Hoof Abcess and Poultice Questions

[mollymurphy]

Molly has been lame for about a week now. This is the first time she's been lame in the 6 years we've had her. There is no sign of any heat or swelling anywhere, other than on the right side of the hoof. We assumed it was an abcess and have been poulticing. Our farrier cant come out til friday, but there was one on the yard today so we asked him to take her shoe off and see if he could find anything. Other than the heat, he couldnt.

Questions are:

(1) Would you assume an abcess / bruised sole too?

(2) How long can you poultice for? We're changing every 12 or so hours, but having been poulticed for over a week, her hoof and bulb of heal are very soft, white and smelly.

(3) Turn out or box-rest?? She's turned out at the mo, with one of those canvas poultice bags on.

(4) Would you give any bute? We havent as of yet.

(5) How long would you leave it before getting a vet out? We were planning on seeing what our farrier says on friday.

Many thanks for any help!

Lou. x

 

[UKa]

after all this time and if horse is lame I would call the vet asap ...

an abcess should be cut out by vet or farrier a poultice alone won't do the trick as far as I am aware ...

 

[AmyMay]

Depending on how lame the horse is I would have her out as much as possible - movement can help with the erruption of the pus.

A lot of horses are on/off lame for a few weeks - some just go hopping overnight.

I have to say we rarely have the vet if we suspect an abcess - the farrier, some bute and poulticing usually sort it.

How lame is the horse??

 

[mollymurphy]

She's not very lame, but it's noticeable. It's not stopping her from dragging us to the field and jogging!

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
She's not very lame, but it's noticeable. It's not stopping her from dragging us to the field and jogging!

[/ QUOTE ]
Keep her out then - and perhaps have a poultice on in the field - do you have an equiboot or similar?

 

[mollymurphy]

Yep, she's poulticed in the field. Doesnt have an equiboot, but is gaffa-taped and wearing one of those canvas poultice bags/boots.
Would you give her any bute?

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you give her any bute?

[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I wouldn't unless she really was getting terribly uncomfortable.

That has to be your call though.

 

[mollymurphy]

Okie doke, i'll leave her for now then. I just hope that it IS only an abcess.

Thank you!

 

[spaniel]

If you suspect an abcess then I think its a bit mean to wait till friday before getting it excavated. Call the vet and get the foot pared now rather than prolong the discomfort and give yourself a bigger abcess to deal with.

 

[Happytohack]

Our big horse is prone to abscesses - always in the same foot. He has one at the moment, the farrier has been and removed the shoe and excavated the abscess - this gives almost instant pain relief. I then hot poultice for a few days with animalintex and when there is only a little muck coming out, I then dry poultice until there is nothing coming out. I put a vetwrap on the poultice and then make him a "boot" out of duck tape, so he can be turned out in the field - the movement helps the pus to keep coming out and he is obviously much happier out with his friends. Once I am certain the abscess is completely drained, I flush the hole with warm salty water with a syringe and then plug the hole with iodine soaked cotton wool. The plug is removed every 12 hours and the hole reflushed. You must make sure the abscess is completely drained before plugging the hole. I personally don't give him any bute as he once the abscess is excavated by the farrier, he is in very little pain.

 

[LusoLover]

I think I'm right in saying that if it's abscess then bute won't touch it. I believe my vet told me years ago to give my old pony bute to help determine if it was laminitis or an abscess. If it improved then it was laminitis as the bute wouldn't help with an abscess. I could be talking rubbish though.

 

[carthorse]

I think if it was an abscess your horse would be extremely lame by now and not able to bear weight on the foot. An abscess is very painful.I would not give bute as you don't want to hide any pain. If the first farrier never found anything then I don't know if yours will ,or did he just have a token look..Hope its sorted soon.

 

[mollymurphy]

No, he didnt really look. Just took the shoe off and scraped the 1st layer away.

I cant think of anything else it could be? A bruised sole wouldnt have gone on for so long would it? But the lameness is staying constant. Need the vet out for vaccinations this week, so i'll have her checked then. Fingers crossed for nothing major!!

I've had to take the poultice off today and leave her in to let her foot dry up a bit. It's gone unbelievably soft and i'm scared her whole hoof will fall off!!! I cant even trot her up now because she's shoeless and will be footsore anyway (only the hardstanding outside the stables is ok - the rest of the farm is cobbled and stoney) Stress!!

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'm right in saying that if it's abscess then bute won't touch it.

[/ QUOTE ]
No that is not the case. The Bute is administered more for it's anti-inflamatory purposes, rather than pain relief, as the surrounding tissue can become inflamed due to the pressure of the pus in the foot (bit like a spot really).

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if it was an abscess your horse would be extremely lame by now and not able to bear weight on the foot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again not necessarily true. Horses can be on/off marginally lame when an abcess is first brewing. But, yes can go dramitally lame at some point - or immeidately.

That is why so many vets seem to never diagnose them.............

 

[puddicat]

The answer to your question is CALL YOUR VET. It is highly irresponsible of you to use bute without direction of the vet and it also totally irresponsible and wrong of AmyMay to advise you to.

It is clear from the thread that you don't know know what the condition is and neither does anybody else. The interesting thing about HHO is that threads are permanent so there is the distinct possibility that they can be used as evidence in a case of negligence, cruelty. That may sound unlikely but if you acted on AmyMay's advice and animal progressed to be in greater distress than it is now and subsequently you posted that. It is possible that a case be made that you would have acted irresponsibly and caused unnecessary suffering to your horse.

I becoming increasingly uneasy with posts on this forum that come very close to, and in some cases break the law. There are just a few people on this forum who hand out advice, probably under the misapprehension that they know what they are talikng about and are trying to help. BUT in fact they do not know and they are not helping. AmyMay is one of them.

The best advice you have received is from Spaniel who incidentally is genuinely very knowledgeable and could say 'what it might be and what to do' but she also has the sense to know it is inappropriate to do so. UKa also has posted the sort of advice that is well accpeted as best practice in the horse world.

The intersting thing about this forum is that the more people know the less they say. Truly knowledgable people know how complicated diagnosis and treatment selection is, it is people who know little that presume to be able to say what is wrong with a horse and what to do about it on the basis of a few scant details given on an internet forum.

 

[mollymurphy]

AmyMay was OFFERING advice, not FORCING me to take it!!! And she didnt tell me to give her bute - she actually said not to!

Last time a horse of ours had an abcess, the vet was a waste of time - the farrier was more help! Hence why i havent had the vet out as of yet. I'm hardly causing suffering - she's probably not even 1/10 lame! And she hasnt had ANY bute! Ever in her life!

 

[AmyMay]

Actually Puddicat, have never told her to use bute - and have only imparted information on how we deal with abcesses.

Mollymurphy is a clever girl, and knows when to call the vet, and when to simply observe......

As for cruelty and neglect - come on, I think you're being a little over-reactionary...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would you give her any bute?

[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I wouldn't unless she really was getting terribly uncomfortable.

That has to be your call though.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[mollymurphy]

Thank you Becky!

at being called 'clever'!! x

Anyhoo's, the vet IS coming out because the vaccinations are due, so that's fine now isnt it?!!!! More vet fees to add to our ever-increasing bill!

I have a feeling though that it's a high-up abcess because that's where the heat is, so can they even do anything about that?! It's too high to be dug out!

 

[puddicat]

AmyMay was OFFERING advice, not FORCING me to take it!!! And she didnt tell me to give her bute - she actually said not to!

Yes I agree I read that post of AmyMay's incorrectly. The fact remains that you should not give prescription medicines without the direction of a vet and your original question 4 indicates that you were prepared to do so.

It is not particularly relevant that the advice was offered (of course it wasn't forced) although the precise way in which the advice is given is relevant. What I have suggested is that there are some people who offer advice in a way that leaves them open to being implicated in legal action in the [albeit unlikely] event that a set of circumstances develop that would justify a welfare investigation.

 

[puddicat]

Actually Puddicat, have never told her to use bute - and have only imparted information on how we deal with abcesses.

Yes I agree. The general concerns I expressed are based your past 1000 posts. I acknowledge the terms used in welfare investigatons are a bit immotive, I guess it is the same as the definitions of 'actual bodily harm' which covers things which some might regard as insignificant. The original question that was asked when I started trawling back through this forum was 'could a case be made against HHO for allowing a forum to propagate incorrect and misleading information if there was evidence that, as a result, there was a possibility of a detrimental effect on horse welfare" As a side result, it turns out tht there are a small number of people who give rise to most of the posts that are, shall we say, legally 'dubious'. As I said, the unusual circumstance is that the evidence is a matter of record so there is no dispute about who said what and when.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think if it was an abscess your horse would be extremely lame by now and not able to bear weight on the foot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again not necessarily true. Horses can be on/off marginally lame when an abcess is first brewing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just what I was going to say; PF once had an abscess that kept her about 2/10ths lame for about a week (despite vet coming to open up her hoof) X-rays revealed pus waaay up against the wall of the hoof and it had also got into her pedal bone so they had to dig a great chunk out and then put a metal plate on. Got some amazing x-rays.

 

[zigzag]

Not all horses are lame with abcesses, my palomino Sunbeam never is, he had an abscess last week which farrier found when he came to shoe, quite a large one but he had never gone lame, think it depends on the horse

 

[henryhorn]

Puddicat I am somewhat concerned that you bother to read someone's last 1000 posts? Did I read that correctly? Did you really check all those posts?
I think sadly you have lost the spirit of the forum here, no-one is saying "Follow my advice to the letter" more a question of various people offer suggestions and solutions and it's then up to the person concerned which if any suggestion they follow.
We all have different ways of doing things, we had a horse with a lameness last week and felt it was an abcess. The farrier was called, he searched as far as he could, nothing appeared but as his tendon was also up we talked with the vet on the phone and decided to give bute for pain relief and a course of anti biotics as the tendon swelling was we judged due to the foot problem.
Two days later it appeared out of the coronary band, obviously too high up for the farrier to access without major cutting and the horse is now sound.
I am not a fan of poulticing if the problem can't be seen by the farrier as sometimes it's best to let things happen on their own.
I agree if a horse is in pain the first course of action should be get an expert, but perhaps you could tone down the way you respond to people, it really is pretty harsh in this post as an example.
It's almost as if you feel you are H and H's self appointed guardian of what's legally allowed, are you a solicitor or something?
The whole point of these forums is that we can talk freely re suggestions, and I for one would be very sad if people weren't able to have their say, whether it's right or wrong in anyone's eyes.
Perhaps you could read what you posted again, do you think you sound friendly or more judgemental.....

 

[Tia]

I am pleased you wrote this HH and I fully agree with you. Someone who goes out of their way to read 1,000 posts is, to me anyway, showing stalker tendencies.

Puddicat; you seem to have a problem with a lot of people on here, me being one of them. I think your criticism of Amymay was unwarranted, particularly as you misread her posts on this thread.

I doubt most people on here are particularly bothered about the legalities of what they write, perhaps they should be, however they are grown people who can make their own choices.

I always find you entertaining mind you, and I think you are valuable to this forum, if only for your skills at copying and pasting....

I await your rebuke because I know fine well that it will be forthcoming.

Just out of interest; do you actually have a horse or ride?

 

[mollymurphy]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact remains that you should not give prescription medicines without the direction of a vet and your original question 4 indicates that you were prepared to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a bute hoarder you know! I dont stock bute at the farm for use whenever i feel like it! I just asked if other people bute their horses when they have abscesses. If i had then decided to give Molly some bute, i would have had to get it from my vet...who obviously wouldnt have just handed it to me without at least questioning what it was for (probably would have needed to come out and see her).

When Mo had an abscess, we had the vet out 3 times. It was too high for him to do anything with, and in the end it sorted itselft out. She was SIGNIFICANTLY lame, but was never given bute at any point. So the vet call-outs and exams turned out to be a waste of money. I felt mean not giving her any pain relief, but at the same time we needed to keep an eye on whether or not she was improving. I just wondered if other people on here do the same thing. We all know how different people will treat different things in different ways. It's nice to hear how other people (more experienced than myself) and their vets deal with their horses' problems.

As other peoples' replies show - there is a massive variation of the symptoms and treatment of abscesses. Thank you all for your replies.

 

[_jetset_]

As you know, I recently became the absolute Pro when it comes to abscesses when Grace had one and missed the AFs at Myerscough

I used a warm poultice for just over a week (as recommended by my vet) which comprised of a piece of animal lintex soaked in boiling water, a nappy, covered in VetWrap then silver tape

I did keep her in on box rest initially for the first 2 days then vet recommended me trying to get her out with the poultice on because it would encourage it to come out from the soul through the movement.

I then dry poulticed her for a further 3 days, then the farrier came to put her shoe back on... she was not 'sound' until the Wednesday (shoe went on Tues) and until this point has still been pretty lame on the foot due to the abscess, then the softness of the foot and lack of shoe.

I did not give her bute because I hoped to compete her in the AFs so vet said we wouldn't, but had she not been trying to get right for the AFs he would have given her bute for this.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
The general concerns I expressed are based your past 1000 posts.

[/ QUOTE ]
How weird that you would read my last 1000 posts.........

Have no idea what the rest of your post meant sorry......

But obviously we disagree I guess.

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm not a bute hoarder you know!

[/ QUOTE ]

I am!!!!!!

and Sedalin...and AB's...and syringes/needles.......


i see no problem with that

 

[mollymurphy]

Oh, no problem with it! I just dont have any!!