High energy mare mentally checking out when anticipating a fun activity

[LizzieTrippin]

Bit of a strange one but wondered if anyone here has experienced this and if so what is the best thing to do in this situation.
Before I explain what it is I must say that I had a VERY similar mare as a teenager (who only passed last year) we were so fond of her she stayed despite me outgrowing her. Anyway she did exactly the same thing with me after about two years of owning her so it wasn't a huge shock when my current mare started doing this a couple of months ago.

So very high energy sport horse I've owned nearly four years. Thoroughbred X just like my old pony mare. Jumping is her forte but just very fizzy jig jogging on hacks and wants to explode into a gallop at any given chance. She's a handful.
She's started to do this weird thing where if she has the opportunity to anticipate something fun we may be about to partake she just stops dead in her tracks and turns into a donkey. I can kick and push and nothing happens. The only way I can get her through it is completely buttering her up with affection and reassurance and then she sort of snaps out of it and snaps back to high energy 'let me at it' kind of behaviour. She would never do it half way through something so once she's in a nice canter in the sj arena or locking onto a fence she will continue as normal but it seems to be triggered when she has a moment to realise she's about to be pointed in the direction of a common canter track/field or about to enter an arena.
I'm concerned as my old sj mare used to do this and it could be a coincidence as they are so similar in nature and mind or its something I've caused.

My mum always says lizzie is so happy to be my horse... She had a rough life before me being passed from pillar to post as she is quite the handful to ride let alone jump as she often bucks around the sj arena and when trying to do a collected canter on a hack she puts them in to unbalance me so she can try to gallop (she's never succeeded but keeps trying)
I do love her and she has a home for life before anyone gets the wrong impression, I'm just keen to get to the bottom of this issue so I can help her.
It's not become a huge issue yet and never stopped us doing anything.

I worry that maybe I've let her have too much fun with me and as a result she feels insecure. A bit deep I know for a horse so opinions needed. Alternatively if I keep her under my thumb and never break out of a walk on hacks - Where's the fun in that?
Trotting and road work are hard work as she often refuses to trot nicely for me and canters sideways. I've tried everything including (sadly including a good telling off) nothing works so we often just walk on roads and the rest is an uncomfortable collected canter and the occasional gallop up a hill. Schooling only happens a couple of times a month and she's had me off with a buck on the turn so I have to really prep myself up for any schooling but most of the time she works well and very hard with her jumping.
She has had all relevant checks with vet and saddle fitter and even had her ovaries scanned so it's none of that. She is just a complete nutter in general!

Any ideas/opinions appreciated

 

[milliepops]

this horse sounds stressed tbh. I don't think she's anticipating fun, i think she's checking out because she's stressed. Horses don't usually buck specifically because they want to unbalance the rider, they buck because there is something wrong.

Horses can definitely feel insecure, it's not too deep a concept, i think it's one of the most fundamental things a horse needs, to feel secure in its environment.

What has your vet checked exactly? and have you got an instructor or trainer? it seems to me like you need to step back a fair bit and start from the beginning to work out why your horse is so stressy.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Hmmm sorry I'm not convinced this is a happy mare and if its happening for a second time with a second horse then i personally would assume its something I'm doing! I watch a youtube channel and the young girl is always saying how excited her horse is to be going out in the trailer and how excited she is to get to an event .. All i see is a really stressed anxiety riddled mare

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have to agree with the other 2 posters it sounds like stress or an anxiety problem, I would be concerned if a horse bucked nearly every time I rode it's not normal. I think I would be getting a proper vet work up done especially as the behaviour has now changed with the switching off whilst being ridden.

 

[ihatework]

It’s anxiety.
It shows as either going into themselves, or going in a fast/stressy way.
In your case switching from one to the other.

So, assuming there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the horse, positive reassurance when they go into themselves, but importantly don’t confuse the buzzy with keen. Slow it all down, re-educate, let them understand and relax

 

[AdorableAlice]

It’s anxiety.
It shows as either going into themselves, or going in a fast/stressy way.
In your case switching from one to the other.

So, assuming there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the horse, positive reassurance when they go into themselves, but importantly don’t confuse the buzzy with keen. Slow it all down, re-educate, let them understand and relax

Totally, and I can give an example of this.

A cob I bought in 2012 aged 5 and uneducated. Had been ragged around a bit with novice owner and had her own agenda over a lot of things. On the ground appalling to handle, ridden unbalanced, crooked and no steering but it wasn't bothered by a 44 ton truck up its arse so I bought it home. The advert declared the horse would not go into the school and if forced was unpredictable.

She had a huge lump of muscle under her neck and no top line, it soon became apparent that she could not carry a rider and got very tired very quickly, she had not had any correct and incremental ridden education. Out hacking as soon as we reached a hill she would slow or stop, basically she napped in a half hearted way and when asked to continue she would start to hop up and down and go sideways attempting to canter up the slope, she has smacked me in the nose doing this. She simply could not engage her back and hind end to get up the hill. It would be very easy to think she was anticipating going faster up hill by her bopping around. All she was anticipating was pain and effort. It is harder work for the horse to walk up hill in a balanced and engaged way than it is for them to drop onto the forehand and drag themselves up in trot. Given her shape she had dragged herself along in a banana shape from the point she was broken (badly).

Going into the school produced a more determined nap and once in, her wall of death effort was impressive. A diagonal change produced panic and a big hop to throw the rider back on the preferred diagonal. All her problems, physical and mental were sorted by going back to basics, hours spent in walk getting her straight, shoulder fore is useful for this. Transitions within walk and halt, just getting her to listen relax and drop her neck. Any loss of balance and a halt was ridden. This initial work was done in the school and in the fields because I don't believe a horse that is uncontrollable should be ridden on the roads, if you can't move the shoulders and quarters you are not in control enough to move the horse from oncoming traffic.

Once she could put her head down, her back strengthened, her wither came up and the penny dropped for her. Circles became possible, bend was possible and balance came. It took a long time and her behaviour could have been viewed as excitement by some, but it was her simply saying 'I can't' rather than anything else. She is great now, still a pocket rocket but in a balanced and forwards way, safe and a fun active ride, able to give a ride judge a decent spin and do a prelim test. Well worth the effort and work that went in. I so think horses tell us they have problems and we just have to listen.

 

[Trouper]

What a fascinating write-up, AA. Sorry OP nothing to add to what others have said.

 

[Bellaboo18]

She sounds so stressed/uncomfortable. Pain tends to show as a horse being very backward including planting and zoning out from fear of going forward or running through the pain.

She can't decide which one is best so is doing a bit of both.

 

[stormox]

I think its possible she doesnt actually like the 'fun activities' or finds them painful - not wanting to do them and then rushing to get them over a.s.a.p.

 

[LizzieTrippin]

Thankyou to all for your opinions and advice.
Not the answers I was hoping for! But forcing me to re consider the idea that it could be pain. I'd come to think that she is just what she is after owning her for several years now. She has consistently been a high energy showjumper and performs brilliantly - she scoops up wins regularly - and although controversial, I just thought she was one of those anomaly showjumper that enjoys a good buck. Together we have overcome alot of bad behaviour during the first 6 months of owning her, she would nap and rear and it was frightening and I could see why people had given up with her but we worked through it and we are such a good team now and she no longer does any of the nasty stuff. I had all the relevant checks done and after speaking with previous owners I had come to the conclusion that she's just a bit of a wild one. One of her previous owners had her for two years. She evented her and told me she was the best jumping horse she ever owned but couldn't get her around a test due to the fizz and so sold her to a showjumping yard where she then ended up doing the rounds after teenagers were unable to stay on.
I'm still holding on to the idea that I know my own horse and do still think it's from over excitement and the anticipation of doing something she enjoys BUT after so many responses pointing toward pain and anxiety I think it's wise to get some more professional opinions. Chiro a good place to start and maybe look at her saddle again but I wish you all could see what she's like. I've ridden many showjumpers and owned many other horses and she really is a one of a kind (or two!)
Frustrated ?

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Thankyou to all for your opinions and advice.
Not the answers I was hoping for! But forcing me to re consider the idea that it could be pain. I'd come to think that she is just what she is after owning her for several years now. She has consistently been a high energy showjumper and performs brilliantly - she scoops up wins regularly - and although controversial, I just thought she was one of those anomaly showjumper that enjoys a good buck. Together we have overcome alot of bad behaviour during the first 6 months of owning her, she would nap and rear and it was frightening and I could see why people had given up with her but we worked through it and we are such a good team now and she no longer does any of the nasty stuff. I had all the relevant checks done and after speaking with previous owners I had come to the conclusion that she's just a bit of a wild one. One of her previous owners had her for two years. She evented her and told me she was the best jumping horse she ever owned but couldn't get her around a test due to the fizz and so sold her to a showjumping yard where she then ended up doing the rounds after teenagers were unable to stay on.
I'm still holding on to the idea that I know my own horse and do still think it's from over excitement and the anticipation of doing something she enjoys BUT after so many responses pointing toward pain and anxiety I think it's wise to get some more professional opinions. Chiro a good place to start and maybe look at her saddle again but I wish you all could see what she's like. I've ridden many showjumpers and owned many other horses and she really is a one of a kind (or two!)
Frustrated ?
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Dont be disheartened. You know her better than any of us and you have given us a 'brief' in your first post which we've responded to so dont take it too personally. You've now given more information which may change some people's mind and you, of course, might be right, she may just be a bit of a fruit loop who enjoys her job a little too much! Dont rule anything out, come at it from a holistic, whole horse, approach and see where you get to

Good luck, she looks lovely