Help needed - serious loaning trouble!

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horsemum

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I'm betting on being told it's my own fault for not signing anything but here goes...

At the start of of the year I loaned my pony out to my yard owner as a companion
All expenses agreed to be paid by loaner (yard owner)
Fast forward to summer and I am asked (sorry, TOLD) to sign the pony's ownership form over to her because she has paid for her all winter so is 'entitled' to her.
She tells me my options are either to transfer ownership to her or she will calculate the money she spent on the pony all winter and I can pay it back before getting access to pony.

The entire time I had repeatedly asked the loaner (bearing in mind she was the yard owner where I kept my other horse) to let me know the exact T&Cs of the agreement so that I could put it in writing and I was fobbed off each time - too busy, going to do it 'tonight' etc

She says if I have either not signed ownership over to her or paid the money by tomorrow she will be selling the pony to recover costs - she has locked the passports away.

I am at a loss.
I will be moving my other horse as soon as possible, but she will not let me access the pony (security entry gates)

I have since found out she is barred from many local vets/farriers because of her antics and local horsey people are of the opinion that she is a nutter. Wish I had known this sooner.

Any help will be gratefully recieved
 
Sounds like theft to me. I would contact the BHS and also get legal advice. May cost you a bit, but may save a lot of grief and cash in the long run.
 
The best I can offer is for you to get legal advise as soon as possible. Call the BHS helpline ; get a solicitor involved. This sounds as if it could get nasty. Good luck.
 
How about contacting the police. Your yard owner has no proof of her side either its her word against yours and she is holding your property unlawfuly
If i were you i would find another yard fast and get the police to supervise your move to keep the peace i would NOT want to keep my horse there after all the bad feeling this will have caused
 
The passport is not proof of ownership. Contact the passport issuing office (you can get a copy of the passport and tell them not to change the ownership) and I would also contact the police.
 
Just to add - yesterday she shod my horse without my permission and is demanding the money.
She frequently adds extras to my bill without asking or reason - because of this I owe her £250.
She refused to stop putting on my horses fly mask even though his face was rubbed to the skin.
Likewise with his shoulder vest.
She cut his forelock and tail without asking (he is an arab... I'm sure you can imagine the devastation).
She has put him on to full livery from grass livery without permission and I am expected to pay the newly increased bills.

I could go on and on... this is what I am dealing with. Today's visit (when I found out about the shoeing) ended in a shouting match on the yard because she pressed my last nerve and my boyfriend (who I have been taking recently for backup as she has been so nasty) trying to keep the peace.

I'ts a nightmare. I've heard so many horror yard stories and never thought it would happen to me. Cliche or what!
 
Faracat said:
The passport is not proof of ownership. Contact the passport issuing office (you can get a copy of the passport and tell them not to change the ownership) and I would also contact the police.
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She has the change of ownership form all filled out it's just waiting for my signature which she tried to force me to do today. I hadn't thought of contacting the passport office - so thank you so much Faracat. I would not put it past her to forge my signature.
 
I have nowhere to take them - viewing a yard tomorrow. She is saying because I owe her £250 for the arab (added costs) and costs for the pony from when she took her on loan I cannot take the horses off the premises until I pay her.
 
horsemum said:
I have nowhere to take them - viewing a yard tomorrow. She is saying because I owe her £250 for the arab (added costs) and costs for the pony from when she took her on loan I cannot take the horses off the premises until I pay her.
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The police will help you will be able to move your horses and they will stay there to keep the peace
Take it from me i have used the service as my yard owner and her mother attacked me
 
She said she lost the farrier receipt but would write it down for me. Asides from that I do owe her a few weeks' livery because after giving her nearly £140 for the added on extras I then fell behind on my livery.
 
Do you have a contract? If not, she can't prove what you owe her either way. I know that sounds harsh, but listening to one side of the story it does sound like she is mad. If she is barred by local vets etc, then I wonder if she is already known to the police, they may have had to go and help people move before. Find somewhere for the horses asap, then remove your horses, and whatever gear you have there immediately. Personally I would move all stuff before the horses, so that she doesn't realise. Do you have transport, or do you need to0 get someone in?
 
I feel sure your horse is worth more than £ 250 she can only keep goods to the value and she has to prove you owe the money in the first place
The police will help to to remove your horses and she will, just like any business will have to recover her loses through the courts and they only work on evidence
 
zaminda said:
Do you have a contract? If not, she can't prove what you owe her either way. I know that sounds harsh, but listening to one side of the story it does sound like she is mad. If she is barred by local vets etc, then I wonder if she is already known to the police, they may have had to go and help people move before. Find somewhere for the horses asap, then remove your horses, and whatever gear you have there immediately. Personally I would move all stuff before the horses, so that she doesn't realise. Do you have transport, or do you need to0 get someone in?
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Funnily enough, yes she is well known to the police. She regularly causes trouble and involves them. Each time something doesn't go her way she plays the 'my husband is a lawyer so I know best' card.

I would need to somehow organise transport. God knows. I feel terrible at the thought of dragging some unsuspecting person in to the middle of all this. I took some of my stuff today while I was there. All that is remaining is tack and my hat.
 
You need to get your horse (and pony ideally) off the yard asap, even if it means moving somewhere temporarily that is too far / expensive and then moving again. Now she knows you are leaving she is likely to only get worse and that is her hold over you, once they are gone it is her word against yours and she would need to take you to court if she was going to continue demanding money (or a pony). I would try and get away when she isn't around, and make sure you have some people with you - the more the better. If your horse isn't a good loader you might want to lead / ride him somewhere and load him well away from the yard as a confrontation going on while trying to load is a recipe for disaster.

Write everything down, dates etc, relating to the financial side (i.e. the loan and the livery extras, not things like the cut mane). Get together anything you do have written down, even if its just text messages. If it does go further you will find this really helpful.

If you really can't physically get to the pony to remove it I would wait until you have the horse moved and then send her a solicitors letter saying you will take her to court for the return of your property. If she tries to sell it this is definately stealing, and you could get the police involved, so I suspect this is just a threat to get you to sign it over. Although what she is doing at the moment is illegal I suspect at the moment the police will say it is a civil matter unfortunately.
 
zaminda said:
Do you have a contract? If not, she can't prove what you owe her either way. I know that sounds harsh, but listening to one side of the story it does sound like she is mad. If she is barred by local vets etc, then I wonder if she is already known to the police, they may have had to go and help people move before. Find somewhere for the horses asap, then remove your horses, and whatever gear you have there immediately. Personally I would move all stuff before the horses, so that she doesn't realise. Do you have transport, or do you need to0 get someone in?
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harveysmom said:
I feel sure your horse is worth more than £ 250 she can only keep goods to the value and she has to prove you owe the money in the first place
The police will help to to remove your horses and she will, just like any business will have to recover her loses through the courts and they only work on evidence
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Also, no contract for either horse. I repeatedly asked for one but nothing came of it.

Both horses worth more than £250, which is why she wants the pony as she will make money from her as a broodmare, she comes from brilliant lineage. As does the arab, although he is older and gelded he would still do well in the show ring - which is what she wants.
 
laura_nash said:
You need to get your horse (and pony ideally) off the yard asap, even if it means moving somewhere temporarily that is too far / expensive and then moving again. Now she knows you are leaving she is likely to only get worse and that is her hold over you, once they are gone it is her word against yours and she would need to take you to court if she was going to continue demanding money (or a pony). I would try and get away when she isn't around, and make sure you have some people with you - the more the better. If your horse isn't a good loader you might want to lead / ride him somewhere and load him well away from the yard as a confrontation going on while trying to load is a recipe for disaster.

Write everything down, dates etc, relating to the financial side (i.e. the loan and the livery extras, not things like the cut mane). Get together anything you do have written down, even if its just text messages. If it does go further you will find this really helpful.

If you really can't physically get to the pony to remove it I would wait until you have the horse moved and then send her a solicitors letter saying you will take her to court for the return of your property. If she tries to sell it this is definately stealing, and you could get the police involved, so I suspect this is just a threat to get you to sign it over. Although what she is doing at the moment is illegal I suspect at the moment the police will say it is a civil matter unfortunately.
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I would get the police involved early as she will have sold the pony before the solicitors letter arrives
You maybe right about being a civil matter regards any money outstanding but horse theft is a crime
 
laura_nash said:
You need to get your horse (and pony ideally) off the yard asap, even if it means moving somewhere temporarily that is too far / expensive and then moving again. Now she knows you are leaving she is likely to only get worse and that is her hold over you, once they are gone it is her word against yours and she would need to take you to court if she was going to continue demanding money (or a pony). I would try and get away when she isn't around, and make sure you have some people with you - the more the better. If your horse isn't a good loader you might want to lead / ride him somewhere and load him well away from the yard as a confrontation going on while trying to load is a recipe for disaster.

Write everything down, dates etc, relating to the financial side (i.e. the loan and the livery extras, not things like the cut mane). Get together anything you do have written down, even if its just text messages. If it does go further you will find this really helpful.

If you really can't physically get to the pony to remove it I would wait until you have the horse moved and then send her a solicitors letter saying you will take her to court for the return of your property. If she tries to sell it this is definately stealing, and you could get the police involved, so I suspect this is just a threat to get you to sign it over. Although what she is doing at the moment is illegal I suspect at the moment the police will say it is a civil matter unfortunately.
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She is rarely off the yard unfortunately and will probably change the gate code after today's argument.
 
Lets put this another way
You owe me £250 as well now for my advice
would you worry about trying to pay me for making up stupid reasons why you owe me money
I think not
 
She sounds like she's seriously lost the plot! people like her give yard owners/managers a bad name! I'd be going down tonight and cutting the fence down and take my pony and horse away! I'm sure you could find a nice farmer that would lend you a field for a few weeks!

Fingers x'd you get it all sorted!
 
Kezzabell2 said:
She sounds like she's seriously lost the plot! people like her give yard owners/managers a bad name! I'd be going down tonight and cutting the fence down and take my pony and horse away! I'm sure you could find a nice farmer that would lend you a field for a few weeks!

Fingers x'd you get it all sorted!
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Have to agree with you no **** nutter would stop me taking my horses
 
Kezzabell2 said:
She sounds like she's seriously lost the plot! people like her give yard owners/managers a bad name! I'd be going down tonight and cutting the fence down and take my pony and horse away! I'm sure you could find a nice farmer that would lend you a field for a few weeks!

Fingers x'd you get it all sorted!
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I'd end up electrocuted! But the farmer idea is a good one, thank you! I'll start figuring out who I can call
 
Omg this is such an upsetting story :( I really hope you get it sorted out. I'm sorry I can't offer an advice, but you have my full sympathy.
 
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