Holding a stable on retention - how long is too long?

[Expo]

I am close friends with both parties here, as I keep my horse at the yard, and they are both trying to "get me on side", so I'd appreciate some insights please. I'll try and keep it short! Who is right here, as I can see both sides of the situation?

Jane sold her horse (for good reasons) in May this year, and immediately started to look for a new one. The search has been a bit stop start, as she's looking for something very specific, and so far, she has not found the "perfect" horse. YO Mary gave her a month's grace and then asked her to pay a retainer on her stable - around 25% of the normal monthly payment (large, full livery yard, with excellent facilities - and very much in demand locally). Jane has paid the retainer as asked, but has now - unfortunately - developed a medical condition which will require treatment, and possible surgery followed by more recuperation time. As such it is highly unlikely that she will be in a position to get another horse for up to a year, at which point the stable will have been empty for around 18 months or more.

Jane takes the view that, as long as the retainer is paid, the empty stable is "hers" for as long as she chooses, and there is no hurry to get a horse to put in it. She also keeps all her rugs and other stuff in the storage which goes with the stable, and her saddles in the tack room. Mary is taking the stance that the retainer was a temporary situation until Jane bought a new horse and went back to paying full livery fees every month - which she assumed would be a short term arrangement. She is now losing a significant amount of revenue from the empty space, and has had enquiries from possible new, full fee paying liveries. She has assured Jane that she will find her a space when (and if) she gets a new horse in due course, but can't keep the stable empty for a whole year.

So, who is right. Either - A) The stable is Jane's while ever she pays the retainer, or B) Mary has the right, as yard owner to ask her to relinquish it so it can be given to a new livery. Contractually, we all have a contract detailing livery services and responsibiliies etc, but there is nothing in it to cover this situation. So far I'm keeping my head down and trying to stay out of it. Both parties are trying to stay amicable!

 

[Barton Bounty]

If I were the YO at this later stage to still hold the stable I would be looking for the full amount for the stable. At the end of the day its her livelihood ? I do see both points though

 

[cauda equina]

B, as the arrangement was assumed to be short term but the siuation has now changed

 

[HashRouge]

The YO is in the right, Jane is in the wrong. If Jane wants to hold the stable any longer, she needs to pay the full cost for an empty stable.

 

[Lamehorses]

I would expect to pay more than 25% retainer to keep the stable / storage for more than a couple of months.
To continue holding the stable I think more like 75% would need to be paid now, so a small discount for consumables that are not being used, hay etc

 

[Goldenstar]

I think the yard owner is right it was temporary thing and she never intended the stable would be empty so long .
If Jane wants to keep the stable she will have to pay the full cost of the Yoer keeping it empty that’s the loss of profit ,plus the cost of that stables share of the fixed costs of running the business staff rates repairs utilities the reduction should be the cost of what the Yoer saves that’s the cost of bedding forage and hard feed things like that .

 

[AmyMay]

A retainer is of little use to a YO who makes a living from liveries. As a YO I would now be ending the ‘retainer’ term, wishing Jane good luck with her recovery and giving her notice on by when the stable is to be emptied of her belongings. It’s ridiculous for Jane to think that she can keep the empty stable on indefinitely as a storage facility without paying the full livery amount.

 

[Keith_Beef]

It's tough on Jane, but Mary should be able to let the place out to a paying livery client and get the full revenue.

I'd suggest that Mary could come to an arrangement that if another livery leaves in 18 months' time, or whenever Jane recovers from her condition, then Jane could have the place on a 50% retainer for 3 months while looking for another horse.

 

[malwhit]

The yard owner needs to give her a month's notice, or whatever the notice period is for that yard. Unless they agree to pay the full livery fees.

 

[Art Nouveau]

As a yard owner,I definitely don't agree with Jane! Only 25%?

Is there not a contract in place that allows the YO to give notice? Even if there isn't a formal contract, I would expect that an implied contract would allow for notice to be given.

From a livery side, I have one here who may take her horse off site for a couple of months and has said she will pay full rate to keep her place. I have offered to deduct the hay cost but financially I can't do more than that. I have a waiting list as well.

I really think Jane is being unrealistic with how little she is prepared to pay to keep her place. On a full livery yard, the YO isn't going to have less staff costs or overheads just because one horse isn't there. The only bill reduction I see is hay, bedding and hard feed if these are normally included

 

[ihatework]

Yard owner 100%.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I do see janes point of view that she is now in the position of surgery and I do not doubt that she fully intends to get another horse. However this happened to me. I had to send the mare back as basically she was a big c word! And I paid full stable amount until I found BB, which was months.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

OP, a fab yard local to me will do a retainer but only up to a three month period max.
After that the livery has the choice of paying fully or going onto the yard wait list, but will go to the top of that list. It's in their contract.

If I were YO I would now give livery full and final notice.

 

[SO1]

I lost my pony in July and am on part livery. I gave my months notice when I knew he was being PTS which was the full amount for a month.

I have not paid anything since then. All my stuff is there and his stable is empty. I expect it will take a while before I find a new pony as I am fussy and ideally want one related to the one I lost.

It is not just a full livery yard so they do have DIY stables and also take short term rehabs.

The agreement we have is that they will fill my stable last. I have helped her out with a few non equine jobs which are within my skill set.

YO is however fussy about who she takes and would rather have a few empty stables than the wrong clients and I am a long standing livery and she never had to chase me for payment and I am very quiet customer and tried to be helpful. It is not a yard with a huge waiting list. They do rehab and holiday livery and can use my stable for that. It is not reserved for my personal use.

They also have plenty of storage space and it is not attached to a stable.

In Jane's situation she is now not actively looking for a horse so I would say YO if she has a waiting list may want to fill the space.

I would not expect Jane to pay 100% as there is the issue of hay, bedding and feed which will not be consumed.

I think the YO can do whatever she wants it is her yard. In some ways it depends on how keen she is to retain Jane as a client.

I think 18 months is a long time to hold a stable for and Jane may save a huge amount of money not paying the retainer and taking a risk of not having a space.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Give a months notice to end the retainer.
the individual can then either pay full price to keep the space, or it can be given to somebody else. Times are hard, why should the yard owner lose out on the full amount?

 

[Winters100]

At our yard we pay normal rate minus a small deduction for hay / bedding to keep a box. It seems reasonable to me as YO still needs to employ the same number of staff, pay the same utilities / property tax etc, and they need to (hopefully) make some profit. While it is, of course, unfortunate that the lady is unable to have another horse right now, it is not reasonable to expect the YO to suffer a loss in income as a result.

 

[dogatemysalad]

When on DIY, every YO has charged full DIY rate to hold a stable and store equipment. Not sure about full livery rates, but a reduction for not using bedding and feed would be fair.
Jane's YO has been very generous. Profit margins are tight for yards these days.

 

[Trouper]

If surgery is possibly going to be involved there is just no way of knowing how long this process might drag on for. Your friend has to get herself fit to ride first before she can realistically look for another horse so this is totally open-ended. You simply cannot expect a YO to operate on 25% income for that length of time.

 

[Ambers Echo]

YO is definitely in the right here. She has also said she’ll find Jane a space if/when she gets a new horse. So really not sure what more she wants YO to do?

 

[AmyMay]

As an aside. Why is the YO trying to get you ‘on side’? It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone except the Jane and the business owner YO.

 

[twiggy2]

As an aside. Why is the YO trying to get you ‘on side’? It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone except the Jane and the business owner YO.

It'd not the most professional way of doing things is it?
YO should just give notice that it's full rates minus consumables or out, they will be losing money on the stable and shouldn't have to do they, they have been very generous till now.

 

[ester]

25% is a very low retainer and to have had that for 6 months already seems very lucky to me, and taking the pee moving forwards.

 

[ycbm]

Why is the yard owner not feeling strong enough to sort this out herself without your support against someone who is a friend?

She's 100% right, she needs to stand up as a business woman and say what is going to happen.
.

 

[Widgeon]

As an aside. Why is the YO trying to get you ‘on side’? It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone except the Jane and the business owner YO.

I assume because they are both feeling frustrated and keen not to be seen as the bad guy. It's a fairly normal human thing to do, if not very businesslike.

ETA but yes I agree with YCBM!

 

[Red-1]

YO's property = YO's rules.

If there is a waiting list, I think that YO has been more than generous. Sounds like Jane is not appreciative. Never does a good deed go unpunished and all that!

 

[doodle]

I thought you were going to say she was paying the full amount. 25% is not acceptable for more than a month. Jane should either pay the full amount or stop paying entirely and loose her space. Mary should say either you pay the full amount (perhaps minus a little for hay and bedding if included) or here is your one months notice to vacate.

 

[atropa]

YO is completely in the right and actually if I was Jane I'd be very grateful to her for saying she would find me a stable when the time comes.
I would expect to pay the entire livery cost to keep a stable plus storage on retainer, with maybe a discount for hay and bedding if on full

 

[Gloi]

The stable should be re-let. If Jane wants somewhere to store stuff she should come to a separate arrangement about that.

 

[AntiPuck]

Madness that this person thinks they should be able to reserve the stable indefinitely at 25% of the cost.

 

[Abacus]

Violent agreement here also that the YO has every right to end the 25% retainer, offering Jane the option to pay nearly full price for keeping the stable. And that she should sort this problem in a professional way.

Reductions she could make from the full price include consumables and possibly a small amount to cover the lower level of work she is not having to do looking after the horse, and also for maintenance. This probably wouldn’t reduce the cost much for Jane but might be a pleasant gesture at this time.