hmmm. Hope you did enjoy the Grand National..

MagicMelon said:
So sad. Those photos are just dreadful. I'm pretty ashamed we allow this race in our country.

With regard to if a horse "likes" to be ridden. I believe my horse is happy to be ridden as I've never ever had to beat him or even smack him to jump and do his job. They whip those racehorses a lot, and they use very very young horses who we all know are very innocent at that age.
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Sorry, you are wrong. They do not use whips 'a lot', they are strictly limited in how much they can use the whip. You will never see a racehorse whipped into every fence. Ever.

And the horses in the National were not 'very young'. National Hunt horses are not raced 'very young'.
 
Regarding if horses liked their jobs etc, how many of you have had an ex racer and hit a green stretch of field felt your ride perk up, ears pricked and all you have to do is get off their backs and they fly. It's a beautiful feeling and I miss my ex racer every single day nothing compares. He was never rude always asked he was national hunt and was a fantastic jumper
 
teagreen said:
Sorry, you are wrong. They do not use whips 'a lot', they are strictly limited in how much they can use the whip. You will never see a racehorse whipped into every fence. Ever.

And the horses in the National were not 'very young'. National Hunt horses are not raced 'very young'.
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the lady jockey and even the winner were given a few days suspension for overuse of the whip - tbh dont think theyd be bothered about that thought when trying ot win.
Maybe if those found to overuse the whip were disqualified it woudl be a deterrent - seems like the few day ban is a smack on teh wrist to appease those who dont like it ?
 
narkymare said:
the lady jockey and even the winner were given a few days suspension for overuse of the whip - tbh dont think theyd be bothered about that thought when trying ot win.
Maybe if those found to overuse the whip were disqualified it woudl be a deterrent - seems like the few day ban is a smack on teh wrist to appease those who dont like it ?
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She didn't hurt the horse though - you'd have heard about it if it was marked. But she went over the limit and got a ban - I think that is a good punishment. It maybe doesn't matter so much for Katie Walsh but if you are given say, a 5 day ban, that is 5 days without income and when it is your profession, you want to try and avoid it. It also all tallys up, so if you amass a certain amount of days you are given a larger suspension and sent for remedial schooling. Katie was hitting the horse and it was finding for her, she wasn't hitting it in vain, it was speeding up.

I would agree if jockeys were smacking horses the whole way round, but they don't, ever. Some posters seem to think that the horses are beaten into every fence, and I want to try and dispell that daft myth.
 
teagreen said:
She didn't hurt the horse though -
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I seem to be picking up on some of your comments teagreen... I don't really mean to single you out but you seem to inspire me to post. ;)

If whips don't hurt how are they 'motivating'? Why was caning banned in schools? Perhaps it should be used as a 'motivator' rather than punishment in schools too if it doesn't hurt... :p
 
>>>How wonderful of the Daily Mail to make the picture of the poor horse dying the massive picture on their front page. Disgusting - shows no respect, they wouldn't do that if it was a picture of a person dying. Then again, it's the Daily Mail, maybe they would...<<<

Actually newspapers DO publish photographs of people dying. Have you forgotten the dreadful images published of the Hillsborough disaster? Men, women and children being crushed against the fence in the overcrowded pen? Many years ago I remember a television report showing policemen shovelling up the remains of humans killed in an IRA bomb. I don't think that would be shown today, but it was considered OK at that time. Sometimes it takes shocking images to provoke public opinion and instigate change. I feel less runners would result in less injuries to jockeys and horses alike yet take nothing from the excitement of the race or the skill it demands.
 
teagreen said:
I gather from your past posts that you ride. How do you know your horse enjoys being ridden?
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I doubt he does enjoy being ridden. He does it because he has been trained too. Im not going into why i ride, ive explained before and am not gonna again.

I think that horses do what we say to have an easy life. A horse that misbehaves a lot is gonna have a harder life than one that does what he is asked. And yes, if you take a horse for a canter and he seems to enjoy it, thats because he likes running. Its in his nature. It doesnt say anything about him enjoying being ridden. I dont really think most horses mind being ridden, as one who does mind, will normally tell you. But i think to say a horse ENJOYS having a human on his back and having to do lots of movements, getting tired out, having a metal thing in his mouth and basically being told what to do and how to do it. I doubt that very much.

Yes this is my opinion, most people dont agree with me, which is fine. I think people tell themselves that horses like being ridden, just so that we can carry on doing it without feeling guilty about it.
 
D'ya know, I've just done a search on the HHOF and found that this post has happened every year at the same time since around 1982, looks like it'll be going same time next year, and the next, and the next........
 
My mind isn't really made up on this debate. But I will say that the whole "if you don't like it, don't watch/participate" is a really stupid argument. If everyone in the world ignored things they didn't like instead of standing up and trying to do something about them instead, it'd be a very poor state of affairs.
 
I enjoy the race every year, I think the challege of the huge obsticles is why the race is so popular, heck i've had most of my friends betting on various horses, and they dont know one end from the other! The death of the two horses really shook me up, but in the end thats the risk that goes along with racing. I work in a racing yard part time, and I own an ex-racer myself, and so I know for certain that the horses love what they are doing. I can't exactly vouch for every single racehorse, but im pretty sure they wouldn't bother leaping those huge fences if they didn't want too.
As your all riders, you'll understand yourselves how your horse acts when he dislikes something, if a racehorse hated his job, he wouldnt make it to the top race of all time.
 
alligator40 said:
The DM isn't the only paper that has published sensational, paper selling pics..

back in 1979, Rubstic's National, that years Gold Cup winner Alverton was killed at Bechers second time round..and i can still clearly remember the harrowing pics of Jonjo O'Neill sat by the horses head with tears in his eyes..

i'm pretty sure it was front page of all the red top sunday papers...very sad.. :(
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How are they sensionalist? They portray a moment in time as it was. Would you say photographs of the recent Japanese Tsunami are sensationalist?
 
It's not sensationalist coverage, it's the truth. And i'm glad it's been published because the way the TV reports it, they just brush over the fact that these horses have died. I haven't watched racing for years, since i saw a lovely chestnut with a foreleg so badly broken that it was swinging wildly around as the horse hopped about terrified. It makes me feel sick.

Yes a horse can break a leg or neck in the field or in any sort of riding. But 40 horses jumping massive jumps at breakneck speed is setting the poor beasts up for failure. Maybe the horses do have fun (although i think the exhausted, wild eyed looks after they've been whipped accross the line tell me otherwise) but i'm 100% sure that any horse in a tangle like those photos show would be absolutely distraught and in fear of it's life. And every single year there is a tangle of fallen horses being trampled by dozens of others, ending up in a mess of limbs and in this particular race usually death. It's a testiment to the horses that so few die, having to navigate their way around and over fallen bodies.

I do not like racing, i find little to like about it. But the Grand National makes me sick.
 
Disgusting, putting those horses in that situation. Those pictures are really disturbing, and how is it MUCH different to htings such as the 'suicide race' or the road racing in Italy... truth is it isn't all that different.
 
teagreen, I think you'll find mares, foals and stallions are being slaughtered en masse as we speak... so??

Oh and as for jobs - I'm sure they will find something, the racing industry has some of the finest minds in the land....

I'm not worried, when a real crisis hits us, it will be the first industry to suffer anyway as no-one will be able to afford such luxuries. The first to suffer will always be the animals.

In fact, I've changed my mind. Compared to what some other cultures make horses do, the GN is pretty lame.
 
Jennyharvey said:
But i think to say a horse ENJOYS having a human on his back and having to do lots of movements, getting tired out, having a metal thing in his mouth and basically being told what to do and how to do it. I doubt that very much. I think people tell themselves that horses like being ridden, just so that we can carry on doing it without feeling guilty about it.
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What a load of twaddle :rolleyes: good job I'm not stupid enough to believe a word of that, I would have to get rid of my horses as I wouldn't want them to HATE being with me ... god this is getting ridiculous :eek:
 
Lollii said:
What a load of twaddle :rolleyes: good job I'm not stupid enough to believe a word of that, I would have to get rid of my horses as I wouldn't want them to HATE being with me ... god this is getting ridiculous :eek:
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I don't think it's ridiculous, you can't expect everyone to agree with it. There will always be opinions either way, no matter what it is.
 
Jennyharvey said:
I doubt he does enjoy being ridden. He does it because he has been trained too. Im not going into why i ride, ive explained before and am not gonna again.

I think that horses do what we say to have an easy life. A horse that misbehaves a lot is gonna have a harder life than one that does what he is asked. And yes, if you take a horse for a canter and he seems to enjoy it, thats because he likes running. Its in his nature. It doesnt say anything about him enjoying being ridden. I dont really think most horses mind being ridden, as one who does mind, will normally tell you. But i think to say a horse ENJOYS having a human on his back and having to do lots of movements, getting tired out, having a metal thing in his mouth and basically being told what to do and how to do it. I doubt that very much.

Yes this is my opinion, most people dont agree with me, which is fine. I think people tell themselves that horses like being ridden, just so that we can carry on doing it without feeling guilty about it.
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My horses have always loved the XC and SJ phases. And the racehorses I rode out loved their work. Perhaps you need to look at your own horsemanship if your horses don't enjoy it?
 
alligator40 said:
So what is your take on giving horses away for nothing...considering the horror stories recently reported in H&H?

I see you are offering one of your's in the same circumstance...

You are very naive...and somewhat foolhardy.
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You know the very same thought crossed my mind too........ :(
 
Yes, and unfortunately these are the horses in the abattoir queues, these are the ones that get shipped abroad.

What I don't get is why it's OK for the individual owner to get rid of a horse they no longer want, but if a racehorse owner does the very same thing, somehow that's wrong? :confused: :rolleyes:
 
BroadfordQueen said:
Its sad, very sad. I love the grand national, but I hate to see the death of horses. However- horses die. All horses die. Take comfort in the fact that these horses die almost instantly. They don't have human emotions- they don't think "oh god, theres a chance I could die in this race". They don't know whats going to happen to them.
Think more for the poor horses who are abondoned, mistreated, beaten, starved- these animals suffer. They know that they are in pain, that they are hungry. They are miserable. These race horses aren't miserable, they live the life of a king. No, I'm not involved in the racing industry but I'm friends with the daughter of the owners of State Of Play, I've visited their yard, aswell as the owner of a horse who ran in the race over the GN fences a few days ago- infact I looked after their yard while they went on holiday. I've visited several top racing yards on my course at uni, I've seen how they live. They are all so, so happy.
Just put it into prospective. I haven't seen you post about the poor horses who are genuinely miserable, hurting, in pain.
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Couldn't agree more.........
 
Just my tuppence worth regarding whips.

The whips, when they are used which is not all the time, are an extension of the 'go forwards' aid that the jockeys are giving with their legs/bodies. Yes, the probably could try not whipping them, but some horses don't respond to that.

I rather see them do that, than watch idiots at low level BS beat their horses when they have a stop at a fence that the rider has poorly presented the horse at, giving it no options to take off, and then dropping them at the fence at the last minute. Morons.
 
Girlracer said:
I don't think it's ridiculous, you can't expect everyone to agree with it. There will always be opinions either way, no matter what it is.
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You don't think it's ridiculous that someone spouts on about rubbish like this? quote:'But i think to say a horse ENJOYS having a human on his back and having to do lots of movements, getting tired out, having a metal thing in his mouth and basically being told what to do and how to do it. I doubt that very much'

Pah! Twaddle ... what a load of rubbish, most horses I know of love going out, they *enjoy* being ridden, I don't think I have ever read such rubbish on here before :rolleyes:
 
alligator40 said:
So what is your take on giving horses away for nothing...considering the horror stories recently reported in H&H?

I see you are offering one of your's in the same circumstance...

You are very naive...and somewhat foolhardy.
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Pssst, it's not my horse. And i'm not sure i had any opinion on giving horses away for nothing?
 
alligator40 said:
As it not your horse, what is your opinion then?
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Well i wouldn't do it myself, and hope never to be in a situation where i'd need to. But i have heard and seen plenty of success stories. I think part of it is how well the next home is vetted, although of course this doesn't always mean the horse won't end up somewhere totally un-suitable. The dilema is if a horse really isn't worth much, if anything at all how do you move them on if your situation means you need to.

I think the horse in my signature has found himself a lovely home with a lady on my yard, and he's had 3 years not wanting for anything after being given away, so when the people involved are on the horses side it can work out.
 
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