Help needed - advice on over zealour barefoot trim

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JACQSZOO

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My best mate keeps her horse barefoot and has done for three years. He still has to wear boots as he has not taken very well to the barefoot thing.
On Friday he had a trim and has been horrendously sore ever since to the point that even standing still on concrete is uncomfortable for him.
He has strong digital pulses in his front feet and weaker ones in his hinds. When walking he is placing his feet down awkwardly.
Is it possible that he could have developed low grade laminitus from this or could it just be the over zealous trim?

I have to be very careful how I approach my friend about this as she is totally comitted to being barefoot. I suggested giving him some bute at the weekend but friend said she didn't want to as she knew he was a little footy but would be fine in a day or two.

I dont want to fall out with her but at the same time her horse is clearly in a lot of pain and as a friend I feel I need to offer as much support as I can.
 
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Is the horse in work? I would think that if he's still having problems after three years the situation is not likely to improve!

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He is in regular work. My personal feeling is that he is not suited to barefoot but as I said my friend is devoted, so I have to be careful what I say as I really do not want to have a major row about it.

My concern at the minute is whether it is possible that this most recent trim could have bought on low grade laminitus - is that possible?
 
I have mine barefoot most front shoes if jumping alot in sumemr in peek gound hardness.... I had a farrier who hacked at thiers and she was very sore, awkward very lame but cleared after few days. Needless to say I changed farrier... Hes a god send know his stuff, balances rather then hacks.... I would recommend a different farrier maybe a barefoot one? Who knows his sutff and will do best for horse and make him sound rather then lame!
 
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I have mine barefoot most front shoes if jumping alot in sumemr in peek gound hardness.... I had a farrier who hacked at thiers and she was very sore, awkward very lame but cleared after few days. Needless to say I changed farrier... Hes a god send know his stuff, balances rather then hacks.... I would recommend a different farrier maybe a barefoot one? Who knows his sutff and will do best for horse and make him sound rather then lame!

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This was done by a proper and well known barefoot trimmer!
 
If the hooves have been overtrimmed to the point of soreness then that is cruelty and abuse. Some horses have soles that are not suited to barefoot but even given that some horses are they should never be trimmed to the extent of making a horse lame. I'm afraid I would have to say something before someone else reports this as a cruelty case. What is the point of sticking to a dogma if it is unsuitable. Please try to tell your friend how miserable she will be making her horse. I hope you manage to sort this out as you are right in thinking that this may well cause laminitus.
 
The horse is in pain. That is cruelty, sorry! If it can't stand on hard ground I would be worried.
I think this whole barefoot attitude that a bit of pain is fine ('footyness') is awful. We wouldn't normall ride a horse who was unsound!
In normal work?
I don't know how to approach it but poor horse!
 
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If the hooves have been overtrimmed to the point of soreness then that is cruelty and abuse. Some horses have soles that are not suited to barefoot but even given that some horses are they should never be trimmed to the extent of making a horse lame. I'm afraid I would have to say something before someone else reports this as a cruelty case. What is the point of sticking to a dogma if it is unsuitable. Please try to tell your friend how miserable she will be making her horse. I hope you manage to sort this out as you are right in thinking that this may well cause laminitus.

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Beleive me I have tried and I keep on trying. Tonight may well be the catalyst though as I have told her that he may well have low grade laminitus bought on by this trim. She is trying to get hold of the trimmer as I type.

The difficulty is how do we tell if he is just sore from the trim or has low grade laminitus?
 
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The horse is in pain. That is cruelty, sorry! If it can't stand on hard ground I would be worried.
I think this whole barefoot attitude that a bit of pain is fine ('footyness') is awful. We wouldn't normall ride a horse who was unsound!
In normal work?
I don't know how to approach it but poor horse!

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I completely agree. But as you can imagine this could end a very long friendship if I push it too hard. But by the same token I cannot stand by and say nothing.
 
Could he wear his boots in the field for a couple of days? I am not sure about the lami but it seems coincidental that he is now sore after his feet have been trimmed. Its very hard to deal with these situations, I don't know what I would do really. I would try and speak to your friend again, gently, and see how it goes. Good luck
 
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Could he wear his boots in the field for a couple of days? I am not sure about the lami but it seems coincidental that he is now sore after his feet have been trimmed. Its very hard to deal with these situations, I don't know what I would do really. I would try and speak to your friend again, gently, and see how it goes. Good luck

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Not really as it is very muddy and wearing the boots in the field would just cause bad rubs.

There is no doubt that the soreness has been caused by the trim. As I said I just wanted to confirm if it could have bought on laminitus and how would we tell whether it is just soreness from the trim or laminitus?
 
I think a second opinion is required.

I can't see the point of doing it if it causes all these problems.

This is someone who has a "Shoeless" horse in work.

If it turns out that your friend is fighting a losing battle then I think, as a friend,,you really need to point out the obvious. She may well thank you in the end.
smile.gif
 
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I think a second opinion is required.

I can't see the point of doing it if it causes all these problems.

This is someone who has a "Shoeless" horse in work.

If it turns out that your friend is fighting a losing battle then I think, as a friend,,you really need to point out the obvious. She may well thank you in the end.
smile.gif


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Trouble is I cannot get her to seek a second opnion as as far as she is concerned they are all "anti barefoot anyway". Her horse is in great discomfort caused by this trimmer (who incidentially has never caused him to go this lame before) and she will not consider giving him bute or talking to anyone other than this trimmer.
 
I have spoken to my Farrier regarding barefoot trimming and he is very adament that no horse or pony should be lame or even foot sore after being shod or trimmed! So it sounds like the farrier has been over zealous and needs to come out and rectify the problem as it could cause more serious consequences.
My farrier also once told me that the soreness can cause traumatic laminitus
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As for trying to talk your friend round,im afraid im useless!!
Hope you manage to help the poor horse in some way!
 
what a poor attitude to the care of her horse she has. it needs to see a vet to sort out what sounds like low grade lami, and have some sort of shoe fitted if that is possible, what is her reason for barefoot in the first place??
 
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I think a second opinion is required.

I can't see the point of doing it if it causes all these problems.

This is someone who has a "Shoeless" horse in work.

If it turns out that your friend is fighting a losing battle then I think, as a friend,,you really need to point out the obvious. She may well thank you in the end.
smile.gif


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Trouble is I cannot get her to seek a second opnion as as far as she is concerned they are all "anti barefoot anyway". Her horse is in great discomfort caused by this trimmer (who incidentially has never caused him to go this lame before) and she will not consider giving him bute or talking to anyone other than this trimmer.

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Well I really think it is time to get cross about it.

People aren't anti barefoot, they are anti this kind of thing!!
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I don't know what the best thing to do is as I am not there, I don't know the woman etc. I hope it all gets sorted out very soon.
 
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what a poor attitude to the care of her horse she has. it needs to see a vet to sort out what sounds like low grade lami, and have some sort of shoe fitted if that is possible, what is her reason for barefoot in the first place??

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When she bought him 3 years ago he had crap quality feet and was'nt holding a shoe for more than 3 weeks. She looked into barefoot, took his shoes off and has been devoted ever since.
3 years on, even before the trim on Friday, he is footy on stoney ground and cannot be ridden on hard surfaces without his boots.
He has had lameness issues on and off all this time, with bruising and abcess', which to me says quite strongly it is not the right thing for him, but she has literally be "brain washed" into this barefoot thing.
She really does care for her horse, but she has been fed such a load of crap that she genuinely beleives that this is all normal for a barefoot horse and in the long run is the best thing she can do for him.

She is quite happy to keep him in boots forever, which is fine, but surely it isn't right that he should be so bad after a trim.
He has been in all day today as to get to the field he has to go across stoney ground, which he is refusing (and I dont blame him) to walk over. So he has been stood in all day on a nice soft bed yet has very strong digital pulses.
 
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Also, even though he says he's a barefoot trimmer,is he actually a registered farrier??

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She
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and no she is not a farrier. She is a very well known and respected barefoot trimmer, who I hasten to add has never caused him to go this lame before.
 
My mare is barefoot, not because I am a tree hugging horse owner but because her feet were so bad they needed a break from shoes & nails. My farrier is great and has encouraged me to go barefoot. She has only been 'naked' for 4 months but the difference is amazing and she has NEVER been sore after a trim/rasp. It really sounds like your friend is trying to defend her actions as she knows that being barefoot is not working for her horse, it doesn't work for them all, and she is trying to justify her decisions. I may be wrong but thats the way it sounds. If her horse is in pain personally I would be tempted to slip him a bute when I know that she is not going to give him one, he is not going to be ridden and its safe to do so. Can you go up to the yard after she has left in the evening and give him a bute? May not be totally ethical but the poor thing must be in so much pain
 
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Sorry She!! whoops!!
Its actually illegal for her to even trim your friends horse then im afraid as even though she's not shoeing it she's not a registered farrier and therfore isnt allowed to even trim it,even if she is a 'well known barefoot trimmer'. She could get into a lot of trouble for it.
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blush.gif
Sorry She!! whoops!!
Its actually illegal for her to even trim your friends horse then im afraid as even though she's not shoeing it she's not a registered farrier and therfore isnt allowed to even trim it,even if she is a 'well known barefoot trimmer'. She could get into a lot of trouble for it.
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I was under the impression that it was only illegal to prepare a foot for shoeing if you were not a registered farrier - hence the reason so many of the barefoot trimmers are practicing.

Anyways, getting back to my original query. Is it possible that this trim could have caused laminitus and if it could what signs should we be looking for?
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Yes it can cause Laminitus (traumatic laminitus). Signs are, Raised digital pulse, standing back on heels and in extreme cases irratic breathing. I really wish your friend would call a vet or something,
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I think a second opinion is required.

I can't see the point of doing it if it causes all these problems.

This is someone who has a "Shoeless" horse in work.

If it turns out that your friend is fighting a losing battle then I think, as a friend,,you really need to point out the obvious. She may well thank you in the end.
smile.gif


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Trouble is I cannot get her to seek a second opnion as as far as she is concerned they are all "anti barefoot anyway". Her horse is in great discomfort caused by this trimmer (who incidentially has never caused him to go this lame before) and she will not consider giving him bute or talking to anyone other than this trimmer.

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Sorry, but that's a very blinkered approach on her behalf, especially as I'm assuming she's dead set on barefoot being what's best for the horse.
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Just because she wants to keep to this ideal doesn't mean that it's in the hortses interest to continue along this line.
Given that she's so tunnel visioned about the way she maintains her horses feet I feel you're going to banging your head against the proverbial brick wall
frown.gif


xx
 
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Yes it can cause Laminitus (traumatic laminitus). Signs are, Raised digital pulse, standing back on heels and in extreme cases irratic breathing. I really wish your friend would call a vet or something,
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So would you say it would be unusual to have digital pulses just because it was a bit foot sore?
 
Hi I have just picked up this thread. This has become an all too common problem of late
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, which I would be happy to discuss at length.. For now PLEASE don't administer anything to someone else's horse.
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I think a second opinion is required.

I can't see the point of doing it if it causes all these problems.

This is someone who has a "Shoeless" horse in work.

If it turns out that your friend is fighting a losing battle then I think, as a friend,,you really need to point out the obvious. She may well thank you in the end.
smile.gif


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Trouble is I cannot get her to seek a second opnion as as far as she is concerned they are all "anti barefoot anyway". Her horse is in great discomfort caused by this trimmer (who incidentially has never caused him to go this lame before) and she will not consider giving him bute or talking to anyone other than this trimmer.

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Sorry, but that's a very blinkered approach on her behalf, especially as I'm assuming she's dead set on barefoot being what's best for the horse.
frown.gif
Just because she wants to keep to this ideal doesn't mean that it's in the hortses interest to continue along this line.
Given that she's so tunnel visioned about the way she maintains her horses feet I feel you're going to banging your head against the proverbial brick wall
frown.gif


xx

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Tell me about it
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Sounds like abuse to me and I would try and contact a welfare organisation to see if anything can be done to remove this poor horse from it's cruel owner.
Exactly how this situation differs from the strasser cases where trimmers have been prosecuted I can't see.
 
You know, I really don't know what to advise
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The horse being footy(ie in pain) would not be acceptable to me at all, and I'd be rather miffed if anyone(farrier or trimmer) had left a horse of mine in that state.

It's verging on cruelty not allowing the horse some relief from the pain by refusing to give it painkillers!
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