He's unhinged ... But ....

[Antw23uk]

Hi all
Following on from a couple of recent dangerous behaviour posts, I've decided to ask you lovely lot for opinions/ advise and probably just a lend of your ear for me to have a moan .... I'm pretty upset at the moment so kindness is appreciated.

Bit of background. I've owned my 13yr old RID for a year. I dont know anything about his history but he came over from Ireland approx 18 months ago. He was shut down when I got him and always on the nervous side, so without jumping to too much conclusion, I'm guessing he's not had the best life or 1-2-1 care. He is well mannered and safe and sound to be around (possibly an ex hirling) he's just a sensitive soul and worries about getting something wrong. I tutted at him once, in the early days, and within a second I found him cowing in the corner with fear ... he's that kind of sensitive)

I believe I give him a lovely life, and in return he safely looks after me out hacking etc. As much as i want him to love me and be cuddly, I've resigned myself to the fact he's just not that kinda boy and he shows his love and loyalty through being a saint to ride etc.
He lives out 24/7 at my quiet home yard surrounded by horses and ponies with good grazing and shelter. He was wonky as anything when i got him, he'll never be totally right but his shape and health improvement is so much better than it was and I've spared no expense in getting him right. He is mostly just a happy hacker with the odd fun/ hunt ride and pole clinic thrown in and in winter, currently, he really doesn't get much in the way of riding due to no facilities at home and a long working week for me.

So recently he has gone from a sensitive soul to a paranoid scared horse who i can barely get near! At the moment i am literally having to quietly herd him onto the open yard so i can catch him and i would currently not put it past him to try and jump the gate to get away from me if i moved too quickly or got frustrated with him (He knows I am no matter how cheerful and calm I act!) Its like I'm the devil and if he never had to be around a human again, this would be his chosen life path 100% ... when you have a headcollar on him he wouldn't dream of putting a foot wrong but he's jumpy and suspicious of everything!

Other than I've recently brought a 2 yr old OTTB (and honestly i mostly brought him as a companion for him anyway because i feel so guilty having him on 'individual' turnout) I cant see rhyme or reason to this behaviour change! The baby has settled in well, they get on well and there is no real issue with separating them or anything. To be honest even the baby kind of roles his eyes at the big man as if to say 'man up mate, your acting a tw*t'. This is pretty much the only change that's happened which i can put this behaviour down to, that and a lack of work but even then i use the word 'work' loosely, he really does have an easy life so Im not convinced its that.

So if you got this far, thank you. As i say maybe Im just venting but any help/ advise or similar stories is much appreciated. He is due his teeth done next week so i will be chatting to the vet about this as well. He's just breaking my heart at the thought i cant seem to do right for wrong at the moment

 

[AmyMay]

You sound like such a caring owner. What a lucky boy to have you in his life.

I’ll kick it off with ‘what are you feeding him?’

 

[rabatsa]

If he is stressing at life perhaps he has developed ulcers.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I guess that he thrives in a rigid routine and now that you don't have time/light to ride as much, he is struggling to understand the new routine. But yes, always look at the diet for causes of changes in behaviour.

 

[HorsesRule2009]

Has he gotten fitter since you've has him, and are you now exercising him less?
Only ask as I had a irsh hunter who sounds very similar and he got more nervous and on edge the fitter he got. And heaven help us when we couldn't exercise due to snow and ice.
He was the most genuine and honest horse and completely bombproof ridden but so nervous and skittish on the ground.
And he done it through genuine worry/nerves.
I never got to the bottom of it just learnt how/what worked for him.
Bot alot if help to you but just to say your not alone with this

 

[Arzada]

My horse has been more alert and jumpier since firework night. The 2 companions are also affected by this or something else and the little herd hasn't been down waiting for their morning feed on the morning after the fireworks and Wednesday last week.

Hope your lad settles soon.

 

[Antw23uk]

You sound like such a caring owner. What a lucky boy to have you in his life.

I’ll kick it off with ‘what are you feeding him?’

Calm and condition for the last twelve months with a handful of chaff and for the last couple of months the chaff has been Alfa A Oil ... Cant remember when i introduced that though to be honest and its a handful once a day and the bin is nearly empty so maybe two months ago?

If he is stressing at life perhaps he has developed ulcers.

I dont know much about ulcers other than a change in routine/ feed etc can cause them but his routine hasnt really changed but its certainly food for thought, thank you

 

[Antw23uk]

Has he gotten fitter since you've has him, and are you now exercising him less?
Only ask as I had a irsh hunter who sounds very similar and he got more nervous and on edge the fitter he got. And heaven help us when we couldn't exercise due to snow and ice.
He was the most genuine and honest horse and completely bombproof ridden but so nervous and skittish on the ground.
And he done it through genuine worry/nerves.
I never got to the bottom of it just learnt how/what worked for him.
Bot alot if help to you but just to say your not alone with this

Honestly not that fit, im more of a drag them out of the field if the weather is nice type than a consistent 'ride x times a week' type but the riding has certainly been a change from 'some' to none and that thought did cross my mind but he likes a hack but he's not pulling my arms off marching down the road for one if that makes sense. You'd get the impression he can take it or leave ridden work as much as me but its certainly a consideration

 

[ihatework]

I wouldn’t feed the Alfa a.
It’s a great feed and 99% of horses are good on it, but the ones that it doesn’t agree with are basically either utter twits behaviourally or come out in lumps.

Id try him on a valerian supplement if the Alfa removal doesn’t help.

Id also get him scoped for ulcers.

 

[dixie]

Feed was my first thought.
Calm and Condition raised alarm bells - I know a few horses that have definitely not been calm after being on this. And with changing to Alfa A might have made it worse as some horses can't tolerate Alfalfa.

I would treat him as being ulcery and change his chaff to something with low sugar such as Dengie Meadow Grass. Does he need extra for conditioning in the winter? If so, you could try Pink Mash or Equi Jewel.

He sounds like he's fallen on his feet with you and its a shame he has this anxiety.

 

[FestiveG]

Calm and condition for the last twelve months with a handful of chaff and for the last couple of months the chaff has been Alfa A Oil ... Cant remember when i introduced that though to be honest and its a handful once a day and the bin is nearly empty so maybe two months ago?



I dont know much about ulcers other than a change in routine/ feed etc can cause them but his routine hasnt really changed but its certainly food for thought, thank you

I would stop the alfalfa oil as a try. When the current appy gets twitchy, I give her magnesium for a couple of weeks, which seems to "reset" her. Interestingly she eats it readily when she needs it and then leaves her feed when she"decides" she doesn't need it any more.
Just reread, I would stop the alfalfa all together, had a few that just didn't get on with it

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Some horses react badly to Alfalfa and C&C is specifically alfalfa free so you could just ditch that and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Quigleyandme]

You sound such a lovely owner. I have no idea about the change in behaviour except perhaps the reduction of “work”. If he has come from a hireling or trekking yard here he might find this down time worrying. However, about the aloofness. I took on an ISH that was polite but shut down and gave every indication he found me totally repellant. He became the cuddliest horse ever with the help of Trebor Extra Strong mints which he adored and which I unapologetically fed him every time he made his winsome treat face which was utterly irresistible. I do hope you get to the bottom of it. X

 

[windand rain]

Does he get enough magnesium and vit E in his diet if the land is deficient so will he be. Tends to be less available in terms of green grass and sunshine etc of Spring and summer and is an easy thing to supplement obviously if not deficient it wont help but it won't hurt either to give it a go

 

[Birker2020]

Feed was my first thought.
Calm and Condition raised alarm bells - I know a few horses that have definitely not been calm after being on this. .

I have heard this too.

 

[ImmyS]

He sounds EXACTLY like my previous horse Arlo. Just generally a bit afraid of life but a saint to ride and do pretty much anything with. He also had a sketchy unknown past.

I had vet checks, scope, took off feed, tried a calmer etc. The only thing that really made a difference was consistency. Do you catch him every day even if you don’t ride him? Even in Arlos periods of being ‘turned away’ I still caught him daily and kept in routine and this was only thing that really settled him. I completely understand your frustration of just wanting the horse to see you as a non threat, but no matter how calm you are they still seem to wish humans away. He certainly improved with me over time - by our second year together things drastically improved but it takes time.
He may never change completely but I think with routine and you being a constant he will improve.

This is providing any physical issues are ruled out of course

 

[Rowreach]

Definitely ditch the alfalfa, it had a horrible effect on my saintly mare.

 

[AmyMay]

Lots of horses apparently react to alfa…

 

[I'm Dun]

Yup, my bombproof even tiy kids can ride her alone mare, went bonkers on Alfa! It didnt happen straight away, it seemed to take a couple of weeks to kick in. She was the most friendly people orientated pony but she was deranged for a little while. Wouldnt tie up, barged repeatedly out of her stable and just looked terrified.

It took me a few days to work it out, took her off it and about a week later she went back to normal. My current 2 have it with no issues at all, but she wasnt so much as allowed to sniff it again! And when she was sold she went with a warning about it

 

[Antw23uk]

Thank you all, I feel relief already just chatting with you guys. I think of myself as a pretty knowledgeable equestrian but its been nice just to not feel alone and to hear others thoughts. Thank you

I will drop the alfa alfa and look to maybe overhaul to an even more basic feed. The calm and condition definitely doesn't send him on a high (I wish when it comes to ridden work, lol!) I will speak with the vet about ulcers but im not convinced but wont rule it out.
@windand rain thank you, any suggestions on products i can look into please?

Quigleyandme ... I wish he ate mints, lol! He doesnt like them but he does get an apple or a pear with his feed everyday because they do free fruit at work and i always take one for him. Im guilty of being a total feeder and always give treats (unless they become rude then they dont get any)

Other than recently, with this behaviour, he comes in every evening for a 30 minute equilibrium massage pad, groom, feet etc. Once a week I might just throw him a feed and count four legs but usually its in for a fuss/ ride and out again.

 

[windand rain]

Magnesium oxide but its not very palatable so maybe one of the more expensive syringe types I just give a generic vit E think it is gold label but again there are other brands with more punch. You can buy both on Amazon and are not horrendously expensive and you only need small amounts

 

[vhf]

Hi all
Other than I've recently brought a 2 yr old OTTB (and honestly i mostly brought him as a companion for him anyway because i feel so guilty having him on 'individual' turnout) I cant see rhyme or reason to this behaviour change! The baby has settled in well, they get on well and there is no real issue with separating them or anything. To be honest even the baby kind of roles his eyes at the big man as if to say 'man up mate, your acting a tw*t'. This is pretty much the only change that's happened which i can put this behaviour down to, that and a lack of work but even then i use the word 'work' loosely, he really does have an easy life so Im not convinced its that.

If you are 100% that the behaviour change ties in with the arrival of the 2yo, then I would throw all and any idea into the mix that might relate to that. Yes it might be pure coincidence but this isn't your first winter together, if the situation/feed's not hugely different to the last 18 months.
So. Is he worried he's meant to be looking after the baby all the time and forgetting to relax? Has he in his past been nasty to a companion and been leathered for it (stranger things happen). Has he been attacked by a companion at the gateway (bearing in mind, at 13 he has more 'history' than experience with you, which sounds idyllic, to draw on)? You could try anthropomorphising and wonder whether he feels 'pushed out' by the new arrival having just learned you're his special safe person? And so on. And then there's always the 'bubbled over into ulcers adjusting to having a new friend" option...

On the other hand if this is the first time he's ever had alfalfa then that's got to be something to think about - never had one react to it myself, but I have had them react to the oddest of things, and not always instantly, so I'd never discount feed as an option until I'd ruled it out.

 

[Landcruiser]

My first thought was fireworks, which he might have heard/seen even if you were unaware of them OP. Would the timings work for the behaviour change?

 

[MissMay]

If this is a recent thing have you had hunts or hounds within his earshot?
Most ex hunters loose the run of themselves with hunting horns

 

[splashgirl45]

my mare was loopy on calm and condition and was fine on alfa a, they all have different metabolism so react differently..

 

[Red-1]

One of mine would get really sharp if the saddle fit wasn't optimal. Even if he wasn't in much work at all, and the saddle wasn't 'bad' he would be sharp.

I would cut all feed for a short time, to reset, then feed something very plain. A scope may well be worthwhile.

I have had huge success with a number of horses with NAF Thrive. I am talking character changes, within a week. Beware though, it gives them a huge appetite too.

Does anyone else have access to your horses? Has something silly happened? Were fireworks nearby?

I had a horse hit by a car, he went off the rails for a few months, in hand.

Could you try him without the TB, just to see if he is actually happier without a pal in the same field?

Has he been zapped by an electric fence? I have known a couple lose confidence in everything after that as they didn't understand where it came from.

Echo about the hunt nearby, especially if he was a hireling.

Wasps nest, rats nest?

It'd be better if they could talk!!!

 

[Antw23uk]

If you are 100% that the behaviour change ties in with the arrival of the 2yo, then I would throw all and any idea into the mix that might relate to that. Yes it might be pure coincidence but this isn't your first winter together, if the situation/feed's not hugely different to the last 18 months.
So. Is he worried he's meant to be looking after the baby all the time and forgetting to relax? Has he in his past been nasty to a companion and been leathered for it (stranger things happen). Has he been attacked by a companion at the gateway (bearing in mind, at 13 he has more 'history' than experience with you, which sounds idyllic, to draw on)? You could try anthropomorphising and wonder whether he feels 'pushed out' by the new arrival having just learned you're his special safe person? And so on. And then there's always the 'bubbled over into ulcers adjusting to having a new friend" option...

On the other hand if this is the first time he's ever had alfalfa then that's got to be something to think about - never had one react to it myself, but I have had them react to the oddest of things, and not always instantly, so I'd never discount feed as an option until I'd ruled it out.

I definitely like your way of thinking and yes, all those things could be a reason as well as none of them. He is a complex little character with many layers I have yet to understand. I will start with the removal of the alfa alfa and then give consideration to the 'odd' stuff .. I think its going to be something odd if im honest although i hope its just the alfa!

@MissMay I've taken him on hunt and hound exercise ... he is so laid back hes practically horizontal and we dont get them close enough anyway. the same with fireworks, there is a display in the village which he would see from a distance but he doesnt seem the type to be overly worried by them. We are very horsey where i live and no one would have fireworks near the yard because pretty much every field with a horse in is owned by someone who also lives next to said field, if that makes sense.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I’m going propose that he might benefit from a change of yard, but that’s Pinot possible given your circumstances, is it? I had a TB mare that loathed our quiet little yard and totally changed for the better once on a busy one. Just a thought.

 

[Antw23uk]

I’m going propose that he might benefit from a change of yard, but that’s Pinot possible given your circumstances, is it? I had a TB mare that loathed our quiet little yard and totally changed for the better once on a busy one. Just a thought.

Thanks, but he has been great for the last twelve months, (sensitive yes, but happy and settled in his own little way) I thought for a while about putting him on livery during the winter so i could keep riding but the only thing that put me off was i genuinely think it would make him miserable. He's the type of horse you would say has 'been through so much' and has mental scars from his previous life so to move him to a busier place with different people and god forbid, rough handling by staff, even unintentionally (he'd have to be on some kind of livery package due to work) would be his worst kind of environment! I have known horses similar to what you describe so thank you but i dont believe he is that horse

 

[Caol Ila]

My horse completely lost. her. mind about a week after foaling. For the first week, I could approach and carefully handle her, but then she became wild during her foal heat, and stayed completely unapproachable. She would see that headcollar and run. Not ideal. Obviously your boy hasn't had every synapse in his brain fried by pregnancy and post-natal whatever (if he has, you got bigger issues), but maybe he's finding the presence of the two-year old overwhelming and wasn't that confident with handling to begin with?

I've found that if a horse was sort of tolerating a thing, but not that confident about it, then it does not take much change or stress to set them thinking, "I don't want to have any part of that."