Horse and Hound, Above the Law ?

The law about forums and libel was changed about 3 months ago - people can state now if they have a bad service on an open forum without repercussion as the person/company is perfectly able to publicly defend themselves...
 
Fides said:
The law about forums and libel was changed about 3 months ago - people can state now if they have a bad service on an open forum without repercussion as the person/company is perfectly able to publicly defend themselves...
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However, it would appear from reading the other thread, they are trying to defend the indefencable :)
 
I just can't believe anyone involved with the business would drag all this up again online when it had all finally died down and gone quiet! Unless they work on the theory that any publicity is good publicity!
 
I'd never even heard of this company until this thread appeared. I wonder just how many others on H&H had never heard of it ... but we do now! I did see the thread with the name of this company in the title but I hadn't read it, so had no idea there were problems, but thanks to this new thread OP, you've brought loads of new attention to your company.
 
Spring Feather said:
I'd never even heard of this company until this thread appeared. I wonder just how many others on H&H had never heard of it ... but we do now! I did see the thread with the name of this company in the title but I hadn't read it, so had no idea there were problems, but thanks to this new thread OP, you've brought loads of new attention to your company.
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ditto
 
Spring Feather said:
I'd never even heard of this company until this thread appeared. I wonder just how many others on H&H had never heard of it ... but we do now! I did see the thread with the name of this company in the title but I hadn't read it, so had no idea there were problems, but thanks to this new thread OP, you've brought loads of new attention to your company.
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I had heard of them but never dealt with them. Not sure i would now. Same as with the other long winded thread, it gave them very little respect from me.
 
Elsiecat said:
Ah, yes, of course. This is the stamp of every under 25 across the land. Tsk tsk.
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Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. 😉
 
Really, Serephin? I think you perhaps need to be more careful who you employ. That is a shame. I have no doubt that in many situations what you say is true, but in many it is not and I think you've just had bad luck!
 
Elsiecat said:
Really, Serephin? I think you perhaps need to be more careful who you employ. That is a shame. I have no doubt that in many situations what you say is true, but in many it is not and I think you've just had bad luck!
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Unfortunately no matter how careful you are when employing someone, it can turn out badly despite best efforts. Finding decent reliable staff is one of the most challenging parts of running a business. Yes, probably bad luck, but has made us very retiscent to take the risk if we needed to employ more staff.
 
Serephin said:
Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. ��
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While there is an element to what you say (certainly work ethos appears to be dwindling), I think age is only a factor because you hear about the failing companies, and then the age of the owners is highlighted and then used as a reason.
 
Serephin said:
Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. 😉
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I have heard similar complaints from so many employers over the last 20yrs. There is more to the high youth unemployment than meets the eye.
 
cobgoblin said:
I have heard similar complaints from so many employers over the last 20yrs. There is more to the high youth unemployment than meets the eye.
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Yes there is ,school and parents are not preparing some for the reality of what working means .
I won't bore you with the details of why I have given up I go for older every time .
 
Tentatively replying to this thread as I was involved in the other thread but my comment has now been deleted. Really surprised to see this rear it's ugly head again!

I will reserve in commenting on this specific company for fear of being sued! However, I really cannot see the problem in one voicing an honest and factual account of their experiences, surely that is what a public forum is for? I think the horse community as a whole is being underestimated, I may of had my comment deleted on a forum however I have talked to friends, clients, farrier, physio etc (again factual information and not slanderous), unfortunately a bad reputation can and will travel much faster than a good one. It seems to me that efforts are being placed in the wrong areas and in pointing the finger at customers rather than address the actual problem has upset a lot of people, these people have turned to a public forum to find anyone having the same experiences.

As others have said, unfortunately the age of the customer is always right is dying a death!
 
Seems pretty obvious that out of everyone who's posted on the thread, only the OP would be in favour of gagging honest reviews, and clearly has a vested interest in hoping that people would agree.

All it's done is get people's backs up. I won't have anyone suggest that I shouldn't do something - I'm an adult. Try and bring the law into it, and it will only make me more determined to do what I wanted - within the law, which I will immediately go and read up on.

As it is, I have taken from this and the schwmae thread that both business owners have plenty of free time in which to make misguided comments on a forum instead of resolving things for their customers. Not the committed business person that I want to buy from.

I'm another that's gone back to buying from a shop locally, because you can't beat the service and buying online is fraught with dangers of losing money and vast delays.
 
It is not libel to give ones personal opinion on something, only to state as fact something that is untrue.
By all means go to court it will open up a good debate in the much wider public arena and the truth will out ;-)
 
Darremi said:
This is not entirely true. The burden of proof is actually on the defendant to prove that the statements were true.

This is the defence of "veritas".
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But according to the recent amendments in the law, as the person/company has the opportunity to offer a counter argument on a public forum, no legal argument can be made.

The fact that the OP has gone from being one who seemed to take criticism well to be one 'having a rant' had totally changed my opinion on them.

OP - after the previous thread I had reached the decision that once you had sorted the 'issues' out u would by from you as you offer a good range and seemed really reasonable. Now however I wouldn't buy anything from you out of principle.

OP - you have had a lesson in what it is like in the 'real world' - learn from your mistakes and stop blaming it on everyone else - you are the one giving a poor service. Deal with it!
 
SadKen said:
As it is, I have taken from this and the schwmae thread that both business owners have plenty of free time in which to make misguided comments on a forum instead of resolving things for their customers. Not the committed business person that I want to buy from.
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very true
 
This is a complicated area of law and I highly recommend you don 't roll the dice of issuing legal proceedings without a better understanding of the law. In law you can be liable for H&H costs if you are not right. I haven't seen the comment but typically UGC can be defended by "honest/ fair comment" which is where someone is stating their own personal view on facts that appear (but don't necessarly need) to be true. Their opinion may not be palatable but it may be their opinion rather than an indefensible allegation that appears to be factual which is in fact untrue and. It can be very damaging to have defamatory allegations against you but tread very carefully! I hope this helps somewhat!
 
Serephin said:
Its true though isn't it. Having employed youngsters before I would never again as IMO they think most tasks are beneath them and that they know better than others that are far more experienced.

It seems that young business owners are falling foul of their own egos. As such in this case and the Schwmae debacle before. Instead of posessing the temerity to take complaints and criticism on the chin and sort it out they start stamping their feet and attacking. Probably something to do with 'respekt' that they think is their god given right despite not having earned it. 😉
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I find this a tad upsetting. I'm 20 years old and certainty don't think stuff is beneath me, that I know better than experienced people and I like to think I don't have an over-inflated ego just because I am under 25. If I ran a business I would certainty not act in the way this poster has and I know just as many, if not more, older people who can be ignorant and rude as younger people. I know this has nothing to do with the original question but a really dislike the attitude that many people have towards young people, that we are all rude, lazy and unaware of the real world. Myself and many of my friends my age work very hard for what we have, it's not a good time to be a young person so please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Back on the post topic.... I completely agree with what others have said, will be avoiding this company now. Definitely not the way to make people buy from your company.
 
As well as showing the defaming comments to be untrue you have to show 'a loss' because of defamation - in the case of a business this has to
Be financial as businesses can't have physical or psychological loss... This is incredibly - dare I say it - nearly impossible to show...
 
Bear9 said:
I know this has nothing to do with the original question but a really dislike the attitude that many people have towards young people, that we are all rude, lazy and unaware of the real world. Myself and many of my friends my age work very hard for what we have, it's not a good time to be a young person so please don't tar us all with the same brush.
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I agree, it is a very unfortunate time to be a youngster setting out in the world today. You're not a rarity by any means, there are plenty youngsters who work as hard and are respectful of the job they do, unfortunately when you run a small business and you find some who aren't, it really does put you off giving others a chance; once bitten and all that.
 
Honestly, this comment upset me a little bit. I'm a young person, not going to state how young, but I have an illness known as Asperger's Syndrome which makes it extremely hard for me to understand emotion and makes me somewhat 'anti-social'. I however volunteer/am on placement at my local riding school and am there from 8am til half past 5 at night. Part of me being there is being polite to people, offering them drinks, making sure they are happy etc. In my opinion, if you aren't going to be well mannered then don't get a job working with people - go and get one where you can work from home without having to socialise with the rest of us. I think I would be a brilliant asset for any company; I'm very polite with many people even if it involves me biting my tongue, smiling politely and nodding. Many other young people I work with are extremely polite and always willing to help so I assume you've just had bad luck but please don't all label us. We aren't all that bad, promise haha.
Any who, I've sat and read this thread and in all honesty, it baffles me why this has been dragged back up by the original poster - whether or not it is the same person as before is a different matter. To me a reputation is earned no matter if it's good or bad. I love Robinsons for example, always prompt service and always happy to help. I would always recommend them. I'm off now to place an order with the Hope Valley Saddlery because of it's glowing rep on this thread. Reputation is key for any business. In all honesty, I wouldn't have posted this threat if I were the OP. All it's doing is bringing up things that were laid to rest a long time ago.
You can't stop people expressing their opinion of businesses. At the end of the day, 99% of the time these people are being honest about their experiences and are trying to protect other people from this happening to them. The best way that a company can rectify mistakes is not by being rude or impolite, but by offering a sincere apology, ensuring this won't happen again and making sure that the customer walks away happily. I honestly won't be buying from this company now simply because of the way they have handled this. I know if I was in any way rude to any customer at our yard I would be in the dog house and rightly so.
 
I also think as others have said, really. The op is arrogant and ignorant and it may be a reflection of immaturity/age. While I think it sounds ageist, being honest, I would rather hire an older person, with bills to pay and experience under their belt. If youngsters think its hard for them, perhaps look at the injustice associated with elderly people trying to find a job to pay the gas bill...its hard for everyone. My Dad is a self employed workaholic, aged 63, sometimes I've seen him eat mash and cheese for weeks to pay the bills (and he lives in a caravan for months on end so he can work). He would never rip anyone off, promise to do a job, take the money and not deliver.
As titillating as this thread has been, lol, I wont be joining in again. The irrationality of op alone, actually makes me feel quite sorry for her. I don't want to kick while she is down...Imagine being deluded enough to think this thread could help...tis very sad. I doubt the business will grow from this, and I doubt anyone is thick skinned enough for it to not chafe at the conscience.
If you were my daughter, I wouldnt let you near this site, as people aren't laughing with you...you will only get negative energy, and thats not good for anyone, especially for you at this very bad time. My thoughts are with you.
 
Very interesting thread. Many fantastic responses that confirm just how useful this forum is. As a new horse owner, I have found this a great place to find out about products and hear about companies. I actually ordered from a company based on how well they had responded to a poor review on this - and I got a fantastic service.

For companies this is an amazing way to tap into a collective of potential customers - but only if you listen and respond constructively. It is not the fault of the forum (users or host) if companies fail to do this and suffer as a result.

OP please, please, please heed the advice of so many others about legal action. I deal with this as part of my job - nobody really wins. Invest the money in your development - learn how to keep your customers happy and learn how to respond to feedback. If you aren't prepared to change how you react, then perhaps you need a change in career. Customer service roles aren't for everyone.

Long may the exchange of honest experiences (good and bad) live on this forum.
 
McFluff said:
Very interesting thread. Many fantastic responses that confirm just how useful this forum is. As a new horse owner, I have found this a great place to find out about products and hear about companies. I actually ordered from a company based on how well they had responded to a poor review on this - and I got a fantastic service.

For companies this is an amazing way to tap into a collective of potential customers - but only if you listen and respond constructively. It is not the fault of the forum (users or host) if companies fail to do this and suffer as a result.

OP please, please, please heed the advice of so many others about legal action. I deal with this as part of my job - nobody really wins. Invest the money in your development - learn how to keep your customers happy and learn how to respond to feedback. If you aren't prepared to change how you react, then perhaps you need a change in career. Customer service roles aren't for everyone.

Long may the exchange of honest experiences (good and bad) live on this forum.
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This has to be one of the best first posts ever!

Welcome to the forum McFluff :)
 
McFluff said:
Very interesting thread. Many fantastic responses that confirm just how useful this forum is. As a new horse owner, I have found this a great place to find out about products and hear about companies. I actually ordered from a company based on how well they had responded to a poor review on this - and I got a fantastic service.

For companies this is an amazing way to tap into a collective of potential customers - but only if you listen and respond constructively. It is not the fault of the forum (users or host) if companies fail to do this and suffer as a result.

OP please, please, please heed the advice of so many others about legal action. I deal with this as part of my job - nobody really wins. Invest the money in your development - learn how to keep your customers happy and learn how to respond to feedback. If you aren't prepared to change how you react, then perhaps you need a change in career. Customer service roles aren't for everyone.

Long may the exchange of honest experiences (good and bad) live on this forum.
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_GG_ said:
This has to be one of the best first posts ever!

Welcome to the forum McFluff :)
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Fully agree with GG.
Welcome McFluff
 
LaMooch said:
Fully agree with GG.
Welcome McFluff
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Thank you both so much for the welcome.

I've been a 'lurker' for some time - this thread has so many similarities to the day job - so felt the need to take the plunge and speak up for what is a fantastic resource!
 
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