Holding horse's tongue, the hyoid bones, and doing major damage. :(

[kerilli]

I was shown years ago how to pull horse's tongue out to the side for worming. I've also done it to check teeth without a gag. I was NEVER told that I could do any damage doing this.
I have just (oh, god, i feel so guilty and ashamed) discovered that the horse's tongue is attached at the back of the mouth with a really delicate mechanism including the hyoid bones (i'm sure someone more scientific will describe this properly) and that pulling the tongue out to the side can do a LOT of irreparable damage.
someone more experienced than me will hopefully give more info (vets, dentists, please?!) but in the meantime, I just wanted this info to be spread, in case anyone else was as ignorant as I was/am, and unwittingly risking damaging their horses.

 

[Fletch]

My EDT told me this years ago. Holding it straight out but not pulling at it is OK but never to the side. Everybody I have mentioned this to since looks at me like I am mad and carries on holding tongue to the side, so thanks for the confirmation!

 

[MissDeMeena]

I've not held a tongue out the side to worm for years, i just shove wormer in mouth, hold head up high and push plunger, holding head up untill horse has swallowed.. however i used to do the tongue thing and never knew that.. when you say damage, what sort of damage?

 

[kerilli]

bloody wish my EDT had told ME this years ago. i wormed them all yesterday and didn't grab their tongues, thank god!
apparently if the hyoid bones are broken it can permanently affect the horse's balance (like inner ear imbalance in humans.)
jeeeeez. whoever showed me how to pull their tongue to the side, i'd like to get up against a wall right now.

poor horses.

 

[BuckingHorse]

Gosh, thanks for this. I never knew that either.

 

[rotters13]

How easily damaged exactly? My horse spends 97% of her time in the stable waving her tongue around to the side of her mouth! Ahhh!

 

[LEC]

It used to be a way of pulling their manes as well but actually is no longer done as a twitch is usually more beneficial. Have not held a horses tongue for years which sounds like its a good thing.

 

[Zebedee]

Same boat - only just found out by reading your post. I was shown how to hold the tongue for tooth rasping as a child by the vet. Racking my brain & I am sure I only ever did this to my own animals, & don't recall any of them having any problems, so hopefully got away with it. EDT's & vets that I deal with these days seem to all use gags, but that's one piece of information that I won't forget in a hurry.
Thanks for posting.

 

[BeckyD]

Rather bizarrely Ronnie's shoulder was clicking when walking - physio discovered it was due to the muscle that connects to the hyoid process being in spasm. She did some gentle manipulation and freed the tension and Ronnie visibly relaxed and stopped clicking - for a while. I'd never heard of the hyoid until then and was baffled by it - so small and delicate.

 

[kerilli]

[ QUOTE ]
How easily damaged exactly? My horse spends 97% of her time in the stable waving her tongue around to the side of her mouth! Ahhh!

[/ QUOTE ]

i think if they're choosing to wave it around, or loll it out the side of their mouths, it's fine, they're not going to damage it themselves... it's just when some misguided idiot (that would be me) has been told it's acceptable to pull on it that the damage can be done...
VERY delicate apparently... read something online where they'd done autopsies and checked hyoid bones of 160 horses and a high percentage had damage...

 

[crackersluvrat]

OMG thanks for posting this, my old yard owner taught me to hold the tongue whilst I wormed, luckily I stopped doing it a couple years ago as people gave me odd looks and it seemed to be pointless anyway...hope I haven't done any damage to my poor horse :S

 

[PapaFrita]

Eeeeek, how scary!!

 

[Bossanova]

One of ours sticks his tongue out to the side when he's cross- he pushes it out quite far. Stupid beast!!

 

[Foxford]

Well, I certainly know about human anatomy! And a LOT of structures are connected to the hyoid bone, so the attachments can be fairly delicate.
Thanks for posting, hopefully it will make people more aware.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

does this relate to that old practise of tying a horse's tounge down?... I was told years by a firend who was having sj training from an 'expert' he latex bandaged the tounge down and around the lower jaw! I thought this sounded horrific, am i wrong? is this beneficial? surely this would go towards damaging the hyoid bones....

 

[Seahorse]

Oh Sh*t, I was also told to do this for worming and have been doing it for years, it was a very old school experienced lady that told me this too.

I had no idea it could cause damage either.

 

[kerilli]

[ QUOTE ]
does this relate to that old practise of tying a horse's tounge down?... I was told years by a firend who was having sj training from an 'expert' he latex bandaged the tounge down and around the lower jaw! I thought this sounded horrific, am i wrong? is this beneficial? surely this would go towards damaging the hyoid bones....

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, it would.
also, using the ear as a twitch can be detrimental too appara, it's all joined up in there somehow. (that trick i was shown... by an EDT.
i despair sometimes.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

it's crazy to think you could be doing damage due to some barmy old method. Tounge tying, twitching, hobbling all verging on the antiquated i think... there is definitly an need for applied force/pressure with horses some times but these crazy old methods are just so outdated.

Don't feel bad you didnt know any better..none of us did

 

[ArcticFox]

I think this is a good explanation of how the hyoid works and damage that can be caused.

http://esiforum.mywowbb.com/forum1/670.html

Sorry I meant to post this on the wormer thread - didn't mean to bring up an old thread!

 

[angelish]

I think this is a good explanation of how the hyoid works and damage that can be caused.

http://esiforum.mywowbb.com/forum1/670.html

Sorry I meant to post this on the wormer thread - didn't mean to bring up an old thread!

pleased you did ,i missed this first time around
i didn't know this either although i don't tend to grab the tongue to worm ,i have grabbed my horses tongue when he's chocked before so i could get my hand in to removed blockage won't be doing that again

 

[kerilli]

I'd forgotten I'd even written this. Shame someone else advocated grabbing horse's tongue on the other thread...

 

[star]

You're ok to hold the tongue gently but if you were to yank it out or the horse pulls back while you're holding and you dont let go then you could quite easily damage the hyoid bones - they are a tiny flimsy little set of 4 bones each held together by a little joint.

 

[3Beasties]

I had a chiro to my horse a few weeks ago who held her tongue out of both sides of her mouth to 'release' something. Had never seen it before and thought it was a bit weird. After having read this I am now My horse became nappy after her treatment, not sure if it's a coincidence or not.

How likely is it that damage has been caused? She said she wasn't pulling the tongue but just holding it whilst the horse did the work

 

[Honey08]

Never heard this, quite shocked. Something I was taught too. I wonder how you would find out if you had done any damage?

 

[MillionDollar]

I have never held a tongue out for anhything....thank gawd I haven't!

Interestingly we had to worm horses at college and were told to hold horses head up high, put syringe in and then massage throat so they swallow (always works as well).

 

[MillionDollar]

I had a chiro to my horse a few weeks ago who held her tongue out of both sides of her mouth to 'release' something. Had never seen it before and thought it was a bit weird. After having read this I am now My horse became nappy after her treatment, not sure if it's a coincidence or not.

How likely is it that damage has been caused? She said she wasn't pulling the tongue but just holding it whilst the horse did the work

Eeek! How is your horse now? I think if the horse is still nappy I would get it checked out tbh......and I would be phoning the chiro for an explanation.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Well Ive watched the vets hold it to the side when checking teeth, also how could it cause damage when your just holding it?? If the horse pulled away etc I could imagin it causing damage but Ive never had a horse pull away when I have had its tongue

Just curious that the vets do it, they arent pulling it out they are just taking hold of it and holding it out the way......

 

[3Beasties]

Eeek! How is your horse now? I think if the horse is still nappy I would get it checked out tbh......and I would be phoning the chiro for an explanation.

She's had a few weeks off since because of saddle issues, will see how she is at the weekend

I wish I'd stuck to a chiro that I know and trusted

 

[FfionWinnie]

The chiro told me to do this to release tension in my mare's neck

I didn't do it as I found it a bit icky...

She did do it tho and told me it was basically fool proof! I do know and trust her and now I am really

 

[unbalanced]

Eeek! I was shown to do that years ago to check teeth without a gag - by a vet from the RVC! Won't be doing that any more then