Help needed re running a yard or do I give up.

B

Bertieboy

Member
Joined
7 September 2013
Messages
22
Location
Herts
Visit site
Im trying go decide the best course of action regarding my yard.
This may get long!

I had a small yard with part and full liveries , it wasnt making a fortune but i had a bit of cash. I then took on a much bigger yard which is full but im struggling each month to cover the costs.
They have their hay , straw and feed included and there are 26 horses in so i have a minumum of 4 staff to do them in the morming and two in the afternoon. My staff bill is huge, my hay bill is huge as is the feed and straw. They have nuts or mix, chaff and beet.

Facilities wise they have a small indoor, hot wash box, indoor walker, huge lit outdoor, gallops, amazing hacking amd really nice stables.

We do everything other than groom butbwe do pick and wash feet, we poo pick every day and the yard and facilities are kept spotless and well maintained.

They pay £16 PER day which isnt covering the cost of everything and i feel its a lot of work for no pay. I also think i am far cheaper than any other yard in the area ( berks/ Hamps borders) but provide a super smart yard with top facilities .

I know i need to make an increase but im terrified of everyone leaving if i do or do i think of cutting down horses meaninga decrease in the need for staff, hay, feed etc as long as i had enough in to cover the cost of things and pay me a small wage.

The staff are there 8 till 1 and 2 till 6.
The other opitions are to sub let a portion of the yard, maybe take on resting polo ponies or racehorses who pay more money per day or just give up.

Any ideas as to the best way forrward. I love the yard.
 
You can't run a business if your expenditure is greater than your earnings. I wouldn't give up, I would charge more. Although they know what a good deal they are getting expect a few grumbles. The point is you're not a charity! If they leave you will get others. You obviously provide a great service. Put yourself first!
 
Bertieboy said:
Im trying go decide the best course of action regarding my yard.
This may get long!

I had a small yard with part and full liveries , it wasnt making a fortune but i had a bit of cash. I then took on a much bigger yard which is full but im struggling each month to cover the costs.
They have their hay , straw and feed included and there are 26 horses in so i have a minumum of 4 staff to do them in the morming and two in the afternoon. My staff bill is huge, my hay bill is huge as is the feed and straw. They have nuts or mix, chaff and beet.

Facilities wise they have a small indoor, hot wash box, indoor walker, huge lit outdoor, gallops, amazing hacking amd really nice stables.

We do everything other than groom butbwe do pick and wash feet, we poo pick every day and the yard and facilities are kept spotless and well maintained.

They pay £16 PER day which isnt covering the cost of everything and i feel its a lot of work for no pay. I also think i am far cheaper than any other yard in the area ( berks/ Hamps borders) but provide a super smart yard with top facilities .

I know i need to make an increase but im terrified of everyone leaving if i do or do i think of cutting down horses meaninga decrease in the need for staff, hay, feed etc as long as i had enough in to cover the cost of things and pay me a small wage.

The staff are there 8 till 1 and 2 till 6.
The other opitions are to sub let a portion of the yard, maybe take on resting polo ponies or racehorses who pay more money per day or just give up.

Any ideas as to the best way forrward. I love the yard.
Click to expand...

Do they all have to be in? What is your grass like? Do you have single turnout or herd turnout? Are you rotating your fields are harrowing or poo picking every single poo? Are you feeding from round bales or individual bales? You don’t need hard feed if they have ad lib forage, perhaps liveries can agree to pay more if they want hard feed or haylage? It is labour intensive to manage a straw bed and there is a lot of waste on muckheap. Have you thought about pellets? If you are cheaper than any other yard and have better facilities, it’s time to raise your prices to the same levels at least ....
 
£112pw for part livery in Herts, with the facilities you have is way too cheap.

Within a London commuter belt I’d be expecting £135-140 minimum
 
£16 a day is only £112 a week. If you are doing full livery more or less, that’s not enough... round here in Wales what you are offering is £130 or more. With your facilities I am sure you can attain it. Sub lett8ng some Stables could be worth looking into, as you would just rent the space...no need to have staff.
DIY livery with hay and bedding is £50 round here... think you need to up the prices to keep going..
 
I would put your prices up, sounds a great yard. You may lose some liveries to start with but I'm sure other liveries will come along.
 
You are far too cheap. I pay far far more in rural Derbyshire without as good facilities .

When I set up my business I went in way too low having messed up my business plan/financial forecasting. If was difficult to increase prices dramatically for existing clients but I had no choice. A few looked around elsewhere and could not find a cheaper competitor so no one left. I was just honest and said I was a new business and had miscalculated but now needed to charge a more realistic price. And I encouraged them to look around at the competition as I was confident I was still good value. Just be upfront and honest. If anyone leaves you'll soon replace them.
 
Bertieboy said:
Im trying go decide the best course of action regarding my yard.
This may get long!

I had a small yard with part and full liveries , it wasnt making a fortune but i had a bit of cash. I then took on a much bigger yard which is full but im struggling each month to cover the costs.
They have their hay , straw and feed included and there are 26 horses in so i have a minumum of 4 staff to do them in the morming and two in the afternoon. My staff bill is huge, my hay bill is huge as is the feed and straw. They have nuts or mix, chaff and beet.

Facilities wise they have a small indoor, hot wash box, indoor walker, huge lit outdoor, gallops, amazing hacking amd really nice stables.

We do everything other than groom butbwe do pick and wash feet, we poo pick every day and the yard and facilities are kept spotless and well maintained.

They pay £16 PER day which isnt covering the cost of everything and i feel its a lot of work for no pay. I also think i am far cheaper than any other yard in the area ( berks/ Hamps borders) but provide a super smart yard with top facilities .

I know i need to make an increase but im terrified of everyone leaving if i do or do i think of cutting down horses meaninga decrease in the need for staff, hay, feed etc as long as i had enough in to cover the cost of things and pay me a small wage.


The staff are there 8 till 1 and 2 till 6.
The other opitions are to sub let a portion of the yard, maybe take on resting polo ponies or racehorses who pay more money per day or just give up.

Any ideas as to the best way forrward. I love the yard.
Click to expand...

We are part livery and it is £ 15 per day per horse - so In my books your well below what I would expect for full livery. I would say sit down with your accountant or hubby and review the cost per day and find out here what full livery is and target somewhere in the middle going on facilities and where you are in the country. That is what I would do In your shoes.

ihatework said:
£112pw for part livery in Herts, with the facilities you have is way too cheap.

Within a London commuter belt I’d be expecting £135-140 minimum
Click to expand...
Wow and some of mine moaned they could not afford the £ 3 increase instead of the usual £ 2. I know we are cheaper than other';s around us.
 
Last edited:
I pay £125 a week for 5 day part livery in Berks - for your services and your facilities, around here Id expect to pay £145-160 a week. Could you offer a five day service for a bit less, so that any real grumblers have the choice of paying less but doing more themselves? Understand if you’d rather not have liveries interrupting your normal work though! Most of them probably know how good a deal you’re offering, and they definitely won’t be able to leave and go somewhere cheaper, with the same facilities!
 
Too cheap. I'm on bucks / ox borders and around here DIY is about £35 - £50 a week just for stable / paddock / outdoor arena. Add on £10 for straw and £10-15 hay. If i want the yard to muck-out that's £5 and feed around £2 (I provide the feed). Bring in / take out / feet is another £2

Perhaps stagger in the price increase, but definitely don't make a loss. If you find yourself with empty boxes there will always be someone who wants them on a diy basis.
 
I am in a similar situation.
I have put my prices up a bit but still barley making a wage.
Shop around wherever possible.
Put your prices up... do some market research and see what about in the area. Don't undercut people too much as it's rude to other livery yards and makes life difficult for everyone.
 
Think of it this way, if you put your prices up and people leave, you rent boxes. If it fails you give up. Or you just give up without trying anything. You really can’t be any worse off by trying.
 
I agree you need to put your prices up. I would do two things when you do this - write a letter to all your liveries explaining the situation, cost of staff, increase in cost of hay etc. Without sounding defensive explain that you have no choice to increase the price, tell then how much you value their business. Second, give them fair notice of the increase and maybe phase it in.
if they choose to go I am guessing there will be demand for your facilities so you should have no problem filling spaces.
Good luck
 
How much would you need to charge per week to make it pay?

Be wary of some things that sound as though they save money but don't. Trying to get people on a part livery deal to accept a reduction in services or perceived quality is unlikely to be popular and you're even more likely to annoy or lose them than you are by putting the prices up. Offering five day livery won't save you any staff time unless you lose enough horses on weekend days to reduce by a whole member of staff.

You have a good product - price it fairly and don't think twice about it! People who can afford £116pw for livery are hardly living on the breadline, and if they can find a cheaper deal with the same quality and facilities I'm sure they'll take it. It should not be you losing out to subsidise a luxury hobby!
 
You need to sit down and do a balance sheet. Including everything ( don’t forget insurance and accountancy fees!).

Then look to see if there is anything you can make savings. Are you paying too much for hay? Can you bulk buy feed? Do you need so many staff? ( I’m not saying you can cut these but look at them).

Then once you have your total expenditure, you can work out what you need to come in and take into consideration profit.

Some might leave, are yards full round your area? Get more clients easily?

People also like options and don’t like paying more for the same thing. Can you give 2 options of for example £100 for assisted ( if enough uptake you could need less staff) or £140 for “full non riding” (maybe include things like 2 annual clips, attendance for vet, Farrier, a proper groom each week etc) The old tariff doesn’t exist.
 
Just put up your prices I fail to see how you can offer all that for less than £20 a day .life is too short to support other people’s hobbies at the cost of your own life .
If they all leave and others don’t come then crack on and sublet or do resting racehorses .
They won’t all leave .
You will need to tell them up front you are losing money and you won’t go on if they value your well run tidy yard they will pay up .
 
I have worked out that to keep a horse at my yard including all cost except staff is about 12.80 a day. I am up north so "probably" pay less for haylage and business rates are low o this property. So charging your price of around 16.00 I would be earning 3.20 a day per horse... then you pay staff...
You are not a charity paying for other people to have a nice hobby...
 
'The first duty of a business is to survive, and the guiding principle of business economics is not the maximisation of profit, it is the avoidance of loss (Quote Peter Drucker, founder of the MBA).

This is exactly where you are.

It sounds like you don't have much of an option of reducing the current costs significantly, so it can only mean increasing revenue.

I would very politely explain the situation to the existing liveries, that the current situation is unsustainable and there are only two options, either a fee increase or you shut down. (The fee increase could be incremental over a period of time to soften the blow slightly). Its certainly worth getting an idea of what liveries charge for similar facilities and services within a 20 mile radius to give you an idea of what the going rate is.

I am no economics expert, but I have been involved in business's that have been successful and failed, and one theme of the ones that failed was that they lost sight of the basics early, and didn't respond fast enough to changes.

You are doing the right thing by recognising the issue now, and responding while there are options open to you.
 
Goldenstar said:
Just put up your prices I fail to see how you can offer all that for less than £20 a day .life is too short to support other people’s hobbies at the cost of your own life .
If they all leave and others don’t come then crack on and sublet or do resting racehorses .
They won’t all leave .
You will need to tell them up front you are losing money and you won’t go on if they value your well run tidy yard they will pay up .
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
if you think you might have to give up anyway, as an alternative have a meeting when everyone is there, and tell them straight you are jacking it in or putting up the prices, not one or two quid but to a fair market level that cover the costs and pays you a wage, because it too much work for you to not get paid to live.

sometimes you have to be brave, yes you can diversify if you lose some, but in the medium term you will pick up others, but will they leave with such great facilities including a gallop!

you sound a great worker doing your best, horses need yards run be people like you.
 
Break down the £16 per day and show exactly what you get and how much it would charge individually (including use of faculties) i bet you'll find you're undercharging.

Your yard sounds fab.

Up here there's a yard charging £105 per week for muck out, hay and bedding, basic feed(cheapest of chaff and cubes) turn out and bring in. Anything over and above that gets charged extra ontop. They have small indoor and big outdoor arena and decent hacking but no walker or gallops or hot wash.
 
Be honest with your liveries. Give them the option of you giving up the yard or putting your prices up. I'm sure the majority of them will welcome the price hike over having to find another yard with good facilities and having to move!
 
I think you need to tell everyone that you need to put the prices up, you can be fairly blunt and say its either that or close down as you can no longer run at a loss. Your liveries have 2 choices, stay and pay the new price or leave. If your increases more accurately reflect the true cost they wont find anywhere comparable cheaper, those who want less facilities will find somewhere that better suits their needs and you can fill the boxes with new clients. I honestly dont think its sensible to continue to run barely breaking even, why would you even want to do that, assuming that this is your business and not a hobby. You do sound massively underpriced to me, based on what I know the costs are around me.
 
too cheap. put prices up. let people know why ie yard is only just breaking even/running at a loss and if prices don't go up it will close. if people leave then so be it. others will come. or you could wait til you had, say 6 empty stables and take in the polo ponies. if fact having 2 different sorts of client like this is a good idea its hedging your bets.
 
Prices do sound like they need to go up. I have had several livery price increases over the years and whilst never easy to stomach it has never once made me leave a yard. Horses cost what they cost and as owner we need to accept that!! For reference I am in Hampshire on a yard with amazing facilities (huge indoor, 2 outdoors), top quality feed, hay, bedding, all year T/O and amazing care/staff but pay £140 a week for 5 day part livery (Mon-Fri, full care and Sat/Sun, I muck out and put to bed, all hay/bedding/feed included). There are then less yard staff needed at the weekends.
 
Thank you so much. There is no where else in the area that has the same facilties kept to the same standard. So many good ideas. Guess i need to put the brave pants on .
I dont want to give it up, ive worked so hard for it but the increases in everything is unmanagable. Thanks again
 
Also worth looking at how much you are paying for hay and straw if I use 8ft straw bales it costs around £1 for the amount you get in a standard small bale. Hay should be no more than £3 for small bales we use the large round type which are a lot cheaper.

Even the full livery yards charge extra for short feed where I live
 
You need to up your prices, that is very cheap for this area!! If they leave, then they leave, but if standards are high and facilities are good then you should have no trouble replacing them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top