Video Help :(

He is jumping great and he looks strong and confident.

It looks like he is getting excited and is doing his own thing. He's not messing around, but he's throwing in changes willy nilly. My friend's horse does that when he gets keen. Mine does it in medium canter when he loses balance.

Personally I'd be working on landing from the jump and cantering away. Any change that's thrown in merits a bringing back to trot, rebalancing and asking for canter again. He needs to know that the changes are only there for certain circumstances, such as when you ask.

I would assume it's a training issue rather than a physical problem personally. If it were happening out hacking or schooling on the flat I'd be more concerned, or if his jumping performance were otherwise affected. But as it is, just after landing from a jump, I think it's excitement and cockiness and he's just doing it for funsies ?
 
Feel free to ignore me - you know my history on the jumping front, and that I also struggle with nerves etc. What that does mean is I also over analyse everything.
So first thoughts from the video - the canter does look a little rushed and flat (I spent ages trying to get that big canter with bounce so it the first thing I look for when watching others). Not a dig in anyway, and as you have said you are both a little out of practice over SJ.
Boggle is a cheeky, confident chappie - he knows what he's doing and is within his comfort zone, so although in the past he may not have felt tense/hot he's probably also being a bit blasé about it all.
His flatwork looks amazing, and I have always been envious of how easy you guys find counter canter. ie, he has good balance and is happy to go on any leg.
He's been doing more flat work and so may well be more sensitive to weight aids.
Basically if he's not doing it on the flat, I wouldn't be worried. Maybe put the money into sj lessons for a bit and see how you go.
Also, if you noticed him during this across county, would it worry you? Or would you put it down to Bog sorting himself out as he thought best?
 
So I watched your videos before reading the words and thought woohoo - that pony needs bigger fences to make him concentrate (I also thought 20 years ago I'd have loved to ride him, I'm too old now and you are brave to hunt :D)

But without reading the words it did just look like he was super sensitive and finding it all a bit too easy and good fun, plus really, really responsive to your weight. I was expecting the words to be something around balancing him because that's how he looks rather than any sort of medical issue. I'll be interested to know how you get on with the vet and hopefully there isn't anything worrying.
 
Roxylola said:
I think it is the quality of the canter that's the issue not the jumping as such, nicer bouncier canter and it won't happen. Unfortunately he knows his job a bit well and he's not concentrating for you!
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mavandkaz said:
Feel free to ignore me - you know my history on the jumping front, and that I also struggle with nerves etc. What that does mean is I also over analyse everything.
So first thoughts from the video - the canter does look a little rushed and flat (I spent ages trying to get that big canter with bounce so it the first thing I look for when watching others). Not a dig in anyway, and as you have said you are both a little out of practice over SJ.
Boggle is a cheeky, confident chappie - he knows what he's doing and is within his comfort zone, so although in the past he may not have felt tense/hot he's probably also being a bit blasé about it all.
His flatwork looks amazing, and I have always been envious of how easy you guys find counter canter. ie, he has good balance and is happy to go on any leg.
He's been doing more flat work and so may well be more sensitive to weight aids.
Basically if he's not doing it on the flat, I wouldn't be worried. Maybe put the money into sj lessons for a bit and see how you go.
Also, if you noticed him during this across county, would it worry you? Or would you put it down to Bog sorting himself out as he thought best?
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Yup don’t know how much you saw of Sunday in the end but I thought he looked bored and totally uninspired. Unsurprisingly given the exercise but he wasn’t hot on Sunday. But did the same thing.. although I do think Bog and sharer are still figuring each other out. Straight from the stable this am he was more wahayyyyyy.. thats why I sort of thought physical because even when “relaxed” he was still doing it.

I have a feeling he will do well for a play date with A ;)
 
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FourLeafClover said:
Does he do it when free schooled/lunged over fences? Would at least eliminate the possibility of it being rider influence for you ?
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I’m not a fan of lunging so very rarely do it other than a vet work up or a spin to let off some steam.. consequently it’s very exciting for him! Not sure I’d fancy my chances adding a jump in there!
 
be positive said:
Watching the 100 shows how athletic he is, he is not great technically and has always moved a bit in two halves, in all paces, but he is talented, cocky, loves to work and allowed to do things a bit his own way will try his hardest, because he moves the way he does it is very easy to pop in and out of a true canter, if you watch a lot of top jumpers they do much the same but in a more collected canter, I think it is a sign of a busy brain that just pops in a stride or so to reorganise while trying to get where they are going in the quickest or most efficient way possible.
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I like that description of him. I'm not a great jumper or see-er of strides, but it just looks to me as though he is rushing after the jumps. Have you tried halting in a straight line after a jump, in 3 strides. Might make it less exciting
Also I guess of you hunt then would be happy with his stride adaptability ☺
 
tda said:
I like that description of him. I'm not a great jumper or see-er of strides, but it just looks to me as though he is rushing after the jumps. Have you tried halting in a straight line after a jump, in 3 strides. Might make it less exciting
Also I guess of you hunt then would be happy with his stride adaptability ☺
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Nope not tried that!
He has, twice in three years got us in trouble. A tiny brush thing out hunting he barely registered and supermanned, landing on his noses. Sheer idiocy trying to ensure his place up front.
Another time he took off with one leg almost and chipped in with another and got caught in a pole. We both fell- it was horrible. However he’s pretty damn clever and has certainly done far more saving than anything else!
 
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I haven't watched the videos but just wanted to add that Buzz disunites when jumping too, but never doing flat work! Also only when at competitions so I think for him it's a mix of a lot of things, possibly being out, probably picking up nerves from me and also being unbalanced by me (linking back to the nerves thing!) as I have taught him a lot of lateral work so he's likely responding to subtle weight changes i'm not even aware i'm doing.

He's better at lower heights (although the 65cm I did at the weekend he disunited 3 times! but he hasn't been out competing since August so i'll let him off...the course also had some dodgy curves and lines which didn't help) and I sometimes find it difficult to bring him back to trot, he's excited and wants to go! When we jump bigger he does it more. At home or if I hire an arena he will change canter leads over jumps but doesn't disunite - so it's something about competing! TBH when I've asked instructors about it, more than one have said to either just bring him back to trot or if he's being difficult just carry on, he can jump out of a disunited canter when the jumps are small so I tend to keep him in that rhythm, even if it is a dodgy uncomfortable one!

After that rambling I would probably say that he could be responding to weight changes or may just need some more 'jump' to make him concentrate but I wouldn't be rushing to the vets :)
 
Turbo pony ?

Different issues but mine tends to favour one leg over the other and will switch legs for take off or tend to land on one leg rather than the other. Only sj though and no issues in flatwork but he is stronger on one rein than the other. Doesn’t do it in when jumping on a circle or with exercises where I switch reins and bends. So I’ve always put it down to a preference and being slightly one sided.
 
Thanks so much everyone for your replies. I cancelled the vet for now and he’s booked in for an sj lesson with an instructor who knows him well and his original rider who bought him on. Between the two of them I should be able to get a clearer picture.
 
Well we definitely have a problem :( I’m not sure what to do really. We narrowed it down to him disuniting on left rein. Consistently when on a straight line in particular.

I wonder if that reflects a problem with the right hind because by disuniting over the fence it means he’s actually putting his weight onto the left hind leg when landing instead of right.

A, whose not ridden him for nearly a year thought he felt great in terms of strength and flatwork.

He actually jumped well in the sense of not having a single pole over 1m/1.05 fences and was confident and felt good going into them. But he’s such a dude I feel like he would jump regardless.

going to speak with my vet on Monday but wondering about a Bute trial for a couple of weeks as a port of call. Trainer suggested that, and feels sensible.

Just ideo of many but despite adding guide poles, poles after etc not once could we get him to land correct over the oxer etc.

Feeling very glum and sad. Third video of him not doing it on right rein. Fourth video he goes into first fence disunited (having gone wrong after the oxer) but does manage to land correct on second fence which was pretty much the only time he did

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Red-1 said:
Yes, that looks like a problem, but I have to say that until he landed, he looked FAB!
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Thats what’s so confusing... there’s literally no other signs... it’s purely this jumping issue.
Whatever it is must have been subtly rumbling because he definitely did it in November when I trawl back through videos of a camp I went to.

My only positive thought is a weakness that’s become a habit but that’s clutching at straws!
 
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Ambers Echo said:
I'm sorry you did not get more optimistic feedback. But well done for following your gut and checking things out. Many wouldn't. Hope it is nothing much and easily resolved. xx
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Me too :( thanks. I could go down the physio route first but sort of feel it’s pointless as for not much more I can just have him worked up.

would be interested if anyone reading this thinks left or right hind issue with this symptom. I assumed left but the fact he has to land a decent oxer with weight onto his left in order to disunite makes me wonder.
 
I am really sorry to read this?

You could spend a fortune on looking for where it is, Michen. Is there any chance you can just bite the bullet and pay for a scintigraph? if you can (£1200?) then that's what I'd do.

Use the rent rebate maybe ? ?

Until I discovered by chance that my TB had a huge intolerance to soya, I was on the brink of having one done on him. These non-specific issues in horses that are otherwise performing brilliantly (and doesn't he jump!) are a nightmare.

.
 
Disuniting can be caused by a number of different things, but most common in my experience (don't claim to be an expert though!) is hocks or sacroiliac. My guess would be that the reason he is only doing it when landing from a jump is because it causes more strain on his hocks or back than anything else. The fact he doesn't do it in normal canter suggests that whatever it is could be fairly mild, or that you have caught it before it progresses.

I don't know how beneficial a bute trial will be. You know there is an issue, the question now is identifying exactly where and what is causing it. I would get a good lameness vet out (or take Boggle to them) and get some help pinpointing exactly what is causing the issue.
 
That is much clearer than the previous videos as he is remaining disunited rather than skipping in and out as he was then which made it look much more of a habit than anything more sinister. It is not going to be easy to find the cause because it is so subtle but see what the vets suggest and take it from there.
 
Try putting four small cross poles dividing a large circle into quarters .
work in and get him settled ( I might hack before hand ) get him trotting into the cross poles and landing in canter keep looking where you are going to direct him you can miss out the cross poles across the school to settle get back to trot .
the you need to work at him being short and slow and mannerly .
you probably won’t get to cantering round all four the first session .
If he can’t do this while settled then I would be worried something is not quite right .
however in the videos he looks fresh and full of it and that might be all it is .
 
One morr
ycbm said:
I am really sorry to read this?

You could spend a fortune on looking for where it is, Michen. Is there any chance you can just bite the bullet and pay for a scintigraph? if you can (£1200?) then that's what I'd do.

Use the rent rebate maybe ? ?

Until I discovered by chance that my TB had a huge intolerance to soya, I was on the brink of having one done on him. These non-specific issues in horses that are otherwise performing brilliantly (and doesn't he jump!) are a nightmare.

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He is insured bar his front feet so shouldn’t be an issue going down vet route unless they are the problem of course.
 
Bum ?.

I’d suggest an holistic vet too, I use Angela Holland who is amazing. Hopefully you’ve caught whatever this is early and it’s not too problematic x
 
Hmmm. I don’t know what to do. Both instructors are saying bute first incase it’s a weakness that’s become a habit, they’ve reminded me he’s barely really jumped for a year consistently...

I’m going to speak to my vet on Monday am and see what he says- he’s super practical about these things.

appreciate the Osteo etc suggestions but I really would rather spend the money on my vet who knows the horse.
 
Bute trial and then vet makes sense ?.

Sometimes when it’s not an obvious thing wrong, the holistic vets can be useful. Angela gave Skylla a rehab program to follow which was more helpful than the steroid injections the vet suggested, but it’s always worth seeing what your normal vet can suggest first.
 
Can anyone actually SEE a lameness here from this? End of session so he’s tired but we Thought we’d see what happened on a circle. Obviously no disuniting. Can you see a soundness issue?

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An odd stride, maybe, where he looks slightly not right. First time round I noticed it by the blue poster on the wall. Doesn't look lame just not quite right iyswim
 
It’s more apparent in the latest set of jumping videos but is still subtle and could be attributable to training rather than lameness.

What I’m not saying is there isn’t an issue. There may well be. Getting the vet isn’t wrong either.

This type of thing in my mind comes down to ‘what does sound mean’ and how many sound horses are there out there? Most horses aren’t sound when using a definition of 100% regular, weight bearing and straight. The more observant and intuitive among us pick up on these subtleties.

What I would say is he looks, fit, strong and keen to work so I’d be very surprised if it was anything other than a minor vet management issue - the sort of thing most horses have (if you look hard enough).

And no he doesn’t look lame in the last video.
 
Max was not lame. 2 vets and a lameness locator pronounced him sound. But he did not feel right ridden and we went straight for scintigraphy in the end as vet just had no idea where to even start imaging or blocking. He had an SI problem but in retrospect he'd been a bit evasive jumping on occasions for ages but it was assumed to be behavioural/rider related. You are quicker off the mark than I was.

A bute trial was useful for Ginny but only to rule IN pain not rule it out. Some pain does not respond to bute. Some pain is intermittent etc. So many people were telling me her problems were behavioural that it was useful to put paid to that idea with a bute trial. She was a lot better on bute. But if she'd been no different on bute I'd have been no further ahead really because I knew there was an issue regardless of what the trial showed me. And we ended up with scintigraphy for her too. In her case it was less useful because she has inflammation in so many places that finding the primary reason was a challenge we never solved.

Scintigraphyhas its limitations but I think is very useful. Even if I was using an osteopath/holistic vet I'd want them to know where it hurts first which is more or less what it tells you.
 
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