Help new horse rearing and spinning in school

floradora said:
How about trying a new instructor? Did yours ride the horse at the viewing? You say the horse was fine for a while, when you first got it home. Did instructer ride it during this period? If they're not experienced enough to help you through this then maybe you should try somebody else. If,as you say , you were sold a tester- why didn't it nap or rear during the 4 times you saw it ridden? Or shortly after you got it home? No doping substance would work for that long. Your instructor should recognise a sedated horse, vet certainly would have done at vetting.
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Why would the intructor notice a sedated horse ?it's not something you ride often , mild sedation is very difficult to spot , there would be no reason to sedate it for vetting .
Sometimes naughty horses behave the first few days in a new home before starting testing stuff out .
 
Shivvy - I'm going to go against the grain here.

I WOULDN'T get back person, chiro, mctimoney etc to treat your horse. If you want to try and return this horse then the seller could refuse to accept him back because you've had 'manipulation' or work done that they didnt approve. They could say your expert ruined/hurt/damaged him.

I have great respect for these type of experts and have them regularly to my horses, but in this instance I wouldn't let anyone treat the horse.

I guess you have to decide what you want to do with the horse. If you want to keep the horse and sort out the problems, then of course, get the experts in. If you want to return the horse, then don't have the experts.
 
Any experienced person should be able to spot a slightly sedated horse at a viewing. If you felt the need to give a small amount of say, sedalin in a viewing- then maybe you would do the same at vetting. After all, horses are ridden during the vetting and the purchaser often present to note horses behaviour had changed since viewing
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks so much all for constructive suggestions as prev owner is a useful as the sheepskin nose band she suggested!!! He was quite expensive but ok priced for his type ISH x Holstiener ready to affiliate or RC activities.
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Have you actually tried the sheepskin noseband? You may scoff at her suggestion but she knows the horse a darn sight better than you do and it could be the case of it needs the sheepskin noseband.
 
Why don't you try long reining the horse a couple of times around the school, on short walks out with either a roller on or the saddle. Means the horse is getting to see its new environment and also, you are safe being on the ground.

I did alot of this with my spooky horse, and it improved her quite a bit, dont get me wrong she isnt boomproof but its good to try.
 
Shivvy

Quote de Pale Rider Too much turn out too soon I reckon.

Massive change in diet, and a new environment.

Recipe for disaster.

Didn't change diet. Couldn't ride as no saddle until fitted.

If the horse was only getting 2 hrs turnout in his old home, then he comes to you and the turnout is dramatically increased, he will be eating much more grass.
This year particularly the grazing has been fairly abundant. I would say that his diet has been changed.
The sugar content of grazing will be higher than hay or haylage which I presume he was being fed previously.
 
Goldenstar said:
Why would the intructor notice a sedated horse ?it's not something you ride often , mild sedation is very difficult to spot , there would be no reason to sedate it for vetting .
Sometimes naughty horses behave the first few days in a new home before starting testing stuff out .
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Agree GS I'm not necessarily just thinking sedation here but maybe a calmer or as someone said water withholding to take edge off.

In response to other points. All visits were pre arranged he was always turned out and brought in so could have been possible but it may just be a response to the move He was more placid in her yard and good to ride - without the miracle sheepskin nose band (no i'm not going to try that as currently I have zero respect for her advice if she is too scared to come and ride herself)). The settling in stuff is fine and was expected he is a living creature with a response to the change but the rearing looks like a pattern hence my question to seller "did this happen for you when you first had him and if so how did you get around this?"

This is the crux of my problem with the seller because if she has knowingly sold a horse that can have an extreme panic response to new situations or needs the edge taking off with a calmer then she should have come clean. He was really very dangerous yesterday we are not talking a little leg lift or buck etc.

Anyway she is still in hiding so sadly I may have to progress legal options as she won't do the decent thing. I would have been really happy to see her ride him thru it and help us to understand a route to work on this issue - it feels like she has failed him twice.
 
Pale Rider said:
Shivvy

Quote de Pale Rider Too much turn out too soon I reckon.

Massive change in diet, and a new environment.

Recipe for disaster.

Didn't change diet. Couldn't ride as no saddle until fitted.

If the horse was only getting 2 hrs turnout in his old home, then he comes to you and the turnout is dramatically increased, he will be eating much more grass.
This year particularly the grazing has been fairly abundant. I would say that his diet has been changed.
The sugar content of grazing will be higher than hay or haylage which I presume he was being fed previously.
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This may well be right,
I would have lunged and lead from another horse to keep work levels up i never let a new horse go without work,
however PR this does sound like more than too little work and too much grass .
 
floradora said:
Any experienced person should be able to spot a slightly sedated horse at a viewing. If you felt the need to give a small amount of say, sedalin in a viewing- then maybe you would do the same at vetting. After all, horses are ridden during the vetting and the purchaser often present to note horses behaviour had changed since viewing
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You might be able to spot a slightly sedated horse you knew but I don't think you can say you could definatly spot a slightly sedated horse you don't know because you dont know normal for that horse and there are better things you could use than sedaline if unscrupulous .
Many things short of sedation could have been done to the horse
Withholding water ,
Being on the walker all night ,
Several hours walking exercise before the viewing or absolutely nothing and the horse is just taking exception to its new home for some reason.
 
Pale Rider said:
Shivvy

Quote de Pale Rider Too much turn out too soon I reckon.

Massive change in diet, and a new environment.

Recipe for disaster.

Didn't change diet. Couldn't ride as no saddle until fitted.

If the horse was only getting 2 hrs turnout in his old home, then he comes to you and the turnout is dramatically increased, he will be eating much more grass.
This year particularly the grazing has been fairly abundant. I would say that his diet has been changed.
The sugar content of grazing will be higher than hay or haylage which I presume he was being fed previously.
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Thanks I understand now my grass is poor but could be a factor. Should that make him explode not just be full of himself? I would like to think that could be the case but he lived out 24 7 before she moved him to sell him 4 weeks ago. Suppose the question is was he was difficult before on more turnout high sugar but that is another one she is not going to answer.:(
 
I've come across a few horse's displaying similar behavior which have a fairly low tolerance for sugar. The behavior displayed can often be dramatic and violent. Obviously a high workload will lessen the effect.
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks I understand now my grass is poor but could be a factor. Should that make him explode not just be full of himself? I would like to think that could be the case but he lived out 24 7 before she moved him to sell him 4 weeks ago. Suppose the question is was he was difficult before on more turnout high sugar but that is another one she is not going to answer.:(
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This sticks out for me - so the horse hasn't just moved once in the past few weeks, but twice? I would have said he was still pre the testing boundaries stage when you tried him out and now everything has just got too much for him.

Why was he being sold? Did you buy him through a sales yard?
 
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The horse has had a lot of change I forget how old OP said he was I worry reading that why the horse was out 24/7 and why he was moved and sold .
 
I used to have a horse that would be unbearable every time he went into a new field with more grass. I'm talking about rearing up in hand when I tried to bring him in, refusing to stand to be tied, groomed etc, and would gallop full pelt round on the lunge.

As soon as the grass went down he went back to his usual self again.

Are you able to bring him in during the day and give him soaked hay as an experiment to see if it is a sugar intolerance?
 
CobsGalore said:
I used to have a horse that would be unbearable every time he went into a new field with more grass. I'm talking about rearing up in hand when I tried to bring him in, refusing to stand to be tied, groomed etc, and would gallop full pelt round on the lunge.

As soon as the grass went down he went back to his usual self again.

Are you able to bring him in during the day and give him soaked hay as an experiment?
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This is a good idea or keep in for 48 hours turning out only in the school Feeding only soaked hay if you get a big improvement in behaviour then grass or really sugar is the issue.
 
If you have seen him ridden 4 times prior to purchase, and jumped him, and got her to sign a paper saying he doesn't rear, (something new to me), now he does.
It all seems a bit weird. That's an awful lot of dopeing and exhaustion prior to your rides.
Why worry about rearing before you bought him?
 
Pale Rider said:
If you have seen him ridden 4 times prior to purchase, and jumped him, and got her to sign a paper saying he doesn't rear, (something new to me), now he does.
It all seems a bit weird. That's an awful lot of dopeing and exhaustion prior to your rides.
Why worry about rearing before you bought him?
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I'm sorry PR I must slow today and missing the point here isn't it perfectly normal to carry out pre purchase enquiries and obtain warrenties for vices and behavioural problems where the seller is happy to provide this and if present where they would a) impact suitabilty for the intended job or b)prove undesirable to the purchaser?
 
Goldenstar said:
Can you lunge him? Or get him led from another horse.or do both.
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GS he seems to lunge ok so that might be the way with long reining in fields.

Bright eyes are you asking or telling? Not sure - if you are asking happy to explain my approach to proof of purchase and written warrenties. Nothing is certain in terms of horse purchasing and proof of ownership but the sales contract I drew up reflected our conversations over each meeting and telephone call and questions asked and adverts. Then at least you can prove intent and that the questions were asked and the responses that were given are recorded and agreed by both parties and witnesses - I also had her sign copies of the adverts to vouch for advert claims and stated clearly his microchip mumber, age and intended purpose and that he was free from vices and named behavioral issues and named the ones I felt were key which included but not limited to rearing.

No doubt that will annoy some but that's not the question I'm asking on this thread as I'm content with that approach myself. ;)
 
Devil and deep blue sea. I see a lot of new horses coming in as babies as am on an event/ livery yard. In the main there is often a complete sea change in terms of character and behaviour once they start to feel a bit more settled and having increased feed. It's rather expected now and dealt with accordingly.

So you are having the bloods tested. You showed willing by having a warranty signed. I would agree you should do nothing in terms of dentist etc at this point until you decide if you are keeping this horse. Go after the seller again but in the background i think that a eventer looking could be a good idea as at the least you have another external professionals opinion. The only thing that does spring to mind though is you have a new saddle and I would look at that again as well. Good luck I hope you resolve this...
 
Then I would lunge or long rien him daily or do both if you have time keep his mind busy and it's a good way to do some basic obedience work , make sure the lunging is about obedience not whizzing around in circles you could use poles on the ground to increase the variety ,try to establish a roultine that keeps him as busy as possible spend time with him and try to get to know him.
You can learn a lot about a horses character by lunging and Long riening.
 
How was he described in the seller's advert?

If you think she may be a dealer have you tried googling her phone number to see if it brings up any other horses?
 
Shivvy, I'm trying to help you here, so please bear with me.

Looking back at your previous posts you talk about getting his passport sorted out and that you are now his 5th owner including his breeder. He's still a young horse so to have that many owners is quite a lot.

I think I found his advert on horsemart but won't post it on here. But looking at the seller's you tube account she is certainly in the horse business and has sold/is selling at least a couple of other horses. That I think would make her a trade seller (even though she claims to be private), which should at least help you in terms of come back. Am I barking up the right or wrong tree here?
 
You stated in your post that she 'is to scared to come and ride the horse herself'. If she herself said this, do you have a record of it? Or is it just something you assumed in the heat of the moment? If she rode the horse herself at the viewings, then there should be no reason she wouldnt again. But..... if the horse wasn't a rearer beforehand, who can blame her if she doesnt want to come and get on it now . In her mind you have caused the behaviour and possibly the horse may also be a little 'fresh' now he's not doing much. If you could find a way of revealing horse identity/ breeding on here (without naming her) , somebody may recognise him. The horse world can be very small ! I recall a similar situation, an old video on you tube was found of the horse which showed it rearing in collecting ring. Vendor took horse back and refunded cost. Have you done extensive googling of horse and all known owners?
 
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