PeterNatt
Well-Known Member
I would start hacking him out again each day and see if he is happier again.
He's unhinged ... But ....
- Thread starter Antw23uk
- Start date
MrsMozartleto
Just passing through...
Pears are high in sugar - if we gave to Grey Mare life would get very tricky (she not do well on sugar).
As others have said, both Alph A, the oil, and C&C can all have a negative effect on some horses.
His routine has changed - even though he seems fine with the new lad, it's a change to add into the change of less work. You have good reason for all but can't explain it to him unfortunately.
You'll find the thing as you care so much.
As others have said, both Alph A, the oil, and C&C can all have a negative effect on some horses.
His routine has changed - even though he seems fine with the new lad, it's a change to add into the change of less work. You have good reason for all but can't explain it to him unfortunately.
You'll find the thing as you care so much.
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
Calm and Condition should be re named 'Crackers and Condition'.....perhaps try omitting that and the alfalfa. He's a lucky boy to have found you....you sound like a lovely owner.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Have you told off the newbie OTTB within his hearing perhaps and he mistakenly thinks HE is in trouble?
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
I still shudder when I remember a few terrifying hacks out on my now retired mare, and a couple of weeks extremely iffy ground manners before it dawned on me to suspect the alfalfa I had recently added into her diet! Pure rocket fuel for her anyway.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Sounds like my shut down Highland. I found the more choice I gave him the more he chose to not be with me. Ridden he was polite if a little tense and occasionally too spooky to be enjoyable. There’s loads behaviourally you can do with him. I went down the clicker training route to get some interaction. Worked for us.
laura_nash
Well-Known Member
I was wondering this, my little rescue pony (who was similar, shut down, very good under saddle, not keen on people) wouldn't come near me for a week after I told the dog off for rolling in something disgusting in his field. I wasn't anywhere near him and didn't hit the dog or anything but just the raised voice and annoyance was enough to set him off. He also had another patch of avoiding all humans that turned out to be a neighbours dog getting in the field and being called back harshly (dog wasn't near the horses, so I think it was more the neighbours hollering at it).
HeyMich
Well-Known Member
My Irish mare has a very similar unknown past and also had a strange anxious episode about 6-8 months into owning her. There was no other reason to suspect ulcers, her coat was glossy, she had great condition, she was eating well etc, but we scoped her purely on a hunch and lo and behold, she had grade 2/3 squamous and glandular ulcers. Once treated, her silly behaviour totally stopped. Saying that, she can still stress and can be a complete idiot at times but I'm happy that that behaviour isn't related to pain.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
I haven't read much of the thread since my last post and probably many others have said this already: I would remove the alfalfa from his diet, immediately. Many horses react badly to alfalfa.
canteron
Well-Known Member
Slightly different tack, but my RID mares attitude changed 100% when I started doing some ‘Liberty’ work with her, she absolutely loved it and I think it strangely made her feel really secure.
Maybe try teaching him a few ‘tricks’ to see how he feels about it. TRT, Ben Hart, connection training, David Lichman and many others all have places to start.
Maybe try teaching him a few ‘tricks’ to see how he feels about it. TRT, Ben Hart, connection training, David Lichman and many others all have places to start.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
One other thought... Have you changed your after shave or anything?
I had a horse who could not abide the smell of alcohol. I was amazed at his reaction. First time, I had a Sunday lunch with some wine, went out to do afternoon stables and he acted as if I were lava. I am talking really nervous, and no, I wouldn't say I was drunk or acting in a drunken way.
It was inconvenient as he lived at home and I would often like a glass of wine at night, then do evening stables at 9pm!
It took ages to get him over it.
I had a horse who could not abide the smell of alcohol. I was amazed at his reaction. First time, I had a Sunday lunch with some wine, went out to do afternoon stables and he acted as if I were lava. I am talking really nervous, and no, I wouldn't say I was drunk or acting in a drunken way.
It was inconvenient as he lived at home and I would often like a glass of wine at night, then do evening stables at 9pm!
It took ages to get him over it.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
I think everyone has covered most things, but sometimes when turnout changes, the horse perhaps sees their role differently. He now may think he has to be vigilant because now he is herd leader. I had an Irish mare from about two, she was a cow, always wanted to be boss over the geldings, but couldn't cope with the stress, she would move others on constantly, never happy. Her son is pretty much the same, if there is no one more dominant than him. I bought a couple of old Irish brood mares, one was a mess head wise, but the other just had to flick an ear, and everything fell in to place, and the cow bag did as she was told. The young mare just settled.
I think every 'herd' needs an old pony, something that doesn't give a f, about most things, and can get out of the way if there is trouble.
I think every 'herd' needs an old pony, something that doesn't give a f, about most things, and can get out of the way if there is trouble.
EllieBeast
Well-Known Member
I’m so sorry to hear you’re having these issues with your boy. If the Alfa A is a new thing that fits the timescale- I’d take him off it. My usually very calm, level headed mare is a total knob on any form of alfalfa! Some horses are totally intolerant to it.
Good luck, I really hope it is that simple! It sounds like he’s finally found the home he deserves, between you, you’ll sort this ?
Good luck, I really hope it is that simple! It sounds like he’s finally found the home he deserves, between you, you’ll sort this ?
Ceriann
Well-Known Member
Lots of great advice here already. I have a charity mare - super sweet but anxious and I suspect hasn’t been treated well in the past. She’s bottom of herd type temperament, timid and changes in what’s important to her routine can upset her. She’s not ridden. When I introduced my ridden mare to the then herd of two she couldn’t cope. Absolutely fine as a herd (they settled v quickly) but bringing in and turning out was almost dangerous. I couldn’t control her so had to bridle her for my own safety. It took weeks for her to return to anything close to normal but she did. It might just be his way of saying my routine has changed, something big in my life has changed and I need time to work it out.
Dynamo
Well-Known Member
OP, he sounds just like our now elderly Irish RID ex-hirling. He was exactly the same when he arrived: a bit shut down, very polite to handle, but not at all affectionate, wouldn't accept a mint or a treat, and permanently worried although extremely mannerly to ride. It took a while, but he learned to be a member of the family as well as a work horse.
Nowadays, if he's ridden regularly, even if living out, he's fine, but if not we can't get near him and he's always on high alert. Once the headcollar is on he's Mr Manners again, but honestly, you'd think we beat him if you saw him scarper and us having to herd him into a small space to get near him. He's still extremely sensitive and can fret about changes, but we have a wonderful understanding because he is sensitive in good ways as well as some slightly unnerving ways. He's turned out to be the horse of a lifetime.
Give him some time. And no Alfalfa.
Nowadays, if he's ridden regularly, even if living out, he's fine, but if not we can't get near him and he's always on high alert. Once the headcollar is on he's Mr Manners again, but honestly, you'd think we beat him if you saw him scarper and us having to herd him into a small space to get near him. He's still extremely sensitive and can fret about changes, but we have a wonderful understanding because he is sensitive in good ways as well as some slightly unnerving ways. He's turned out to be the horse of a lifetime.
Give him some time. And no Alfalfa.
Lois Lame
Well-Known Member
My first thought was uh oh, fireworks, but I really think it's the Alfa stuff. I only know one horse who couldn't handle it and I'm not even sure about her because her owner was a ... an interesting sort of person.
But, the thing is, it'll be the easiest thing in the world to cut the Alfa and I know you've said you will. First things first and it might fix everything completely in a little while. (I don't know how long it 'takes' to 'leave the system' or anything but see how he is in a fortnight or two.)
He looked so happy with his new friend - surely it's not that. You sound like a wonderful owner.
But, the thing is, it'll be the easiest thing in the world to cut the Alfa and I know you've said you will. First things first and it might fix everything completely in a little while. (I don't know how long it 'takes' to 'leave the system' or anything but see how he is in a fortnight or two.)
He looked so happy with his new friend - surely it's not that. You sound like a wonderful owner.
Fluffypiglet
Well-Known Member
Hopefully it's the alfalfa, mine cannot cope with it at all. I think he probably hallucinates with the reaction I see. Definitely horse eating monsters everywhere! He's absolutely fine on calm and condition ?. Horses are weird. I also wanted to say that it is possible he'll relax more with you , it took over two years for mine to decide I'm trustworthy and start to show some affection. I didn't hear a noise out of him for about 3years. He's now able to cope with me telling him off (still relatively gently!) And even has the confidence to ignore me and push his luck. He will still have a melt down with any rough handling from anyone he doesn't know/trust and will always be a delicate flower but he's much happier with his life now.... 5years after I got him!
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
He sounds like he could be grass affected ! If you Google this with 'Calm Healthy Horses ' you'll get what I mean. Basically the ratios of salt , potassium and magnesium are out. My boy does so much better without grass or on little grass, he is calmer and more settled wien stabled more and gets salt and magnesium daily.
He also arrived very nervous and clearly not having had a nice life before- a year down the line he's a different horse but very much a mummy's boy and doesn't trust strangers but will do anything for me and I can do anything to/with him.
But too much grass will affect his behaviour.
He also arrived very nervous and clearly not having had a nice life before- a year down the line he's a different horse but very much a mummy's boy and doesn't trust strangers but will do anything for me and I can do anything to/with him.
But too much grass will affect his behaviour.
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
Oh and alfalfa is a big no-no for grass affected horses too.
Regandal
Well-Known Member
Hopefully you will get to the bottom of his issues op, best horse I have had was an ex hireling. He hated humans, had a sore back and ulcers. He ended up tolerating cuddles and would neigh at me when I arrived. God I miss him.
Antw23uk
Well-Known Member
@Dynamo all the advise has been wonderful but this, this has really hit a note because you have just described my horse.
@Sossigpoker funnily enough i haven't been adding salt to his diet for a few weeks because i ran out and only had a twisty scrunchy salt thing (I know, technical description or what, lol!) and the moisture got to it so i couldnt get the salt out. Salt was one of the things i added to his diet not long after i got him and back then i swore it made a difference but had forgotten all about it, thank you
Guys thank you all, i think each of you have pretty much described my horse and given me an idea of what i might be (the list is endless, lol, i knew it would/ could be) And THANK YOU for saying such kind things about me as an owner. I have my moments but i have a real fondness for this boy. We needed each other this time last year and its difficult to explain other than I think we were truly meant to meet and help each other out of a dark place. I'd forgotten about that and needed a reminder as to why i genuinely love him.
It absolutely could be me shouting at the dog or pulling the baby TB into check (babies just get bloody everywhere don't they, lol!) which i know triggers him, so combined with the change in herd, the feed, the dark nights and my head being more focused on the baby and lack of riding, all this has got his brain overthinking and its just escalated to this that we have today!
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
@Dynamo all the advise has been wonderful but this, this has really hit a note because you have just described my horse.
@Sossigpoker funnily enough i haven't been adding salt to his diet for a few weeks because i ran out and only had a twisty scrunchy salt thing (I know, technical description or what, lol!) and the moisture got to it so i couldnt get the salt out. Salt was one of the things i added to his diet not long after i got him and back then i swore it made a difference but had forgotten all about it, thank you
If you've dropped the salt and added alfa you have probably created the perfect storm. Its mainly due to potassium and magnesium. So stop the alfa, add the salt and add some mag ox. I think you will see a change for the better.
I'd also second clicker training. I did it with my old shut down boy and it really helped something click in his head.
Antw23uk
Well-Known Member
I've attached a pic of how I pretty much see my horses Monday-Friday at the moment. Hacking every day is not an option, hahaa
I will start working him again at wekeends though, recently we've just been working on seperation from the baby so always staying close to the yard (the usual, hiding behind stables/ bushes etc to see if the baby TB tries to hang himself or die on the post and rail .. thankfully he doesnt care) So i will get him out and about for some nice hacks as well as all the other great tips, thank you Attachments
Regandal
Well-Known Member
Oh my, look at those big ears! Love them. The sensitive ones are hard work, but worth it a hundred times over.
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
You need about a table spoon of salt (cheap table salt is fine)twice a day. But at the same time you will want him off grass (especially if there is clover ) , off any alfalfa and with added magnesium. His potassium levels are probably way too high so you will need a period of time to balance them.
In the spring my gelding had a period of being batshit crazy , super nervous and spooky , trying to bolt , proper mental , reducing his grass worked wonders together with temporarily increasing his salt and magnesium.
He also goes unlevel behind with too much grass.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
Just a naive question but what do you feed him as Hay is grass grassnuts by definition are grass grass chaff is grass so if you don't feed alfalfa and you don't feed grass what do you feed. I understand that your grazing might be unbalanced but it is that not the grass that are the problem in some areas espeially in winter
SEL
Well-Known Member
If feed changes don't work then it really could be the new horse. For my dominant mare it doesn't actually have to be a new horse in her field, anything adjacent can cause just as much stress. I think she can't work out the pecking order and until that's established she's vile to be around.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I've attached a pic of how I pretty much see my horses Monday-Friday at the moment. Hacking every day is not an option, hahaa
OMG, adorable ears!!!!
Quigleyandme
Well-Known Member
Working horses in Ireland can have a pretty hard life. I met a man who has a hotel and a trekking operation who invited me to come on a hack. The horse was being ridden when I arrived. We went on a three and a half hour hack along steep mountain tracks and when we got back somebody else got on him. While I was riding him he stopped and tried to suck up some water from a puddle. I was told to boot him on which I refused to do. He wasn’t allowed to drink when we got back to the yard even though I told the YM he was thirsty. It was a really distressing and dispiriting experience. The owner had always talked about his horses with such passion but welfare clearly wasn‘t a priority. I’ve only been here two years but this is a bit of a theme. More than one passionate horse breeder has expressed wonderment that I go to the Herculean bother of trying to make my horses’ lives as comfortable, content and healthy as possible and some stories my farrier tells me make me so upset. Maybe OP’s horse is just decompressing but he is in very good hands.