Horse attacking people - biting, dragging while biting and attempting to kick. HELP!

[HannahKate98]

They

Excuse me for butting in here. Please do not do that.

Please leave your dogs to eat in peace and teach your children to do the same.

Bothering a dog when it is eating could create a resource guarding problem.

are working dogs and were on guard dog training too for 16 weeks from the time they were pups. All done under the advice and in the beginning the supervision of a team of 3 trainers

 

[HannahKate98]

I appreciate you are time precious with the horses but I am as old fashioned as they come and have never tormented animals while they eat.

I wouldn’t consider being in a stall to replenish haynets/water as tormenting - our definitions must differ greatly.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Tie horse up out of the way with a net or pop him into a different stable while you do jobs. Or make sure that his stable is fully ready before bringing him in. Hardly rocket science.

 

[skinnydipper]

They

are working dogs and were on guard dog training too for 16 weeks from the time they were pups. All done under the advice and in the beginning the supervision of a team of 3 trainers

It doesn't matter whether they are working dogs or lap dogs. Let your dogs eat in peace.

 

[Clodagh]

I wouldn’t consider being in a stall to replenish haynets/water as tormenting - our definitions must differ greatly.

I was replying to you petting the dogs. I thought you also changed rugs and cleaned scabs on the horses, sorry, my mistake.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I wouldn’t consider being in a stall to replenish haynets/water as tormenting - our definitions must differ greatly.

It doesn't really matter what you consider it to be. If the horse considers it to be tormenting, you are going to get hurt.
As for dogs; ours are taught from being pups that we can touch/move their food because you never know when you might need to but I wouldn't expect to walk up to a new adult dog and fiddle with its dish at meal- times.

 

[Palindrome]

I expect my horses to tolerate being handled when eating, including rugging or petting.
The dog is the same, if I need to move her bowl or if I am pouring food she has to wait.

I have had some horses choke while eating hard feed (even soaked or with chaff) so would never leave them unattended and every minute counts really so if they need a rug, they get it while they are eating.

 

[HannahKate98]

Tie horse up out of the way with a net or pop him into a different stable while you do jobs. Or make sure that his stable is fully ready before bringing him in. Hardly rocket science.

Never once said it was, 12 horses 12 stalls can’t be moving them when paddocks are water logged with zero stable free to put him. Also, if he violently attacks humans in a 5 acre pasture the behaviour needs sorting. We don’t all have the ideal set up and hours of spare time a day particularly not as I said with a very unwell (long term) two year old son sorry if I’m coming across thick by not grasping the ‘not rocket science’ narrative. But since when was a horse with aggressive tendencies towards humans okay?! Has the horse world gone mad? Do we make excuses for this nonsense now! He could have killed someone.

 

[HannahKate98]

It doesn't really matter what you consider it to be. If the horse considers it to be tormenting, you are going to get hurt.
As for dogs; ours are taught from being pups that we can touch/move their food because you never know when you might need to but I wouldn't expect to walk up to a new adult dog and fiddle with its dish at meal- times.

This is the point. He’s not a new adult horse. I’ve had him a year, the behaviour started less than a week ago. It was not exhibited during racing as I have managed to speak to staff on the yard he was at today. I’ve had him and handled him daily from June other than the 3 weeks I was in the States but that was back in 2023

 

[HannahKate98]

I was replying to you petting the dogs. I thought you also changed rugs and cleaned scabs on the horses, sorry, my mistake.

Never while eating, that was always done out of his stall on a concrete pad so he wouldn’t associate his pasture/arena/stall with the discomfort. No dealing with scabs has been done in 2024 as the issue of the rain scald was resolved at the tail end of 2023. But he seems to have had sensitive skin and exhibiting signs of sensitivity similar to that of the rain scald battle again the past few days

 

[HannahKate98]

It doesn't matter whether they are working dogs or lap dogs. Let your dogs eat in peace.

They do now but they know if we are near they don’t dare growl or become possessive as on occasion dogs need to be moved during feeding (they don’t rush their feed or can take an hour plus for one in particular to eat). Aggressive/possessive behaviour is not tolerated from any animal ever when exhibited towards a human. Not a chance that would stand. And I’m not happy allowing it. The rate of dog attacks is ever increasing mine are trained professionally and that is maintained with regular sessions with trainers and consistency at home. My dogs are like lambs the sweetest dogs imaginable. My horses too until this past week when one of 12 has had a sudden switch in behaviour.

 

[skinnydipper]

They do now but they know if we are near they don’t dare growl or become possessive as on occasion dogs need to be moved during feeding (they don’t rush their feed or can take an hour plus for one in particular to eat). Aggressive/possessive behaviour is not tolerated from any animal ever when exhibited towards a human. Not a chance that would stand. And I’m not happy allowing it. The rate of dog attacks is ever increasing mine are trained professionally and that is maintained with regular sessions with trainers and consistency at home. My dogs are like lambs the sweetest dogs imaginable. My horses too until this past week when one of 12 has had a sudden switch in behaviour.

Dear God, it gets worse. What an awful relationship you have with your animals, I feel sorry for them.

I'm not going to ask how your dogs have been 'professionally' trained, I can guess, and the fact they need to go back for repeat 'training' says it all.

You won't understand this but it is possible to train a dog without force, fear or intimidation.

What you do need is a relationship built on trust, you don't need to bully a dog into submission. It's not a battle of wills, it's a partnership.

I have had many dogs from various backgrounds and breeds, JRT to very large livestock guardian. I had 9 at one time living together in peace and harmony in the house, all trained with kindness (by me). None ever growled or threatened me or each other. Any problems with aggressive behaviour you have brought on yourself.


For those at the back - it is totally unnecessary to interfere with a dog or its food to prove that you can.

 

[ycbm]

I expect my horses to tolerate being handled when eating, including rugging or petting.
The dog is the same, if I need to move her bowl or if I am pouring food she has to wait.

Me too. I really don't know why the OP is getting such stick. She has one horse out of several which is exhibiting NEW dangerous behaviours. Has anyone got any constructive suggestions other than the obvious of ulcers?
.

 

[Peglo]

One of mine doesn’t want to be fiddled with whilst eating her bucket feed so I leave her to it and do other jobs and wait until she’s finished. I need to give myself extra time to rug after she’s eaten but it hardly hurts to go out a couple of minutes early so she can enjoy her feed. Im not going to force the issue for my own convenience.

I really hope you get to the bottom of his behaviour OP. What a scary situation.

 

[HannahKate98]

Dear God, it gets worse. What an awful relationship you have with your animals, I feel sorry for them.

I'm not going to ask how your dogs have been 'professionally' trained, I can guess, and the fact they need to go back for repeat 'training' says it all.

You won't understand this but it is possible to train a dog without force, fear or intimidation.

What you do need is a relationship built on trust, you don't need to bully a dog into submission. It's not a battle of wills, it's a partnership.

I have had many dogs from various backgrounds and breeds, JRT to very large livestock guardian. I had 9 at one time living together in peace and harmony in the house, all trained with kindness (by me). None ever growled or threatened me or each other. Any problems with aggressive behaviour you have brought on yourself.


For those at the back - it is totally unnecessary to interfere with a dog or its food to prove that you can.

There is zero force they were trained with R+ clicker and high value treating, hence the whole - THEY CANNOT BE POSSESSIVE/AGGRESSIVE over feeding. Repeat training is just to ensure neither is or the dogs are developing bad habits which is actually completely normal and is the same as fully fledge riders still having lessons - habits develop over time or are you professing to be perfect at everything?

I asked for advice for a NEW behaviour no change to routine prompted it, others are all fine or is my horsemanship that bad that only one of 12 horses is showing signs of issues - hmmmmm.

We successfully bred horses for therapy ponies for years, all of which had to be great to handle for the obvious, they were therapy ponies for extremely vulnerable individuals. So we are talking 40+ horses from foal to fully mature and this is the ONLY AGGRESSIVE EXPERIENCE WE’VE EVER HAD.

Please refrain from posting if there is absolutely nothing constructive to your post, it’s a waste of everybody’s effort including your own.

 

[j1ffy]

Dear God, it gets worse. What an awful relationship you have with your animals, I feel sorry for them.

I'm not going to ask how your dogs have been 'professionally' trained, I can guess, and the fact they need to go back for repeat 'training' says it all.

You won't understand this but it is possible to train a dog without force, fear or intimidation.

What you do need is a relationship built on trust, you don't need to bully a dog into submission. It's not a battle of wills, it's a partnership.

I have had many dogs from various backgrounds and breeds, JRT to very large livestock guardian. I had 9 at one time living together in peace and harmony in the house, all trained with kindness (by me). None ever growled or threatened me or each other. Any problems with aggressive behaviour you have brought on yourself.


For those at the back - it is totally unnecessary to interfere with a dog or its food to prove that you can.

Sorry OP for these comments - I have no idea why this poster thinks you are forceful with your animals. Personally I think you come across as a responsible owner of horses and dogs who has professional support when needed and are concerned because one of your well-cared for animals is suddenly aggressive!

I’m afraid I have no suggestions, it sounds like a fair amount of time has passed since the rainscald treatment so it may be a red herring. I hope the vet visit turns up something simple and that you can keep yourself (and others) safe in the meantime.

 

[skinnydipper]

There is zero force they were trained with R+ clicker and high value treating, hence the whole - THEY CANNOT BE POSSESSIVE/AGGRESSIVE over feeding. Repeat training is just to ensure neither is or the dogs are developing bad habits which is actually completely normal and is the same as fully fledge riders still having lessons - habits develop over time or are you professing to be perfect at everything?

I asked for advice for a NEW behaviour no change to routine prompted it, others are all fine or is my horsemanship that bad that only one of 12 horses is showing signs of issues - hmmmmm.

We successfully bred horses for therapy ponies for years, all of which had to be great to handle for the obvious, they were therapy ponies for extremely vulnerable individuals. So we are talking 40+ horses from foal to fully mature and this is the ONLY AGGRESSIVE EXPERIENCE WE’VE EVER HAD.

Please refrain from posting if there is absolutely nothing constructive to your post, it’s a waste of everybody’s effort including your own.

You need to read your own posts again. I was responding to these comments

The same way my dogs are handled at feeding time.

they don’t dare growl

Aggressive/possessive behaviour is not tolerated

Not a chance that would stand. And I’m not happy allowing it.

 

[HannahKate98]

Sorry OP for these comments - I have no idea why this poster thinks you are forceful with your animals. Personally I think you come across as a responsible owner of horses and dogs who has professional support when needed and are concerned because one of your well-cared for animals is suddenly aggressive!

I’m afraid I have no suggestions, it sounds like a fair amount of time has passed since the rainscald treatment so it may be a red herring. I hope the vet visit turns up something simple and that you can keep yourself (and others) safe in the meantime.

Thank you so much. The vet is due tomorrow so hopefully we’ll have some answers. From what my vet was saying on the phone some ulcers don’t always show up when scoped, hind gut if I’m recalling that right. So if nothing else shows when he has a full work up I may see about an ulcer treatment just in case. We have put signage up around the paddock (it has 3 entrances) and we fenced a few feet away from one gate as people are able to lean over from a foot path to ensure they aren’t able to get to him. Yesterday he was caught over the fence for evening checks and my husband was with me which is now going to be our routine until he has been checked and we get to the bottom of this.

I do very much agree that with such time passing from the rain scald this is rather odd.

 

[HannahKate98]

You need to read your own post again. I was responding to these comments

I’m not happy if they growl/act aggressive and they would be straight back to full time training if this was the case.

None of what I said suggests they’d be hit/hurt etc if they behave that way just that it wouldn’t stand in my house.

I assume owners aren’t okay with aggressive pets of any sort as that’s just asking for trouble.

One of my dogs had aggressive tendencies at feeding due to a hormonal imbalance it was worked with between vet, trainer and ourselves.

Please don’t assume someone hurts animals because they don’t agree with pisspoor behaviours. Personally I think it’s the responsible thing to do. Or I could let my dogs fight over food and let my horses attack handlers and just deal with the injuries as they arise maybe that’s the way to go

 

[maya2008]

Ok…

Why is everyone obsessing over food? Do you all seriously never add anything, move the bowl, hold it to help them get the last bits out, move the whole pony and food because some other pony wants to steal it? Ever? The number of posts I have read suggesting getting a horse to follow a feed bucket onto a trailer or whatever to help with loading…and then this? I currently have 11 ponies, including a new one that arrived with a label of being ‘aggressive’. I can move/adjust the feed bowl of every single one of them if I need to. I can carry hay while leading them, I can adjust and move haynets. So can my husband, or the kids. We can give them an extra fibre feed (dried grass) while tacking up in the winter. It’s just not, and has never been, an issue, from ferals to tame ponies.

Anyway…OP I hope you get some answers when the vet comes. This is a sharp change of behaviour and aggression can absolutely be linked to pain.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

As for the being forceful debate, nothing I've read so far from the OP gave me that impression. OP, I wouldn't have used the hibiscrub on his rain scald, but I probably would have reacted far more sternly to his unwanted behaviour too. Yes, obviously, it's sensible to have him checked over by vet and so on, but do remember it is also possible that he's being horrible to you because he thinks that he can. And either way, until it's resolved fully, the safest thing is to not give him the opportunity to repeat the behaviour. Hence tying him up if you must be in the stable with him. Personally, I'd not want to risk it, and would find a way to tie him up outside if there's no other stable free. I also wouldn't do anything such as rugging or checking him over by hand when he's loose in the field. Set him up to succeed. I would expect, however, to be able to enter his field freely to poo pick/weed, do water, etc. The field is (presumably!) big enough for both of you to co-exist. Just keep an eye in case he escalates to running at you. Hard hat and body protector would be my suggestion.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

This is the point. He’s not a new adult horse. I’ve had him a year, the behaviour started less than a week ago. It was not exhibited during racing as I have managed to speak to staff on the yard he was at today. I’ve had him and handled him daily from June other than the 3 weeks I was in the States but that was back in 2023

I hope you get some answers from your vet. Ulcers seems like the most likely cause to me, probably stemming from the rainscald treatment but, of course there could be something new brewing. You are right to stay safe.

 

[ycbm]

it is also possible that he's being horrible to you because he thinks that he can

In 50 years of being around hundreds, probably thousands by now, of horses I have never met a single horse who would fit this description. There has always, always, been physical or mental turmoil, or sex drive, involved.

Some of the worst are orphan foals brought up by loving humans who simply never learn boundaries, but that isn't the case here.
.

 

[ycbm]

Thank you so much. The vet is due tomorrow so hopefully we’ll have some answers. From what my vet was saying on the phone some ulcers don’t always show up when scoped, hind gut if I’m recalling that right. So if nothing else shows when he has a full work up I may see about an ulcer treatment just in case. We have put signage up around the paddock (it has 3 entrances) and we fenced a few feet away from one gate as people are able to lean over from a foot path to ensure they aren’t able to get to him. Yesterday he was caught over the fence for evening checks and my husband was with me which is now going to be our routine until he has been checked and we get to the bottom of this.

I do very much agree that with such time passing from the rain scald this is rather odd.

If no ulcers are found on scoping then I strongly recommend you try aloe vera. I got the tip from PaS, and there are now lots of us on the forum who have seen great success in calming an unhappy gut with it. It has also been tested and proven to assist the healing of stomach ulcers and it's cheap as chips.
.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Me too. I really don't know why the OP is getting such stick. She has one horse out of several which is exhibiting NEW dangerous behaviours. Has anyone got any constructive suggestions other than the obvious of ulcers?
.

Yes. He's six, and might just be being a prat. But that's probably not what you had in mind, so how about we do the usual checklist of food triggers? Soya, alfalfa, cereals, herbs - what's in his feed? More importantly, what isn't in it that he might have been exposed to by a third party? The bad behaviour is said to have only started recently, and the OP said that his feed hadn't changed, BUT might someone be feeding him treats or such over the fence?

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think each horse is different one of mine is happy to be rug changed or touched when eating the other one not so much so I try not to.

This situation is different as its new behaviour from this horse.

Could he have rain scald again?

It's been warm but wet here ideal for them getting it Arabi got it in the summer.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

And it's perfectly normal to be able to take food away from dogs, so ignore that noise.

 

[skinnydipper]

I’m not happy if they growl/act aggressive and they would be straight back to full time training if this was the case.

It is you that your dogs need to listen to, not a trainer.

Teach them how you want them to behave, be consistent.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I can't help with the horse behaviour, but want to say I have lived with GSDs for over 60 years and whilst my dogs are left to eat in peace they learn from a very early age that if I want to take their food bowl or take food from their mouth, then I can do it. This means if they are eating something they shouldn't, or stupid owner puts the wrong bowl down, there is no issue.

 

[HannahKate98]

If no ulcers are found on scoping then I strongly recommend you try aloe vera. I got the tip from PaS, and there are now lots of us on the forum who have seen great success in calming an unhappy gut with it. It has also been tested and proven to assist the healing of stomach ulcers and it's cheap as chips.
.

That’s fantastic advice thank you! I’ve heard people say they feed it, never knew what for until now. I’ll definitely give that a go!