Hoof balance assessment please
- Thread starter Marigold4
- Start date
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I am a hobby trimmer, not a professional, but yes, they do look long toe'd and under run to me.
They look like a pasture trim rather than a functional working trim.
Mine would be angled at the toe, so bevelled. The angle of the bevel is all important, as it helps to keep the white line tight.
Sole shots and a 3/4 shot would also be useful.
Mine had long toes, but by bringing the toe back, initially twice weekly, they are now a lot stronger a shape.
They look like a pasture trim rather than a functional working trim.
Mine would be angled at the toe, so bevelled. The angle of the bevel is all important, as it helps to keep the white line tight.
Sole shots and a 3/4 shot would also be useful.
Mine had long toes, but by bringing the toe back, initially twice weekly, they are now a lot stronger a shape.
Trouper
Well-Known Member
I'm certainly no expert but I would be a bit concerned about the heel area, too and the toe seems to be - from this angle - a tad overlong. Bit difficult to assess total balance without seeing how the whole horse stands?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Photos can be misrepresentative, but it looks as if the right one is much worse than the left, look at the drop in the hair line at the back. For some reason, that foot is not working as hard as the other and has a distinct lack of digital cushion. Both very look like the quarters are to long and pushing up the hair line, too. You're right to be concerned.
.
.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Spot on! Slight positive flexion on right hind, disappears after work, sore sacroiliac and muscles to right of it.
Can you explain "quarters too long" please - I'm not too good on hoof trimming technology.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Thank you for commenting - wish I knew how to trim toes back myself so I could sort this myself.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Here is photo taken this winter
Attachments
Regandal
Well-Known Member
Do you have hoof xrays? Good images, taken from the side, can inform the farrier/trimmer as to how much they can safely bring the toe back. Not too expensive either.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I'm not sure what help x rays are to trimming toe length. You can't come back further than the white line, and the bones are nowhere near that.
It's normal for trimmers to bevel away anything in front of the white line across a crescent at the toe. Self trimming horses will normally do that.
It's normal for trimmers to bevel away anything in front of the white line across a crescent at the toe. Self trimming horses will normally do that.
Last edited:
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
The quarters are the piece of hoof wall between the toe and the heel.
If this area is too long, it will bend the hair line at the coronet upwards, which looks like it is happening on both those photos.
.
Last edited:
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
OK, so the left fore is working harder in compensation for the right hind and is the better foot of the two front ones. That doesn't completely explain why the right fore is not working hard enough to build the heel properly. Is there any thrush in that foot?
Roxylola
Well-Known Member
Can't help with feet, but I think they're hinds - tail in shot just about
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Blimey, missed that!
Marigold, for hind feet they are WAY too long in the toe and the wrong angle and I would suspect negative pedal bone angle on the right one, which you would need x rays to confirm. Building heel on the back is less straightforward than on the front and will be very dependent on back end soundness.
.
Last edited:
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Well that will explain your canter issues in your other thread then.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I could cry! Why cant professionally trained people do a proper job. How come WE can see a problem but professionals cant. Honestly I dont know who to turn to fix this now. Why is foot balance so difficult to achieve. Aaaaaaah!
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I know I sound like a broken record, but Fiona Varian is a magician with feet. I only risked buying Rigsby because I knew she would be able to help. She will also show you how to maintain between trims.
https://www.fluidmovements.co.uk
It is worth having a full body treatment as well as feet, as it is all connected.
Last edited:
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I was going to say it might be a bit chicken/egg re. cause/effect given your canter issues.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Well they definitely aren’t as bad as my horses ??
Here is his injured leg, is say this hoof is actually better than the uninjured one.
what’s your plan? Mines being turned away and I intend to have frequent but small trims. We’d have like to take more off the toe but you can only do so much. He does not have a NPA as confirmed by x ray but they are very “flat”.
Here is his injured leg, is say this hoof is actually better than the uninjured one.what’s your plan? Mines being turned away and I intend to have frequent but small trims. We’d have like to take more off the toe but you can only do so much. He does not have a NPA as confirmed by x ray but they are very “flat”.
Regandal
Well-Known Member
I had foot xrays done as vet was adamant that toes should come back, he ended up having a ‘remedial’ trim by a very good trimmer. Not advisable for DIY trimming.
Edited to add, I then took a tiny smidgen off every couple of days to ‘push’ the toe back.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the two things were connected so I'm going to work on how to fix both issues. But how to find a good trimmer, I just don't know.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Well they definitely aren’t as bad as my horses ??
what’s your plan? Mines being turned away and I intend to have frequent but small trims. We’d have like to take more off the toe but you can only do so much. He does not have a NPA as confirmed by x ray but they are very “flat”.
View attachment 75105
Michen
Well-Known Member
Can’t see what you wrote weirdly just blank quote x
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
I guess my plan is to find someone who knows what they are doing with feet. I changed from a trimmer to a farrier because he let the toes grow too long, but farrier has made the worse! Trimmer said toes NOT too long and heels NOT underrun, farrier said they were when he saw photos but has not addressed the issues, despite me bringing it up when he's here. I'm really not sure how to go about finding someone else who will be any better.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Because I have crap internet that goes down when I'm replying and wipes everything!
Michen
Well-Known Member
Self trimming? More roadwork?
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Agree with others, hinds for under-run heels and long toes are quite the headache to resolve. Fronts are much easier!
I have 1 horse prone to them. There are always quarters growing long in the mix with the pathology. My horse has really large rear frogs, cushion.
They can come straight. Similar approach to the fronts - keep the toe back, and despite the heels being low, the cells grow under the horse, effectively bending and continue growing ‘bent’ so the heels, despite being/looking short, also need trimming the excess ‘bent’ wall to create a flat landing plane at the heel, otherwise it continues growing in that shape, aswell as quarters needing attention.
The heels with this pathology look like they dont grow the same as rest of the hoof, but they do, they just grow distorted - the same heigh of hoof wall is there, its just bent, rolling under.
Worth getting another trimmer as recommended further up thread to help you. Its trickier than front toe long just needing toe rasping. It can come right and your horse will feel much better for it and perform better.
I had 2 farriers while i wasnt available who didnt do any remedial work when they should have, just pasture trim 5 minute rasp job…’feet are fine’….go with people who come highly recommended.
I have 1 horse prone to them. There are always quarters growing long in the mix with the pathology. My horse has really large rear frogs, cushion.
They can come straight. Similar approach to the fronts - keep the toe back, and despite the heels being low, the cells grow under the horse, effectively bending and continue growing ‘bent’ so the heels, despite being/looking short, also need trimming the excess ‘bent’ wall to create a flat landing plane at the heel, otherwise it continues growing in that shape, aswell as quarters needing attention.
The heels with this pathology look like they dont grow the same as rest of the hoof, but they do, they just grow distorted - the same heigh of hoof wall is there, its just bent, rolling under.
Worth getting another trimmer as recommended further up thread to help you. Its trickier than front toe long just needing toe rasping. It can come right and your horse will feel much better for it and perform better.
I had 2 farriers while i wasnt available who didnt do any remedial work when they should have, just pasture trim 5 minute rasp job…’feet are fine’….go with people who come highly recommended.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Bear in mind, 1 trim wont magically sort this - it’ll take a few trims and allowing the whole hoof to regrow to correct angles - so the farrier who could see the under-run heels and agreed its an issue, cant correct it in just 1 trim. Its a case of taking the distorted pressures off the wall in key places over several trims and watching how the hoof re-grows, then re-adjusting trim etc….its a process.
Not sure if your farrier just did the 1 trim or what you expectations were, so just clarifying the angles take some time to grow better, and takes a few trims. Dont allow long between trims, 4 wks max.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
where are you? there is an excellent farrier in the SW, Mark Johnson further up country and the one Red recommended. No doubt there are more, we just need to find them. There is one group of trimmers who have a passion for leaving toes long so that doesn't surprise me.
As for a new trimmer/farrier you now know what is wrong with the feet. If you have someone to look at them you know what they should be saying and that they should come up with a plan to correct the feet. It would be reasonable for them to suggest x rays and to trim to the x rays. It will be a slow job and I would guess that you would have to work with them rasping the toe back every week. Anyone who says 2 trims and problem sorted probably hasn't got it.
You would expect them to trim at least monthly and preferably more often for the first few trims.
find some possible trimmers, get a good set of pics and see what they have to say. It is a case of interviewing the trimmers and weeding out the ones who will not start correcting the problem.
Obviously you will then have to move onto the body workers.
barefoot and trimmers have been going now for nearly 20 years and I cannot believe in that time we have a trimmer who didn't recognise long toe/low heel, a farrier who cannot address the issue and a lot of owners who perfectly understand what they are looking at.
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
Yes, vet came yesterday
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
IIRC it was an EPA qualified barefoot trimmer who originally trimmed the horse and under whose care the horse initially presented with long toes.
I would get x rays.
I would get x rays.