Help with a big tanking horse!

AdorableAlice said:
Classic.

That idealistic comment has just put a lot of big hunters on the dole.

I keep horses to enjoy them. I expect them to respect me. In return I lavish a lot of money, time and heartbreak on them.

A sharp bit used properly is far better than continual hauling on a snaffle. The same as a good poke with spurs is better than non stop nagging with the leg. The same applies to the whip, if it is necessary to use it at all, use it once and mean it.

I will bow to your knowledge of riding 18h fit heavyweights (my lad was 3/4 of a ton on the weighbridge) and I off to buy a rubber snaffle for the next H/W I am growing in the shed.
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Well lets agree to disagree... :)
 
Wow - some pretty holier than thou comments on here!

I've always had big horses, and most of them have been well schooled, worked at a decent level, and been light, responsive rides. Didn't stop them getting a bit jolly and pissing off sometimes, just because they were feeling good/keen.

My horse is a PSG dressage horse, who is extremely mannerly to ride, but he threw in some spectacular airs above the ground and bogged off across the common with me a few weeks ago. Does that indicate a gap in his schooling, or just a bit of personality. I know what I think!!
 
Auslander said:
Wow - some pretty holier than thou comments on here!

I've always had big horses, and most of them have been well schooled, worked at a decent level, and been light, responsive rides. Didn't stop them getting a bit jolly and pissing off sometimes, just because they were feeling good/keen.

My horse is a PSG dressage horse, who is extremely mannerly to ride, but he threw in some spectacular airs above the ground and bogged off across the common with me a few weeks ago. Does that indicate a gap in his schooling, or just a bit of personality. I know what I think!!
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But this isn't a thread about a one off time the horse was strong or tanked, its a general comment that the horse is strong jumping, which to me screams go back to basics as others have suggested doing on here!
 
ImmyS said:
But this isn't a thread about a one off time the horse was strong or tanked, its a general comment that the horse is strong jumping, which to me screams go back to basics as others have suggested doing on here!
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Yes - but several people suggested that sometimes horses just get strong/silly, and it isn't always a schooling issue. I used to jump a former advanced horse who was about as well schooled as they came on the flat, but took off like the hounds of hell were after him when you turned towards a fence. Nothing you did made the slightest bit of difference - he knew his job, and he did it his way.

I'm not disagreeing that this particular horse may benefit from a bit of groundwork, and some jumping exercises to get him thinking and listening more btw. I just got cross that people like AA were getting grief, when she is one poster who clearly knows her stuff, and makes a lot of sense.
 
ImmyS said:
But this isn't a thread about a one off time the horse was strong or tanked, its a general comment that the horse is strong jumping, which to me screams go back to basics as others have suggested doing on here!
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And yet AA's thread started with the info that her horse was a show horse. So therefore he had to be schooled to be a light and easy ride, for a variety of people. I am 100% with AA on this, I have had horses who will school beautifully in a snaffle, showjump in a snaffle but for hunting and XC they needed something which was a lot stronger. It is a far far safer idea to bit up and be in control rather than causing an accident. You can school XC, you can take your horse out on quieter days and cubbing but with a load of horses and a horse that knows what will happen XC the excitement level goes right up and through the ceiling! I would consider my young horse quite well schooled, well used to hacking, well used to cantering in company but when I finally take him hunting, he will go up bitting wise as I have no idea how he will react. It really won't hurt him! he literally started to tank when I last jumped him in a lesson and THAT is a a schooling issue and will be treated as such but out hunting? safety first.
 
Ha haaa loving the hunting commentary from AdorableAlice, wonderfully put.

Agree some horses forget there butter mouths when there heads are somewhere else or enjoying something a bit too much, think you just have to try different bit and nose band combinations AS well as trying new methods of schooling it out if them, somes it's just a case of seeing what works best, it's not always a battle of strength but a battle of minds.
 
What's wrong with a Pelham or a kimblewick?

Those flimsy bubble bits/Dutch gags or whatever are really painful for a horse especially if used on bottom ring. Not only does it nutcrack the jaw in two, it folds into the tongue... If I were a horse, I'd open my mouth and run for the hills/wipe someone off my back too.
 
I have to try
Pelham, NS universal, may take off the grackle and try a kineton, if all else fails I will just never jump, hack or compete :p
 
ImmyS, I guess you ride to a pretty high level - perhaps eventing? And after the dressage phase are popping a snaffle back In the horses mouth for the cross country phase....
 
I am curious about the kineton, I have never even seen one but it seems like it would work well. I would probably try a kimblewick, not a fan of gags as its just the same action but harder, I think you need something that acts in a different way.

P.s. also agree with AA, some horses are just big and strong and want to rebel sometimes!
 
Absolutely love NS bits


Our hunter is in a normal nose band and basic ns snaffe every day he is in a ns waterford to hunt as he just thinks its too much fun to go go go lol nothing about schooling abut him letting his hair down and having fun... he also has a grackle to hunt much easier to stop now :)
 
I have a photo of my big lad cantering down our point to point course, but I got told off for posting it about a year ago. It really does show just how big and powerful he was.
 
amymay said:
ImmyS, I guess you ride to a pretty high level - perhaps eventing? And after the dressage phase are popping a snaffle back In the horses mouth for the cross country phase....
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No because I don't put a chunk of metal in my horses mouth to control her...
 
ImmyS said:
Why does matter? Everyone here is clearly pro bitting so what i use isn't particularly relevant..
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Actually - I have been known to ride mine in a Micklem without a bit, so wouldn't say I am anti riding bitless. What I do have a slight issue about is people acting as though bits are evil, and only those who go bitless will go to heaven, when the majority of bitless bridles are capable of inflicting just as much damage as a bit, just to different bits of the horses head. I believe that Amymay was thinking along the same lines.
 
Auslander said:
Actually - I have been known to ride mine in a Micklem without a bit, so wouldn't say I am anti riding bitless. What I do have a slight issue about is people acting as though bits are evil, and only those who go bitless will go to heaven, when the majority of bitless bridles are capable of inflicting just as much damage as a bit, just to different bits of the horses head. I believe that Amymay was thinking along the same lines.
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I don't think bits are evil, I never said that, I just don't think they are necessary... I'm fully aware of issues bitless can have and would not ride bitless without understanding these and so I ride accordingly..
 
ImmyS said:
No because I don't put a chunk of metal in my horses mouth to control her...
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ImmyS said:
I don't think bits are evil, I never said that, I just don't think they are necessary... I'm fully aware of issues bitless can have and would not ride bitless without understanding these and so I ride accordingly..
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Ok - but that first comment was a bit silly and inflammatory.

It depends what sort of riding you want to do really. I wouldn't embrace bitlessness as I ride dressage, and my horse goes better in a bit. I'm sure that if I was a better rider, I could get him going as well without a bit, but I'm not, so I can't. We still manage to do a fair job at a decent level. He is soft, light and delightful - and I never feel that I am 'controlling' him. We are a partnership, and muddle along together quite nicely.
 
Auslander said:
Ok - but that first comment was a bit silly and inflammatory.

It depends what sort of riding you want to do really. I wouldn't embrace bitlessness as I ride dressage, and my horse goes better in a bit. I'm sure that if I was a better rider, I could get him going as well without a bit, but I'm not, so I can't. We still manage to do a fair job at a decent level. He is soft, light and delightful - and I never feel that I am 'controlling' him. We are a partnership, and muddle along together quite nicely.
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.. And that's your opinion :) which I respect..
 
amymay said:
Not necessarily. Some horses are just 'big and strong'. I had one of those. Manners to burn, and well schooled - but too big and strong for me...
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Got one of those too. Also Irish! Theres a theme running in this thread!:D

amymay said:
Yes, I'd never have been able to hunt him - which
is a shame as he'd have been awesome!
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Would love to hunt my mare too, but wouldn't dare.

amymay said:
Exactly what I did:D
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And did he come back AM, or did you just want rid of him?

ImmyS said:
But this isn't a thread about a one off time the horse was strong or tanked, its a general comment that the horse is strong jumping, which to me screams go back to basics as others have suggested doing on here!
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Someone better tell the Olympic team. Mary King, fancy putting a strong bit in your horse's mouth because it wants to booger off round the XC course and not listen to you. Never mind that he did a lovely, light advanced dressage test the day before, he needs to go back to basics!!!

Sorry, slightly sarcastic, but some horses love their jobs and do get strong and keen because of that..
 
I'm not 'pro' bitting. I'm 'pro' using what works best for horse and rider.

But I'm genuinely interested in what you use ImmyS, to better understand your position, and comments about lack of schooling.
 
I was just going to ask the same thing as amymay. And i think it's a cop out to just say people are either pro bit or anti bit.

I happily ride bitless at home, but there is NO WAY i could take my lad out competing cross country bitless and it's not a schooling issue. He just loves jumping, and is too brave and keen, so I have no issue with putting a bit in there so I can get the correct gears and keep the balance and speed correct over tricky fences in the heat of the run.

I always wonder how these bitting debates end up on the same argument where people seem to insist that keen, strong, fit horses doing cross country are just badly schooled and badly ridden if they need a bit?

I always wonder where are these perfect riders who have calm, bitless horses happily competing, because in 30 years I've never seen one at a show? and I don't mean major events, even local hunter trials.
 
amymay said:
I'm not 'pro' bitting. I'm 'pro' using what works best for horse and rider.

But I'm genuinely interested in what you use ImmyS, to better understand your position, and comments about lack of schooling.
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Is a gap in schooling not a sensible suggestion? I know if I had horse that was strong and tanked as the OP put it when jumping I know I wouldn't think, I must change the bit, tack etc.. I would think, clearly this horse is not listening or respecting my aids, I should go back to basics, pole work, grid work etc.. Until it is established that tanking is it not appropriate and build from there.. People keep mentioning horses are strong out hunting, or talking about Olympic riders but that is not relevant to the OPs problem.

I ride my horse in a rope halter currently, for hacking as I only use my seat aids, leg aids when hacking.. Whilst I school in my barefoot bridle and will continue to jump in it etc.. once my horse is fully recovered from injury.
 
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