Horse back pain? Ulcers? Kissing spine?

[axe1312]

Hi everyone, yes it's me again. I've taken everyone's advice on board, and I'm now looking for more. I've changed/changing his food to something gentle on his belly. We've had the vet out, who said try coligone. Which made no difference apart from made him tired. I've also done what a few posters said about pressure points, which he had no reaction to. He's had bute, which also didn't help. So I don't know what to do. My parents refuse to get the vet, as they keep telling me he's fine, and it's behaviour. The vet also thinks it's behaviour. Something isn't right, and I know it. Another thing to add is he is dominant horse in the field, and to his stable mates. He also eats while being led, and drags you where he wants to go. So he does have some behaviour issues. Along with a previous napping problem, which is now only out hacking. According to his previous owner, he hated being groomed as well. But 4 years ago, meaning 7 owners ago, he used to live being groomed. He's had over 9 owners in his life.
At the start of every grooming or touching session he loves it, that lasts 5 mins then he hates it. I've owned him 4 months, and even the vet said its early days. But I don't know. Does everyone still think ulcers? As he actually meets every sign of kissing spine? He's not sensitive on his belly at all, or Girthy. He puts his ears back when the saddle goes on. Opinions? My instructer is taking a look at him in 3 days, she's dealt with many ulcer horses in her life, and she said some don't show signs, some do. But she will take a look, she said she doesn't think he has them, but he won't know unless we scope.

 

[ponynutz]

deleted

 

[magicmoments]

Well done for coming back.
The only way to rule out kissing spines is xrays which would require a vet, rule out ulcers is a scope, but hind gut can't be scooped for. Can recommend a chat to Ron fields, as preulc is really good.
Personally I think there are certainly issues. Finding them is the difficult thing. What we need to remember is that every horse is different, behaviour may not fit every box for that problem. To some extent it's a process of elimination. You can easily find the cause as you believe, but unfortunately the main problem has often caused other issues. Unfortunately it's not an exact science.
Good luck

 

[ponynutz]

OP I've just read over your last couple of threads and I want to stop you before this one gets out of hand again.

What is really going on here? I think you're very confused and clearly extremely anxious and naiive. These are obviously not good things to feel and in a way I respect you for wanting to do right by the horse. But you're ruminating and seeking reassurance/help in an almost desperate way. You've been worried about ulcers and now you're worried about kissing spines? Are you googling common horse issues/diagnoses to try and find an answer? So far the only thing I can gather the horse has actually been diagnosed with is laminitis which was treated so poorly I really wonder if the poor thing is still suffering from it. Can you google or find some advice on managing laminitis?

This forum is not the place to solve these issues, partly because of your age and the fact this is a public forum. I'm very worried at how easily your desperation seems to allow you to give out personal details about your location or PM adult strangers on the internet. To me, it's almost starting to become a safety concern. I would really suggest following the advice of others on your most recent thread and contacting WHW or joining a Pony Club where you can find an experienced professional to help you.

 

[ycbm]

I think people need to read these of your previous threads before they respond to this one.

Horse hates being touched/groomed

If you read my last post, you know the concerns. He's sinse had the vet out, and she said an option is scoping, for £360. But she thinks it's behaviour, but she said she can't give me an exact answer without a scope. She also said it could be as he used to have an I'll fitting saddle and has a...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

my horse holds his tail to the right

hiya, since the day we got my horse, hes always held his tail to one side. the vet didnt mention it and he passed a vetting. but the saddler and physio pointed it out. is this a sign that he is weaker on one side? if so which side? he has weak hindlegs, also not picked up on the vetting, but the...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

horse is suddenly acting weird, need help....

i have an ish who is 14, he is a gelding. i have only owned him 2 weeks, and i know it isnt long, but he has acting the same the whole time until sunday. he is very calm horse, not bothered by much, eats soaked hay, eats dengie and spillers food. he has swollen cheekbones, is very jumpy at...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

can a horse have flu with no cough

my horse has alot of different symptoms and im thinking he has the flu, but he has no cough. is it possible for him to have the flu with no cough???

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[magicmoments]

I think people need to read these of your previous threads before they respond to this one.

Horse hates being touched/groomed

If you read my last post, you know the concerns. He's sinse had the vet out, and she said an option is scoping, for £360. But she thinks it's behaviour, but she said she can't give me an exact answer without a scope. She also said it could be as he used to have an I'll fitting saddle and has a...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

my horse holds his tail to the right

hiya, since the day we got my horse, hes always held his tail to one side. the vet didnt mention it and he passed a vetting. but the saddler and physio pointed it out. is this a sign that he is weaker on one side? if so which side? he has weak hindlegs, also not picked up on the vetting, but the...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

horse is suddenly acting weird, need help....

i have an ish who is 14, he is a gelding. i have only owned him 2 weeks, and i know it isnt long, but he has acting the same the whole time until sunday. he is very calm horse, not bothered by much, eats soaked hay, eats dengie and spillers food. he has swollen cheekbones, is very jumpy at...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

can a horse have flu with no cough

my horse has alot of different symptoms and im thinking he has the flu, but he has no cough. is it possible for him to have the flu with no cough???

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

The trouble is many people don't even read the entire current thread, never mind going back to look at previous ones. Just to be clear I'm not disagreeing with you though. I have some recollection of the previous threads, but didn't read them all again.

 

[Rowreach]

The last thread was locked.

Axe my advice is the same, stop posting on here, listen to the people who know your horse (and you) in real life.

 

[ycbm]

I'm going to keep copying this so it's the first post that people who read from the bottom up see when they open the thread.

I think people need to read these of your previous threads before they respond to this one.

Horse hates being touched/groomed

If you read my last post, you know the concerns. He's sinse had the vet out, and she said an option is scoping, for £360. But she thinks it's behaviour, but she said she can't give me an exact answer without a scope. She also said it could be as he used to have an I'll fitting saddle and has a...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

my horse holds his tail to the right

hiya, since the day we got my horse, hes always held his tail to one side. the vet didnt mention it and he passed a vetting. but the saddler and physio pointed it out. is this a sign that he is weaker on one side? if so which side? he has weak hindlegs, also not picked up on the vetting, but the...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

horse is suddenly acting weird, need help....

i have an ish who is 14, he is a gelding. i have only owned him 2 weeks, and i know it isnt long, but he has acting the same the whole time until sunday. he is very calm horse, not bothered by much, eats soaked hay, eats dengie and spillers food. he has swollen cheekbones, is very jumpy at...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

can a horse have flu with no cough

my horse has alot of different symptoms and im thinking he has the flu, but he has no cough. is it possible for him to have the flu with no cough???

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[axe1312]

OP I've just read over your last couple of threads and I want to stop you before this one gets out of hand again.

What is really going on here? I think you're very confused and clearly extremely anxious and naiive. These are obviously not good things to feel and in a way I respect you for wanting to do right by the horse. But you're ruminating and seeking reassurance/help in an almost desperate way. You've been worried about ulcers and now you're worried about kissing spines? Are you googling common horse issues/diagnoses to try and find an answer? So far the only thing I can gather the horse has actually been diagnosed with is laminitis which was treated so poorly I really wonder if the poor thing is still suffering from it. Can you google or find some advice on managing laminitis?

This forum is not the place to solve these issues, partly because of your age and the fact this is a public forum. I'm very worried at how easily your desperation seems to allow you to give out personal details about your location or PM adult strangers on the internet. To me, it's almost starting to become a safety concern. I would really suggest following the advice of others on your most recent thread and contacting WHW or joining a Pony Club where you can find an experienced professional to help you.

Yes I'm am anxious reck, every slight trip, or sneeze I panic. I'm Google Google Google all day long. I just never know what he's feeling as he can't speak. I don't know what I'm worried about, all I know is he isn't like the other horses I've groomed and ridden. But, he is the first thoroughbred I've ridden and groomed. The laminitis was a maybe, the vet said its about 60% sure it's laminitis, and 40% it's foot sore. His feet are completely fine now, and he has back shoes on. He was very flat footed so apparently that causes concussion. We couldn't take him off feed as he is dropping weight. We've have to up his calories to maintain his top line, and weight. He won't be doing roadwork for a while, even tho he is recovered. My yo didn't think it was laminitis, and tbh, his feet weren't got at all. But it was pulsing, and he was stuff and lame. What is whw? And I looked into pony clubs, and I think im going to join up, but I'm worried JJ will be the only 16hh, and the rest will be pony's.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The vet and farrier are the people to discuss feet with, rather than an inexperienced YO. The best way to put weight on a horse which may have had laminitis is to give him as much hay as he can possibly eat and if he still needs more weight give him grass-based, rather than cereal-based feed, which could lead to a recurrence of laminitis, just be careful not to let him put too much weight on.
PC is unlikely to only have ponies there

Eta your farrier will be able to tell you whether JJ had laminitis or not.

 

[Bobthecob15]

Loads of 15yr olds have horses over 16hh in our local PCs, not that height should be a reason not to join!

However...do you need another opinion? You've been given loads of good advice here on professionals you can speak to local to you, I'd suggest you do that before consulting yet more people.

 

[axe1312]

The vet and farrier are the people to discuss feet with, rather than an inexperienced YO. The best way to put weight on a horse which may have had laminitis is to give him as much hay as he can possibly eat and if he still needs more weight give him grass-based, rather than cereal-based feed.m, which could lead to a recurrence of laminitis just be careful not to let him put too much weight on.
PC is unlikely to only have ponies there

Eta your farrier will be able to tell you whether JJ had laminitis or not.

I don't feed anything cereal based, I try my best to stick with natural based hrass/Hay chaff, and easy digestible fibre mash

 

[axe1312]

Loads of 15yr olds have horses over 16hh in our local PCs, not that height should be a reason not to join!

However...do you need another opinion? You've been given loads of good advice here on professionals you can speak to local to you, I'd suggest you do that before consulting yet more people.

Ok

 

[axe1312]

Loads of 15yr olds have horses over 16hh in our local PCs, not that height should be a reason not to join!

However...do you need another opinion? You've been given loads of good advice here on professionals you can speak to local to you, I'd suggest you do that before consulting yet more people.

Is whw, world horse welfare?

 

[nagblagger]

Axe are you venting all your anxieties on here so you appear to be coping in real life. Are you apprehensive about riding him . If you do suffer, from your own admission, with stress, anxiety, over thinking maybe you should have support from a professional to talk through your problems and help you develop coping mechanisms.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I am just throwing this out there but do you think you’re anxious and worried as he just doesn’t feel like the right horse for you? Are you not enjoying him ?

Generally I’ve felt much more anxious when I was your age when I’ve been over horsed and something just doesn’t feel right so constant worry set in. Do you get enjoyment from him ? Or do you find yourself looking for excuses not to do things with him.

There is no shame in feeling something isn’t right about a horse but I wonder if it’s more he is not the horse for you rather than being seriously unwell? I know vets sometimes get it wrong but on the whole the amount of work they have to do to become a vet would far outweigh our knowledge.

 

[ycbm]

This horse has had 7 owners in 4 years, one every six months or so. The chances of it being Axe that's the problem seem pretty slim to me.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

This horse has had 7 owners in 4 years, one every six months or so. The chances of it being Axe that's the problem seem pretty slim to me.
.

The chances are non existent IMO .
This horses needs a proper issues with performance type work up .

 

[axe1312]

I am just throwing this out there but do you think you’re anxious and worried as he just doesn’t feel like the right horse for you? Are you not enjoying him ?

Generally I’ve felt much more anxious when I was your age when I’ve been over horsed and something just doesn’t feel right so constant worry set in. Do you get enjoyment from him ? Or do you find yourself looking for excuses not to do things with him.

There is no shame in feeling something isn’t right about a horse but I wonder if it’s more he is not the horse for you rather than being seriously unwell? I know vets sometimes get it wrong but on the whole the amount of work they have to do to become a vet would far outweigh our knowledge.

I've definitely been over horsed. But I love him, and I'm not selling him. I love going hacking

 

[motherof2beasts!]

This horse has had 7 owners in 4 years, one every six months or so. The chances of it being Axe that's the problem seem pretty slim to me.
.

I’m not saying I’m right just asking a question. None of us know if any of this is even correct information or someone panicking. I’m confused by the “vet says it’s behaviour “ comments as vets are usually keen to pursue if they have health concerns and don’t generally use behaviour as an excuse. If all the “professionals” are saying it’s not XYZ and axe is saying her parents won’t get vet out again and vet says it’s behaviour I can’t see how this horse or owner will move on.

 

[Goldenstar]

Any vet who tells an owner it’s just behaviour when the horse presents as we told this one does without an exhaustive work up is a bad vet .
Forty years ago it was excusable now a days it is not .
We just know so much more and have access to better diagnostics .

 

[ycbm]

vets are usually keen to pursue if they have health concerns and don’t generally use behaviour as an excuse.

This isn't my experience. For both the last two horses I've put to sleep I offered vets the opportunity to use whatever diagnostics they could see were warranted. The first (very experienced) said there was nothing he could see to explore and the horse was just behaving like a thoroughbred. A few months later I took the horse to a hospital and gave them instructions to x ray the neck. It was so riddled with arthritis that he was PTS when pain killers failed to change what I was feeling and seeing.

The second horse had three different vets offered the same opportunity over 3 years due to an odd way of standing and occasional "falling off" a hind leg. Finally I took him for a performance workup where he was declared sound. I insisted on hock x rays and PSD scans and hock spurs were found. It was only when he actually went lame 4 months later, in so minor a way that the vet students couldn't see it, and was nerve blocked to identify the source, that we found deformed pastern bones.


I'm now of the opinion that it's never "just behavioural" and the horse is in either physical or mental pain.
.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

This isn't my experience. For both the last two horses I've put to sleep I offered vets the opportunity to use whatever diagnostics they could see were warranted. The first (very experienced) said there was nothing he could see to explore and the horse was just behaving like a thoroughbred. A few months later I took the horse to a hospital and gave them instructions to x ray the neck. It was so riddled with arthritis that he was PTS when pain killers failed to change what I was feeling and seeing.

The second horse had three different vets offered the same opportunity over 3 years due to an odd way of standing and occasional "falling off" a hind leg. Finally I took him for a performance workup where he was declared sound. I insisted on hock x rays and PSD scans and hock spurs were found. It was only when he actually went lame 4 months later, in so minor a way that the vet students couldn't see it, and was nerve blocked to identify the source, that we found deformed pastern bones.


I'm now of the opinion that it's never "just behavioural" and the horse is in either physical or mental pain.
.

I completely agree it’s never just behavioural, sorry you had that experience, maybe I am lucky to have such a kind a through vets.

In axes situation though I’m not sure what if anything will help as parents won’t get the vet, the vet says all is fine as does those on the ground. Just seems the situation goes round and round in circles with no improvement but yet more concerns.

 

[ycbm]

In Axe's case the horse is paying for the failings of multiple adult humans over years, I could cry for it
.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

In axe's position I would start by asking the farrier if the horse actually ever had laminitis. That would tell me whether the vet actually knew what they were talking about. I certainly wouldn't be fobbed off by "it's behavioural" but I have years of experience and pay my own vet bills.

 

[axe1312]

In axe's position I would start by asking the farrier if the horse actually ever had laminitis. That would tell me whether the vet actually knew what they were talking about. I certainly wouldn't be fobbed off by "it's behavioural" but I have years of experience and pay my own vet bills.

Farrier said that he was quite flat footed, which is what the vet said caused the laminitis. But the vet also said he could just be really foot sore. As his hoofs weren't hot. But he had all other signs of laminitis. I don't know, I never believed it was behaviour, but I think it's more of a emotional pain/trauma. As depending on where, when, who and what your doing, will depend on his recation. For example yesterday, he stood tied, and I groomed his entire body, with 2 kicks out, once when the back was groomed, once the belly, but was only when I used the flick brush. And this morning, he was groomed and had a haircut, amazing boy again, only thing is he didn't like having the bridle path cut between his forelock and mane. But this evening, he needed a groom before we have a lesson/check. I tied him outside with lush grass. However this time he was kicking out when his bum was groomed. But was fine for back, mane and tail. Nothing ever adds up with him. Someday, I feel like we've made so much progress, and after all he's finally calmed down and it was all behaviour. Next day, I'm taking him out of work, and calling vet, physio, coach etc. The mot eive been letting these behaviours slide, the more he is pushing. He will now just walk out of his stable drag you over somewhere, stand and eat and refuse to move. And also a real grump if anyone is near him eating. He bullies every horse I the field. And as soon as someone turns their back, he's biting their bum

 

[axe1312]

In Axe's case the horse is paying for the failings of multiple adult humans over years, I could cry for it
.

I've cried for it several times. We really are doing everything we can for him. I can't do what others have done and aks for xrays or scopes etc, as me nor my parents have any idea. And they will only pay for something if the vet, physio or farrier recommend it. For example if the physio says, get him scoped or xrays, mum will have it done, even if vet doesn't know. If physio says get pessoa, well get it. He used to have an I'll fitting saddle for 3 years of his life, and the physio said that is why he is so sensitive. But in around 3 weeks she is coming again, and we will talk more about his behaviour and what she recommends. In 6 years he's had 7 homes. And the 8 years before that we don't know what happened. But he was hunted very young, and has always had a sore back because of it. Another thing we will talk to physio about to see if it relates to his grooming issues. He is also thin skinned, and boney, so he can feel every touch. The lighter touch, he gets on fine with, for months people said press harder he's ticklish, but he's not, he's sensitive, and I don't know why yet.

 

[Landcruiser]

horse is suddenly acting weird, need help....​

• Thread starteraxe1312
• Start dateApr 25, 2023

• #1

A

axe1312​

Well-Known Member​

JoinedApr 24, 2023Messages217
i have an ish who is 14, he is a gelding.

But, he is the first thoroughbred I've ridden and groomed.

The first bit of text is from 25/4. The second is today. Has he also changed breed?

Nothing ever adds up with him.

Also today.

 

[little_critter]

horse is suddenly acting weird, need help....​

• Thread starteraxe1312
• Start dateApr 25, 2023

• #1

A

axe1312​

Well-Known Member​

JoinedApr 24, 2023Messages217
i have an ish who is 14, he is a gelding.


The first bit of text is from 25/4. The second is today. Has he also changed breed?

Also today.

I also spotted that.

 

[FireCracker238]

Has Axe not stated in one of their other posts that's he's something like 83% TB and the rest is ID

N.B. 83 is approx I also have 87% in my head too