Help needed - advice on over zealour barefoot trim

O dear. This is really not what I intended. I do like a good debate. But I really only wanted to find out if the trim could have bought on laminitus and what I should be looking for or whether the raised digital pulses could simply be because he is footy.
 
QR - in my opinion, and please do not take this offensively but yoo say yoor friend is totally devoted to barefoot trimming etc so much that it appears to be over taking her passion for her horse, maybe she'd b best of becoming a farrier and beginning to understand the concepts and that it doesnt suit every horse before she does her boy some damage.
hope all ends well
x
 
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Without wanting to get into a fist fight with anyone

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No fist fight here. My ridden horse is fine post trim and my old gal is better post trim.

I feel very happy about that.
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It means what ever I am doing,,I am doing it right
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When my pony was dying of laminitis I read that piece you have sent the link to. On re-reading it, I still can't find any evidence that poor farrier work can cause acute laminitis? Yes obviously it can affect chronic sufferers but there seems to be no reference to an acute onset?
 
Some 15 years ago when I didn't know much about horses and shoeing I listened to my farrier carefully. He always came in the afternoon and horses were never worked the day they were shod or trimmed. He backed this advice with saying that you don't go running in your new shoes...I know it sounds naive and childlish but that's how I remember it.
I have seen many horses being shod or trimmed since then and some did look like they were slightly uncomfortable or 'testing' after a farrier did his job.

I would be interested to read what happens to the pony in question. I think barefoot is the way forward but some horses are just not suited for the solutions we have now available. Some stories of 'converted' horses just make me shiver and I would agree some sort of brainwash has taken place with some people! Ironically it also seems to be with those people that are most interested in physiology and psychology of their horses! Can't quite suss this out
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As some people will know, I have a barefoot horse, and one in shoes. It's horses for courses.

My barefoot horse is trimmed by an Equine Podiatrist of the KC LaPierre school. I know for a fact that he will advise the owner of a horse that is not getting on barefoot to go back to shoes. He will also advise even before the shoes come off whether barefoot is likely to be beneficial or not.

My barefoot horse has NEVER been more sore after a trim, only the opposite. The trim is designed to make the horse more comfortable.

A KC trim is non-invasive. It isn't to be confused with other trims that are known to cause acute soreness such as Strasser, although I'm not saying your friend had this trim as it has been comprehensively discredited and I don't know anyone who practices it.

After 3 years, a barefoot horse should not still be sore. Neither should there be any foot balance issues necessitating invasive trimming.

I have had lame horses after visits from the farrier however - these have been shod horses.
 
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Sorry Ive not gone through 4 pages of replies so pardon me if this has already been said. The horse needs a deep supportive bed, water and hay...and a VET.

And whoever has encouraged this owner to subject her horse to sore feet and the rest for three years ( ) deserves to be prosecuted for cruelty along with the owner.

These damned barefoot people are so brainwashed its unbelievable. Yes go shoeless if it suits the horse but to allow a horse to be in pain or discomfort for so long for the sake of misguided and over zealous beliefs is just disgusting.


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My thoughts exactly.
 
I've not read all the posts (only 1 or 2 in fact) but it can't be right that this horse's feet are so sore; I had PF barefoot for 3 years in the UK and she was ONLY slightly footsore after we took her shoes off the first time...
Sorry, no help at all, but alarm bells going like mad!!
 
Haven't read all the thread (apologies) but the beginning of this post just makes me feel sick.

I tried with Ty, and after 4 months he was just so footsore I felt awful and put the shoes back on.

Why on earth would you put your horse through pain?
 
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I am surprised that all of the people on here are saying that none of their horses are footy after being trimmed. All of mine are footy for at least a day afterwards and my farrier is a terrific farrier and all of my horses have fabulous feet. All I can think is that perhaps you lot aren't taking your horses out on stony ground after being trimmed
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I only have one barefoot and even after a trim he is not "footy" on stony ground.
 
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I only have one barefoot and even after a trim he is not "footy" on stony ground.

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No nor is Amy, although admittedly she's not ridden, only in the field. She hasn't had a lame day since having her shoes off, and is certainly never lame after a trim.

However, Freddy just couldn't cope without fronts and was terribly sore after even the most sympathetic of trims.

Some horses just aren't able to cope without shoes, and as much as your friend may be committed to Barefoot, it would be nice if she put her horse first.

I would think that it is pain rather than low grade lami that is causing the digital pulse to race etc. And I would have had him on some pain relief immediately.
 
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Friend has just texted - she has spoken to the vet and he has advised keeping him in and give him bute.

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Phew. Hopefully the poor lad will get some relief pretty quickly.
 
I have just read the whole of this thread, and I am so pleased to read your last post here. There is nothing I can add, except to say that my horse has front shoes and I don't work him the day he's shod because he is sometimes a little sensitive the first day. And I trust my farrier completely.
I am so glad your friend has called the vet. I do hope she takes notice of what (s)he says for the future of this horse.
 
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I have just read the whole of this thread, and I am so pleased to read your last post here. There is nothing I can add, except to say that my horse has front shoes and I don't work him the day he's shod because he is sometimes a little sensitive the first day. And I trust my farrier completely.
I am so glad your friend has called the vet. I do hope she takes notice of what (s)he says for the future of this horse.

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Whilst I am certain that on this occassion she will follow the vets advice I would also be extremely surprised if she should change her mind about him being barefoot.

It really is very very strange. She is a very caring person, adores animals and worships her horse. She does seem to have a complete mental block as far as his feet are concerned. It is almost like she has been totally brainwashed to beleive this is the only way.
 
Perhaps you could have a word with her about staying barefoot but changing the trimmer. Maybe this trimmer is too radical with their trim, or takes too much off rather than setting up shorter appointment periods. I very much doubt you will be able to change her over to putting shoes on but guiding her to a farrier or different trimmer may help the situation.
 
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As some people will know, I have a barefoot horse, and one in shoes. It's horses for courses.

My barefoot horse is trimmed by an Equine Podiatrist of the KC LaPierre school. I know for a fact that he will advise the owner of a horse that is not getting on barefoot to go back to shoes. He will also advise even before the shoes come off whether barefoot is likely to be beneficial or not.

My barefoot horse has NEVER been more sore after a trim, only the opposite. The trim is designed to make the horse more comfortable.

A KC trim is non-invasive. It isn't to be confused with other trims that are known to cause acute soreness such as Strasser, although I'm not saying your friend had this trim as it has been comprehensively discredited and I don't know anyone who practices it.

After 3 years, a barefoot horse should not still be sore. Neither should there be any foot balance issues necessitating invasive trimming.

I have had lame horses after visits from the farrier however - these have been shod horses.

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Could you ask your trimmer if they would be prepared to speak to this person if JAQ passed her the details?

I'm not against barefoot and my horse has a barefoot "holiday" each year. However, much as I'd love her to be totally barefoot (she's currently only shod in front) even after 3 months though she's fine in the field, she's too footy on rought ground and I know its not for her.

My farrier agrees although he too is happy for horses to stay barefoot if trimmed correctly. Hopefully any foal I have will be able to stay barefoot and just be trimmed but that will remain to be seen.

With this person though, she needs to be told by someone experienced that 3 years later if the horse is experiencing pain it needs to be shod. If she's so devoted to barefoot she needs to sell the horse and buy one that can cope with it. Some just can't and thats a fact she cannot get away from - and most HONEST barefoot trimmers will tell you that - I'd be very unhappy with the one she has trimming so much it causes pain and continuing to encourage the owner to put the horse through it.

I'd quite honestly be speaking to a welfare organisation. Even if they can't do much now, they can monitor the situation and take action against the trimmer/owner if it continues.

Friend or not, I couldn't see an animal suffer like that. She's not much of a friend if she won't believe you and thinks its because you are anti-barefoot rather than genuinely worried about the horse's welfare.
 
Sorry if this is a repeat, haven't read all replies. I can understand why an owner would want to explore the barefoot route, but it isn't suitable for all horses by any means. Unless a horse has good, strong feet, or is not in regular work, it is not very fair to make it work in this way. We took Toffee's hind shoes off a year ago because we got a foal and she was bound to be putting him in his place from time to time, and even though she has good feet and is only ridden at weekends at the moment she still has trouble with gravel etc. and has to be ridden with this in mind. You are in a tricky situation because you can see the horse needs attention, yet your friend is convinced she is doing the best for him. Could you persuade her to let a farrier take a look at him? He could give an unbiased opinion on the condition of his feet.
 
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Sorry if this is a repeat, haven't read all replies. I can understand why an owner would want to explore the barefoot route, but it isn't suitable for all horses by any means. Unless a horse has good, strong feet, or is not in regular work, it is not very fair to make it work in this way. We took Toffee's hind shoes off a year ago because we got a foal and she was bound to be putting him in his place from time to time, and even though she has good feet and is only ridden at weekends at the moment she still has trouble with gravel etc. and has to be ridden with this in mind. You are in a tricky situation because you can see the horse needs attention, yet your friend is convinced she is doing the best for him. Could you persuade her to let a farrier take a look at him? He could give an unbiased opinion on the condition of his feet.

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Already tried - got my farrier to look at him a good 18 months ago - farrier even offered to take put her on his books but she did'nt want to know. Now I have had the same farrier for nearly 18 years. Always been great and she has known him for several of those years and agrees he is a good farrier but still she insists that all of this is "normal" for a barefoot horse because her blinkin trimmer says so.
 
Tia our old TB's are bare foot and they are often a bit foot sore on concrete the next day until they settle down - I should add we have one of the top farriers in the country who is a remedial specialist and has books published so I do trust him!
 
Well you are really banging your head on a brick wall with this situation! All you can do is carry on as you are, keeping an eye on him and trying to persuade your friend that barefoot isn't for every horse. I can see why your friend would want to try it, as it can be beneficial in many cases - just not all.
 
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Well you are really banging your head on a brick wall with this situation! All you can do is carry on as you are, keeping an eye on him and trying to persuade your friend that barefoot isn't for every horse. I can see why your friend would want to try it, as it can be beneficial in many cases - just not all.

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It is extremely frustrating. She is a very intelligent woman with a heart of gold but seems to have a mental block as far as this is concerned.
I'm really hoping and praying that this latest episode will be a bit of a wake up call for her. I might have a word with YO tonight and ask him to have a word quietly. She many listen to him.
 
Good luck Jacq and I hope you manage to persuade your friend to see sense and that the barefoot route -with this trimmer anyway- is not working. Please let us all know how your friend's horse gets on as I'm sure I am not the only one who was very concerned about its welfare -with regard to feet and pain- after reading this thread
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I have tried barefoot with my big lad as he doesn't do much work and initially it was because he had chipped a chunk off from his hoof through kicking a door ( can't damage it that way now as he has a mat and tyre attached to cushion). His shoes were removed last month and it is early days with him. I have got feed supplements and different creams etc to improve and maintain his feet which are good anyway. I may consider shoeing him for the summer months I don't know yet?
It is looking more likely that I will though and then during the winter his feet can have a break from nails and banging.
My other horse had his removed yesterday and seemed a tad sore on his near hind coming out of the field. He kicked out and then seemed to walk a bit gingerly for a few strides ( going downbank). Once he got to the flat he was ok and when I lifted his leg up to look he seemed fine, there was no visible signs of anything that could have caused it. I felt all around his foot and there was no heat or strong pulses etc and he walked out sound this morning.
Hopefully he will be staying bare as my farrier said both him and the other have very good feet.
I will give it a go but if I see my horses to be uncomfortable due to being unshod then I will reshoe straight away. I will not compromise my horse's welfare for the latest fad or because it is cheaper to go bare. I am certainly not against barefoot in fact it is more natural for the horse imo ( that was why I wanted to try it even before I got the horses). But I will agree in what has been said already that the method does not suit every horse. Owners should be vigilant in noticing the signs that it is not working for their horse and then taking the appropriate action to remedy the situation.
Cazx
 
Just had this email. Spoke to vet but not getting him out.


TRIMMER hasn’t rung me back. Vet wasn’t worried at all. Said it happens quite a lot – being footy after farrier or trimmer. I said he was much more than footy and explained how sore he was and that he’d got a digital pulse. He said keep him in and give him bute. Ok to stay on haylege as it wasn’t food that caused it but cut out hardfeed (apart from a little bit in order to give him his supplement and bute). I phoned this and left a message for YO asking him to give HORSE a bute and am picking some up from vets on way to yard.
 
I have to say, if the horse is as bad as you say, then I am very surprised that the vet did not come out instead of purely prescribing medication over the phone
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. Usually they only do this if they know the owner is knowledgeable/ have treated the horse before for the same problem.
 
I dont know what else I can do TBH.
I have told her numerous times that he might not be suited to barefoot. Have pointed out lots of things that would suggest this but each and every time the barefoot trimmer talks her way out of it.
Last night I scared her into calling the vet by mentioning laminitus. I also told her if it was me I would be livid and baying for blood.
Other than screaming at her that she is being a blinkin idiot and is being cruel to her horse I just dont know what to do.
 
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