc. At the moment he is getting what he wants, its a simple transaction you do X and you get Y, if you do not you get ignored.

The bowel problem could be food. In kennels they pick up things and get fed cheap food. I would go an look at some no cereal,low fat foods, try the smallest packs, and not always the most expensive. Our rescue lurcher would do a lake( I am not kidding) of poo every morning, after about five trials and probably routine we settled on one that stopped the river.
 
No real advise sorry, but my sister in laws family have a Patterdale and he is the most obedient little things ever, he doesn't need a lead to walk, comes to call, isn't prey driven, so it can be done,
Hope your little chap turns a corner
 
Pattie said:
Sadly, I think you're right 5 professionals have said the same. They all feel he has been a working dog. He had a gap in his ear when we adopted him which means that this is possible. He certainly knew where to go and what to do when he got out!
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Could you bear to part with him? If so, try to find him a working home. Good working patterdales are often highly prized by gamekeepers.
 
WorkingGSD said:
Could you bear to part with him? If so, try to find him a working home. Good working patterdales are often highly prized by gamekeepers.
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I want the best for the dog. He's lying next to me, snoozing and relaxed. I coudn't bear for him to go somewhere and not be happy. I think he would be a great worker dog I'm sure he has been in the past. Do worker dogs live outside?

He's has learned a lot, he used to be a right nut job at the start of a walk now he just walks out fairly calmly. He used to rush at the door now I can make him sit and stay for a while. He sits and stay until his dinner is put down for him. Baby steps I know, but they are there.
 
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Clodagh said:
Just take him back, sorry! Patterdales do not make good pets, when my OH was hunt terrierman he was given endless ones that people couldn't cope with. Even the MFHA recommend not using them to dig foxes as they are 'too hard' and will engage with the fox, which is a welfare issue (for both). Lovely dogs and very efficient atd what they have been bred for generations, very succeessfully, to do. Being a pet was nowhere on that wish list.
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Yep, my thoughts too.
 
Clodagh said:
Just take him back, sorry! Patterdales do not make good pets, when my OH was hunt terrierman he was given endless ones that people couldn't cope with. Even the MFHA recommend not using them to dig foxes as they are 'too hard' and will engage with the fox, which is a welfare issue (for both). Lovely dogs and very efficient atd what they have been bred for generations, very succeessfully, to do. Being a pet was nowhere on that wish list.
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What becomes of him then?
 
Pattie said:
I want the best for the dog. He's lying next to me, snoozing and relaxed. I coudn't bear for him to go somewhere and not be happy. I think he would be a great worker dog I'm sure he has been in the past. Do worker dogs live outside?

He's has learned a lot, he used to be a right nut job at the start of a walk now he just walks out fairly calmly. He used to rush at the door now I can make him sit and stay for a while. He sits and stay until his dinner is put down for him. Baby steps I know, but they are there.
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just wanted to say- look- this is progress in less than 2 months, with a dog who (regardless of breed) had had multiple changes in 2 years. causing him to be unsettled.

In terms of 'bonding'- personally I think dogs, especially working types, need rules, and then they will bond with you, but not in a cuddly teddybear way. my collie was a stress head! but she now has a pretty consistent routine and is thriving.

all her 'bad' behaviors have been when she is unsure and stressed.
 
Pattie said:
…….. . I want him to be happy.
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You CAN do it, and it may be that you're rethinking your current strategy. Thats positive. If you're to have any success — and it will only ever be partial — you will need to understand the dog, take charge and have a major re-think.

Through your posts there are odd chinks of light and they're such that I suspect that you may slowly be understanding that the needs of the dog may not be as you initially imagined. There have been many positive and constructive suggestions from others, suggestions that make sense too. We can read all the books that we want, we can listen to the doggy behaviourists and we can employ trainers or vets to give advice, but the bottom line is that we have to do it for ourselves, and I truly believe that you can.

You will only ever have a fruitcake, but with a bit of thought, one which you can manage. You CAN do it, don't send him back to God knows who, just yet. :)

Alec.
 
I'd take him to agility. On the pulling - when he pull s you either turn and walk sharply the other way and then go back in your original direction when he's not pulling that way, or stop and only continue when he come sback to you( may need to be quite enthusiastic about encouraging him to come back towards you initially until he gets the idea and reward him)
Also look up clicker training - handy for teaching tricks
A halti may not be a bad idea.
 
WorkingGSD said:
Could you bear to part with him? If so, try to find him a working home. Good working patterdales are often highly prized by gamekeepers.
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I would hazard a guess that if this dog has ended up in rescue, it's not proved to be a good working dog. A patterdale who isn't a good worker, and from this post presumably not a good pet, is destined for a bit of a miserable life unless he falls on a home willing to take him as he is.

You're a better person than me OP, I think I would have sent him back, but if you persevere I hope you win some of the battles.
 
Your latter posts sound a lot more like you want to keep the dog, whereas your earlier ones sounded as though you weren't so sure. If you decide to keep him, and are prepared for a dog you cannot let off lead and that you need a garden like fort Knox - and to be fair it sounds as though you are happy with all that - then have fun.
We had a patt called 'Storm' who had been raised in hunt kennels. He was a lovely dog, very handsome and affectionate on his terms, but you DID not touch him if he was not asking you to, you never grabbed at him in any way and when we had children we had to put weldmesh all over his kennel so they couldn't get too close. I loved him dearly, he was a pure worker with no fluffy bits, he would put his paws on your leg if you could stroke him.
Ours all got 2 off lead walks a day, over known territory with no holes, and got fed on return to kennels to motivate them. Ours were not at all dog aggreesive though, none of them were, as a breed they were raised with the hounds and a terrier with an attitude problem would not have lasted very long, so good temperament was sort of self perpetuating.
 
I would try to find him a working home where he will live with other dogs and be a worker not a pet .
There is no way ( and I have lived with with dogs all my life ) that I would live with a dog who I had to be careful of when telling to get off the chair .
I like Patterdales my friend had working Patterdales for years but they would not be my choice for a house pet .
 
SusieT said:
I'd take him to agility. On the pulling - when he pull s you either turn and walk sharply the other way and then go back in your original direction when he's not pulling that way, or stop and only continue when he come sback to you( may need to be quite enthusiastic about encouraging him to come back towards you initially until he gets the idea and reward him)
Also look up clicker training - handy for teaching tricks
A halti may not be a bad idea.
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I've been turning and stopping ever since we got him. He's very strong willed and he actually pulls more the more I try to stop him. That's why I think a halti collar would help. I do clicker training with him, he will do most anything in the house or the small yard, once I take him out, he's not interested. I act like an idiot, he still won't come. On walks when he has recall, I can actually make him stay for 4 steps before giving him a treat, when he's on the scent, nothing can be done.
 
Goldenstar said:
I would try to find him a working home where he will live with other dogs and be a worker not a pet .
There is no way ( and I have lived with with dogs all my life ) that I would live with a dog who I had to be careful of when telling to get off the chair .
I like Patterdales my friend had working Patterdales for years but they would not be my choice for a house pet .
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Had we known the nature of the breed we wouldn't have taken him. I feel so stupid for not checking the breed out more. We actually went to look at another do which wasn't suitable, ha.
 
Clodagh said:
I loathe haltis, teaching heel is not rocket science and putting one of those things on a dogs head is one sure way to get them to resist the lead. (IMO).
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As I say, I can teach this dog lots until he has the scent of a furry animal or a dog, then everything goes out of the window.
 
Clodagh said:
Your latter posts sound a lot more like you want to keep the dog, whereas your earlier ones sounded as though you weren't so sure. If you decide to keep him, and are prepared for a dog you cannot let off lead and that you need a garden like fort Knox - and to be fair it sounds as though you are happy with all that - then have fun.
We had a patt called 'Storm' who had been raised in hunt kennels. He was a lovely dog, very handsome and affectionate on his terms, but you DID not touch him if he was not asking you to, you never grabbed at him in any way and when we had children we had to put weldmesh all over his kennel so they couldn't get too close. I loved him dearly, he was a pure worker with no fluffy bits, he would put his paws on your leg if you could stroke him.
Ours all got 2 off lead walks a day, over known territory with no holes, and got fed on return to kennels to motivate them. Ours were not at all dog aggreesive though, none of them were, as a breed they were raised with the hounds and a terrier with an attitude problem would not have lasted very long, so good temperament was sort of self perpetuating.
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I am conflicted by the dog. I want to ensure, as far as is possible, that he will be cared for. The rescue centre will take him back and look after him for as long as it takes, but he won't have his home comforts that we're giving him. On the other hand I'm not sure if I can cope with the difficulties the dog presents for the next however many years. He's had his walk and his breakfast and all curled up relaxed in his bed and I could cry for him.
 
RunToEarth said:
I would hazard a guess that if this dog has ended up in rescue, it's not proved to be a good working dog. A patterdale who isn't a good worker, and from this post presumably not a good pet, is destined for a bit of a miserable life unless he falls on a home willing to take him as he is.

You're a better person than me OP, I think I would have sent him back, but if you persevere I hope you win some of the battles.
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He did spend some time with a family before they took him back, prior to that he was in the rescue for about 6 months. He be brought in as a stray, so he must have got out of somewhere and been picked up.
 
Alec Swan said:
You CAN do it, and it may be that you're rethinking your current strategy. Thats positive. If you're to have any success — and it will only ever be partial — you will need to understand the dog, take charge and have a major re-think.

Through your posts there are odd chinks of light and they're such that I suspect that you may slowly be understanding that the needs of the dog may not be as you initially imagined. There have been many positive and constructive suggestions from others, suggestions that make sense too. We can read all the books that we want, we can listen to the doggy behaviourists and we can employ trainers or vets to give advice, but the bottom line is that we have to do it for ourselves, and I truly believe that you can.

You will only ever have a fruitcake, but with a bit of thought, one which you can manage. You CAN do it, don't send him back to God knows who, just yet. :)

Alec.
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We knew from day 3 what we were dealing with LOL! We didn't want to take him back without giving him a good try, the more we've read, the more dire the situation seemed to be in terms of training prospects.
 
honetpot said:
I understand your confusion, but if was choice between advice from Alec and one from a vet, I would choose Alec every time.

As this dog as had a few homes its learnt how to manage people, the rescues I have had have usually had one inappropriate home and basic dog management is all that was needed to solve any problems. Forget about bonding, being his friend etc. At the moment he is getting what he wants, its a simple transaction you do X and you get Y, if you do not you get ignored.

The bowel problem could be food. In kennels they pick up things and get fed cheap food. I would go an look at some no cereal,low fat foods, try the smallest packs, and not always the most expensive. Our rescue lurcher would do a lake( I am not kidding) of poo every morning, after about five trials and probably routine we settled on one that stopped the river.
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We seem to have sorted his bowel problem now, his poos are not so many on the walk and are more solid. He hasn't defecated in the house for two weeks. He still has urinated this week though.
 
Many thanks for all of your replies, I'm taking everything on board and trying to work out the best way forward for this little chap.
 
Pattie said:
He did spend some time with a family before they took him back, prior to that he was in the rescue for about 6 months. He be brought in as a stray, so he must have got out of somewhere and been picked up.
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He could well have come from a gamekeeper or farmer then? Whereabouts in the UK are you?
 
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