He's Giving Up and I'm so Angry With Him

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Second the clivers and all those other good herbs with medicinal properties. For some reason I have very few growing here unlike last year. So I'm up and down roads with a bag picking away like a weirdo.

I am so sorry for what you're going through. Can understand your frustration. Hoping things turn a corner for you guys.

Terri

 

[myhorsefred]

Very sorry to hear your horse is poorly.

Its not liver damage is it? I expect your vet has run bloods and checked liver markers?

My horse was very poorly last year (similar sypmtoms to yours, picking at haylage, not interested in hard feed etc and losing weight).

My boy slowly picked up on a cocktail of medication, lots of milk thistle, and other things which I'll list if you think it is a liver problem.

x

Also, just remembered, this liquid from Dodson and Horrell really helped my boy. it is B vits and they recommend it to help with poor appetites. http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/our-feeds/herbs-supplements/perform/vitalise.html

 

[PercyMum]

I think that if he is wolfing down cleavers (goosegrass) it could be very significant. It does have a lot of medicinal properties, but one of its main ones is as an anti-inflammatory. I am not a tree-hugger but when my hubby had tendonitis and no prescription was working (and believe me he was desperate), I dug out an old herb book and made him an infusion of cleavers, I promise you I am not lying when in half an hour he had relief from the pain he had had for weeks. He actually described it as a miracle and we kept him on it until the tendonitis cleared up. It is also believed to purify the lymphatic system among other things. It seems to me that your boy is self-medicating and I would definitely let him have access to it. I do hope he gets better and don't be too hard on yourself.

Thats is really interesting - I did not know that. He has eaten all the Cleavers we have but as Yasandcrystal suggested, I am going to go out with a bucket and pick loads along with some Hawthorn tips and see if that helps him. Even if he only eats that, its something.

 

[BlairandAzria]

Gosh I really feel for you. Firstly massive hugs for you X

Secondly i can't really help as have no experience of this type of illness, but I think queenbee (when her horse was very poorly) managed to get sample feeds from most of the major feed companies by ringing up their helplines - trying lots of differenvt feeds is not normally recommended, but in this case maybe seeing if he can be tempted by anything different?

Have you tried soaking his feed in apple juice? Or adding a couple of drops of peppermint oil?

Fingers and everything crossed for your boy, hope he picks up for you xxxxx

 

[PercyMum]

It is just the nice fresh young growth tips you want to chop off - up to 2 inches - the stalk is soft and the growth fresh. As for dandelions there are hundreds this year - I would locate them and stick the secateurs into the ground to dig up the root and offer the plant root and all. I would literally gather a bucketful of these and the clivers and nettles and scatter them in front of my mare so she could select them. Dried rosehips are also a lovely vitamin packed treat to offer. You can get those on ebay via one of the herbal sellers. Good luck OP I hope he picks up. I am an aromatherapist and I also offered oils to my horses to sniff - all the citurs oils are uplifting and lavender good for relaxtation. You just hold the bottle in a fist and offer to your horses nose to inhale.

Thank you very much for the advice. When I get out of work I will give it a bash and report back.

Very sorry to hear your horse is poorly.

Its not liver damage is it? I expect your vet has run bloods and checked liver markers?

My horse was very poorly last year (similar sypmtoms to yours, picking at haylage, not interested in hard feed etc and losing weight).

My boy slowly picked up on a cocktail of medication, lots of milk thistle, and other things which I'll list if you think it is a liver problem.

x

Please do list away - they ran extensive bloods and the only unusual thing was lover Albumen which apparently means his protein uptake is poor hence the weight loss. No idea what is causing this though. If I treat for Liver function surely it cannot hurt?

 

[PercyMum]

Contact Queenbee.

Done - waiting to hear back. Hope she can help

 

[ulla]

I am so sorry to read what you are going through, I am not sure if its grass sickness which is what I lost my horse to 2 years ago.does your horse look anorexic. if its grass sickness it is probably chronic grass sickness which is the only form they can survive from with lots of nursing. try feeding him anything that is his favourite food, like apples or carrots even mars bars anything just to get him to eat. I am attaching a link for you with the symptoms of grass sickness and their website which is full of information www.grasssickness.org.uk also if your vet is not sure the best people for advice are the dick vet hospital in Scotland who deal with grass sickness all the time, they really are worth a call and very helpful.
http://www.grasssickness.org.uk/egsf-page.aspx?pageID=51
Take a look at the above website and on their homepage is a picture of a chronic gs horse. I have a grass sickness group on facebook, my name is Ulla Balletta if you need any advice. I hope he will be ok, I know how it feels.x

 

[Nicnac]

Nothing to suggest but sorry to hear he's poorly.

Don't beat yourself up - I screamed at my horse last year when she lay dying with a broken back. Just wanted her back legs to work

Sending lots of vibes that he picks up

 

[Amazona]

Sorry to hear what you are going through
I have the very same situation with a horse I had on loan a few years ago ... just stopped eating one day ..I would take him out in hand to grass and would sniff around ..pick a blade or 2 ...
Went off to Hospital for scopes and test ..was put on a drip ... He dropped condition rapidly so we made a soup out of Allen and Page calm and condition with probiotics added and with a big syringe squirted 2 cup full every hour round the clock ..this made sure he was hydrated and at least something was going through him ...he did start to eat after a week of this .... hope this helps

 

[HeresHoping]

I am so sorry for you. All the others have great advice. So I just wanted to send as many vibes as I have. And if you are anywhere near P'b*gger, I have more cleavers than a cleaver-producing factory, so please come and help yourself.

Willow leaves are supposed to do similar.

 

[Wagtail]

If he picks at grass, I would try some readigrass. Pour hot water over it and revive it. The smell is amazing. You poor thing.

 

[Gracie21]

Thinking of you OP, lots of good suggestions here xx

 

[doriangrey]

I wonder if it might be worth seeing if there are any vets in your area that take a more holistic approach and might be more into homeopathy too. I've never had to do it myself, but I'd be very open to it.

 

[Rebels]

I had something similar with my now 5 year old. 2 hourly feeds hand fed (shoved into his mouth) of anything i could kept him alive. Grated carrot etc anything suggested. Again he inhaled clivers . I also syringed in Propelplus as a booster which helped though i understand your lad getting unhappy. Mine realised Propel was sweet and was too weak to fight really. Mine was down for 3 weeks, had to be picked up to eat and toilet (he was 15hands). I kept him out after the vet pointed out the reality of him collapsing in the stable and having to have the body removed. Sorry to say that but it was something i hadn't considered.
If he is low on protein you could try a veteran food but with a liver query best to stay hi fibre. Mine had a different recipe per meal and had an electolyte paste. You can buy dried glucose powder Scats if he needs a boost to.
And as for being angry with him? Don't be upset with yourself. I was furious with mine when i moved yet another unfinished bowl and even more when he tried messing around and used all his energy then was semi conscious for a day until he picked up. I can't tell you how ill mine was, vet calls him her miracle as he had steroids, antibiotics and bute. That's all. They didn't know what caused it bar it affected his liver.
The only other suggestion i have is are you in a Lymes disease area? Could be worth a culture as symptoms do fit.

 

[fabscd]

I know you didn't want to syringe him, but if it's the difference between life and death...can you get a large syringe and get some oil and/or molasses or something down him? My youngster had chronic Grass Sickness when she was 2, and went from looking normal to like a hat rack in 2 weeks. She was so weak she could barely stand. She wouldn't (couldn't) eat food but i syringed as much oil down her, as well as molasses and a product called Immunall. I just needed to keep as many calories going through her as possible, in as easily digestible format as possible while she worked to fight what was wrong with her. The Immunall was recommended to me by a friend and i think really helped to give her a boost when she needed it. More complicated as your vets don't know what is wrong, why do they not think it is GS? Fingers crossed for your boy xx

 

[FionaM12]

Poor you and poor horse.

Queenbee went through all this with her beloved Ebony, I'm sure she'd be glad to share her knowledge and experience.

 

[forever broke]

Just heard from the vets and they do not think its Grass Sickness at all. So good in one way but still at a loss as to whats actually wrong with him.

So sorry to hear you're going through this. Just wanted to say that his symptoms sound very much like my boy who had chronic GS a few years ago. The first vet was convinced it wasn't and had me injecting him with antibiotics for a week. It was only when I called out for an emergency vet when he looked much worse one day, and got a different vet, that he was diagnosed and rushed straight into their clinic. He spent three weeks there being tubed every day, on a drip as he wouldn't drink, before he started picking at food and they let him home for me to nurse. I know exactly where your coming from with the frustration, when they look like skeletons and won't even eat a mouthful it's heartbreaking. We got there in the end though, and he's still with us, so it can be done. Ulla's group on facebook is fantastic for info and support if they do decide it's GS.

 

[Queenbee]

Hi PercyMum, I'm really sorry to read that you are going through this, I know exactly what you are going through

I've copied and pasted the following from my post on another thread and added a few more bits:


, get some protexin and feed this at top rate as your probiotic its by far the best.

Get a good blood tonic, I reccomend haemavite b plus , its used in the racing industry and for sick horses, it aids oxygenation of the cells, boosts the immune system, boosts appetite, enhances gut function and counters anaemia. All of the above are things that your horse needs support with. It gave my girl a couple of precious weeks for us to try and figure out what was going on.

Get some peppermint, it has a calming and soothing effect on the digestive tract.

Invest in a good all round supplement.

Mix the supplement, peppermint, tonic (which is syrup based) and protexin together, add water to make into a paste and syringe into the horse.

Feed all feed from an elevated level. Eating from the ground when ill can be particularly difficult for horses and can have a negative effect on their appetite. Buy some mollichaff condition, its not ideal but mollichaff was all my mare would eat towards the end.

Invest in some speedie beet (not sugar beet) as an additional source of fibre and I'd also look at feeds that you don't have to feed so much of for example baileys outshine that way you only have to feed a cup vs a scoop... Far easier for a fussy horse. And you can hand feed these as treats. If needs bee, soak the balancer to a slop, get a big syringe and syringe down the throat. Also, mollichaff, I'm not a great fan because it contains molasses, however mollichaff condition has fantastic reviews, it contains less sugar and in the end all my mare would eat was mollichaff, and she would eat it!

With any 'hard feed' ensure its a slop, this is much easier to digest, it takes far less calories.


Do not worm again while your horse is like this, it will aggravate the gut wall. Stick to blood tests for tape worm and worm counts.

If you can get your horse in, get some fast fibre or readigrass and feed as a forage replacer, or, do what i did and fill haynets with hand picked grass, use large holed haynets so its easier.



If you have any country lanes around walk him in hand down there, pay attention to what your horse eats from the hedgerows, this can tell you a lot. My mare had a real thing for cow parsley which (if I remember correctly) is a digestive/soothing aid, and willow shoots which are a natural painkiller. If you have some willow trees around, go cut off all the new shoots for him.

Be aware that your horse will get cold with the reduction in body fat, when my girl was ill, she actually wore a medium weight turnout and a light weight stable rug when in. She was stabled pretty much 24/7 with small in hand walks and a couple of hours in a small paddock


Basically what your horse is experiencing is protien malabsorption, steroids from what I have read and discussed with my vets, buy time, but often that is all they do. Sometimes, they can work.


I will find a few links for you to read and get your head around, it really helped me. Be aware that laminits is a significant risk with malnourished horses because of the change in blood, this will be magnified by the use of steroids, your horse may also be exhibiting a heart murmur, again this is common when they lose significant amounts of weight and is generally not long term - it goes when they get better.

I can't stress the importance of rugging your horse to compensate for the loss of fat, feeding a good blood tonic, probiotic and high calorie feeds, specifically high protein... Perhaps something like linseed would be good or even soya meal even if you have to syringe into your horse. Furthermore, please try feeding from a door manger, its much easier, and another stress for mollichaff... It will at least be something.


Lastly, the really awful bit, much as you will absolutely hate this... Make a plan, if you PTS, how will you do this, who will be there with you, what method will you go for. At what point will you say enough is enough? Make this plan so you don't have to think about it again and can focus on your horse.

There is not really much more I can say Hun, other than I am truly sorry you're going through this. It's a year on Sunday since I lost ebony, her struggle still haunts me, one day she was just too tired, and I could hear her legs banging on the stable door as she kept buckling . She lost that sparkle to her eye during that day and I decided then and there to say goodbye. It's the most awful thing in the world, I hope your horse turns a corner, but I really wanted to stress to you i am no ver but malabsorption is rarely fixed, and steroids will most likely buy a small amount of time xxxx

I will find some links for you and post on here. There may be some ideas or suggested treatments in them xxx

 

[Rose Folly]

Jemima*askin has good ideas. We've tried two at least in a purpura haemorrogica situation and they worked.

1. the noise of another horse eating will often stimulate the patient to eat
2. Walking in had along verges. Horses are very good doctors themselves (ours treat themselves with willow). Your boy may discover something he really relishes, and verges do have a wide range of plants available which won't necessarily be on your pasture, like sow thistle, some of the mints etc.
3. Have you tried molasses (the human, not the horse kind) in his feed, or Golden Syrup? We had a horse who had a very savoury palate, and he would eat things spread with Marmite, and lick Marmite off your palm.

I do hope you get some answers soon. I've always heard that Liphook is amazing, and I'm sure they will keep trying.

 

[BWa]

You can buy Clevers powder(?) from Pro Earth on EBay. Good luck OP.

 

[Queenbee]

Just to say, malabsorption can be triggered by a number of things, resulting in damaging/inflaming the gut and therefore causing the malabsorption. Triggers can be a change in environment/regime/grazing, virus or infection, worming or parasitic infection and sadly cancer too. The problem is, that the inflammation once there (and bringing with it the malabsorption) is very difficult to reverse, but depending on the cause, severity and strength of the horse is not always impossible.

 

[Merrymoles]

Just to offer moral support and a shoulder. If only I were nearer, I could offer bucket-loads of cleavers and willow. I agree with those who say let him pick at whatever he fancies - any food going through him is better than nothing.
I hope he picks up very soon and turns the corner.
Finally - don't be cross with yourself. Anger is another way we show grief and I know you are probably beating yourself up about it but it is past - give him a big cuddle and he'll forgive you!

 

[scarymare]

You poor thing.

Liphook get a great rep but they've spent all my sister's insurance money and horse now still having to PTS (not metabolic).

I would get a second opinion from another vet. It is constructive and will make you feel better, the outcome may or may not be the same but it has to be worth a shot. I haven't been in SE England since year 2001 but I'd get Simon Knapp from Scott-Dunn if I were you.

I really, really hope this all works out fine, and I can honestly say that I do know exactly what you are going through. Stay strong and the very best of luck to you both x x x x

 

[Ahrena]

I don't have anything to add but just wanted to offer sympathy really.

It's heart wrenching reading this but sounds like some really good ideas.

 

[Spring Feather]

Heartbreaking Lots of good suggestions here. I've never dealt with something like this but one of my clients did a few years ago and she said she cut loads of willow branches and put them in the field with her horse. She said the horse started wolfing them down and so she fed them for a week (I believe) and slowly but surely the horse started eating again. It was a slow process to get it back up and running properly but she swears by the willow branches being the biggest contributor to getting horse back on the mend. I don't know as I wasn't there but it's got to be worth a try at this stage.

 

[Aarrghimpossiblepony]

Heartbreaking Lots of good suggestions here. I've never dealt with something like this but one of my clients did a few years ago and she said she cut loads of willow branches and put them in the field with her horse. She said the horse started wolfing them down and so she fed them for a week (I believe) and slowly but surely the horse started eating again. It was a slow process to get it back up and running properly but she swears by the willow branches being the biggest contributor to getting horse back on the mend. I don't know as I wasn't there but it's got to be worth a try at this stage.

I'd second this, and any other trees with fresh green leaves they take a fancy too, I think it's beech and poplar that are nice for them.

After the wind/rain of the last few days, there's loads of oak leaves broken off lying around and the forest ponies are hoovering them up.
And if you look, all the edible trees have a distinct browse line. Willows never get to weep.

 

[touchstone]

So sorry to hear you and your poor horse are going through this.

Anger is undestandable in your situation, I often find if I can be proactive I feel better and less helpless, so trying different things to tempt him would become a bit of a mission.

Years ago we had a filly with grass sickness, it was touch and go, but she survived by eating sugar cubes and ready brek; the ready brek was recommended by the vet. World Horse Welfare have a useful leaflet on grass sickness you can downoad, including things to tempt them to eat. I realise the vet doesn't think it is that, but the tips are still useful.

I'd try fenugreek, as that is supposed to encourage appetite, and also add the dreaded molasses. If he's eating a bit of grass then maybe soaked grass nuts would be worth a try. When a horse isn't eating I think the rule book has to go out of the window, and previously 'banned' foods tried.

I hope you can both get through this dreadful episode, best wishes. x

 

[Queenbee]

So sorry to hear you and your poor horse are going through this.

Anger is undestandable in your situation, I often find if I can be proactive I feel better and less helpless, so trying different things to tempt him would become a bit of a mission.

Years ago we had a filly with grass sickness, it was touch and go, but she survived by eating sugar cubes and ready brek; the ready brek was recommended by the vet. World Horse Welfare have a useful leaflet on grass sickness you can downoad, including things to tempt them to eat. I realise the vet doesn't think it is that, but the tips are still useful.

I'd try fenugreek, as that is supposed to encourage appetite, and also add the dreaded molasses. If he's eating a bit of grass then maybe soaked grass nuts would be worth a try. When a horse isn't eating I think the rule book has to go out of the window, and previously 'banned' foods tried.

I hope you can both get through this dreadful episode, best wishes. x

This is very true, whilst ebs was ill, the treatment and management plan for either malabsorption syndrome or grass sickness was pretty much the same.

 

[Goldenstar]

Gorse tips is something esle you can try .

 

[Juni141]

OP I have no experience of this but just wanted to send you my huge sympathies and good vibes. I have everything crossed that he makes a swift recovery.

xxxx