Horse back pain? Ulcers? Kissing spine?

[axe1312]

horse is suddenly acting weird, need help....​

• Thread starteraxe1312
• Start dateApr 25, 2023

• #1

A

axe1312​

Well-Known Member​

JoinedApr 24, 2023Messages217
i have an ish who is 14, he is a gelding.


The first bit of text is from 25/4. The second is today. Has he also changed breed?

Also today.

No he was sold as an Irish sports horse, but his passport says he's thoroughbred. It was a false sale, he was sold on behalf of someone else. And they lied about his past and his issues.

 

[axe1312]

Has Axe not stated in one of their other posts that's he's something like 83% TB and the rest is ID

N.B. 83 is approx I also have 87% in my head too

Yes, so he's pretty much thoroughbred, with secretariat in his bloodline. Even the ID had thoroughbred in it. So he's ish x tb. The ish, is tb x Id. But the ID, is also part tb.

 

[axe1312]

Can I also ask, you guys have said feed ad lib Hay. How much is the limit. He's eating 2x 6.5kg nets. And an extra half net on the floor, or In a net. He's getting over 14kg per night, plus extra grazing, and hard feed/chaff. He's not hungry, as he is gaining weight with all this Hay being fed. As you guys said ad lib, he now has a Hay belly, and also can no longer see his ribs.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I've cried for it several times. We really are doing everything we can for him. I can't do what others have done and aks for xrays or scopes etc, as me nor my parents have any idea. And they will only pay for something if the vet, physio or farrier recommend it. For example if the physio says, get him scoped or xrays, mum will have it done, even if vet doesn't know. If physio says get pessoa, well get it. He used to have an I'll fitting saddle for 3 years of his life, and the physio said that is why he is so sensitive. But in around 3 weeks she is coming again, and we will talk more about his behaviour and what she recommends. In 6 years he's had 7 homes. And the 8 years before that we don't know what happened. But he was hunted very young, and has always had a sore back because of it. Another thing we will talk to physio about to see if it relates to his grooming issues. He is also thin skinned, and boney, so he can feel every touch. The lighter touch, he gets on fine with, for months people said press harder he's ticklish, but he's not, he's sensitive, and I don't know why yet.

How do you know he had ill fitting saddle for 3 years and hunted etc? Is that 7 owners in passport?

It all sounds very confusing, is this your first horse? What’s he like being ridden ?

 

[Barton Bounty]

@axe1312

I still stand by everything I have said to you previously on the forum or by PM.

Turn him away for a month. That doesn’t mean you ignore him. Do some groundwork. Some long reigning etc. but stay off him for a trial period.

He is telling you he is uncomfortable and you need to go back to basics to find out what it is.

Some of the advice you have had has been appalling. It really has…

Unlimited hay is unlimited.. BB can eat 3 x 10 kg a night.

 

[ycbm]

Whether it's 7 owners in 4 years or 7 owners in 6 years there's a reason why this poor horse has been passed from pillar to post. With his current symptoms, as reported over multiple threads, I agree with Goldenstar, he needs a proper workup in a vet hospital.
.

 

[Peglo]

You say he tries to bite you when you put his saddle on. That “behaviour” is for a reason wether that’s because the saddle doesn’t fit, ulcers or pain whilst being ridden (Or many other reasons) but he is telling you he doesn’t want it on.

if he doesn’t like being groomed why do you keep persisting? One of mine didn’t like being groomed (but never had to kick or bite to tell me) so I only did it when necessary.

For his aggressiveness whilst eating I would feed him separately so he doesn’t injure other peoples horses. That’s not really fair. Ad-lib hay means he never runs out of hay. There is a constant amount in front of him so he always has access to food.

I hope someone (vet, farrier) has given you advice for how to solve the hoof issues if it’s not laminitis other than lock him in a stable.

I do feel for you being so young and having very little control but this poor horse is having a bad time of it.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

OP I have a pony who has had both kissing spines and ulcers. The only way to diagnose KS is with an xray and a lameness work up/nerve blocking. My pony never responded to pressure points. And then ulcers she had grade 4 including squamous, they were bleeding. She didn't drop weight, she looked well, was a tiny bit girthy (she'd literally turn to look at you when tightning on the right side) and gave less flexion when riding to the right than to the left. Her symptoms didn't marry up to the severity of her condition.

Basically, you need a good vet. If your parents won't pay insurance/vet fees then I personally would try and have the poor thing put down or if he is happy to, retire him to grass/retirement livery.

 

[Glitter's fun]

For clarity :

O.P. does not own this horse,
O.P. does not pay the bills for this horse,
O.P. does not make any of the decisions about this horse's feed, exercise, or anything else,
O.P. does not call the vet, discuss with the vet first hand, pay the vet,

in short, O.P. is a minor and is powerless to act on any advice given here. These discussions will always be only hypothetical and cannot help the horse or O.P.
Previous threads by same poster have been locked.

 

[SDMabel]

Wow.. I've just read back through all of the previous threads and done a bit of digging on the horses passported name provided by the OP.

He was in 2018 local to myself with a local rider- Her name is listed on the dressage start times next to his passported name , a quick Facebook search will bring up her equine business name.

https://arenauk.com/media/attachments/2018/05/13/dressage-times-area-festival-2018.pdf

There is also photos of him still on the photographers website to check it is the same horse OP :

Image BDR 4637 by Terina Whaling

4870002.tifmember.com

It may be worth attempting to contact her to see if she can shed any light on his past .

 

[PSD]

Gosh that was quite a read.

OP you suspect ulcers so you need to have him scoped. If you also suspect KS have his back x rayed, there’s a lot going on here.

If you cannot afford these things then you need to either sell him, disclosing all his issues, or perhaps contact a charity who will take him on. Though I’m not sure many will as they are pushed for funds as it is.

The horse needs to see a vet either way, unfortunately if you don’t have the funds to support this then I’m afraid you shouldn’t have bought him.

 

[ycbm]

Gosh that was quite a read.

OP you suspect ulcers so you need to have him scoped. If you also suspect KS have his back x rayed, there’s a lot going on here.

If you cannot afford these things then you need to either sell him, disclosing all his issues, or perhaps contact a charity who will take him on. Though I’m not sure many will as they are pushed for funds as it is.

The horse needs to see a vet either way, unfortunately if you don’t have the funds to support this then I’m afraid you shouldn’t have bought him.

Axe is a minor with little influence over her parents' decisions about this horse.

This has gone round and round in circles over at least 4 threads for months now. The horse needs a vet who knows what they are doing. Axe's parents don't accept that, they are satisfied with the advice they are getting from the vet and the livery yard owner.
.

 

[PSD]

Axe is a minor with little influence over her parents' decisions about this horse.

This has gone round and round in circles over at least 4 threads for months now. The horse needs a vet who knows what they are doing. Axe's parents don't accept that, they are satisfied with the advice they are getting from the vet and the livery yard owner.
.

Quite a sad situation really, I feel for the poor horse.

 

[Bobthecob15]

Axe I feel for you, I really do. You are stuck in an impossible situation.

I think the advice from the others about considering another home for him would be the best option for HIM...you are not in the position to give him what he needs, no matter how much you love him. It's not your fault. Please seriously consider selling him or passing to a charity. He needs more than you can give him sadly. So desperately sorry for the horse and your situation.

No other advice is going to change the situation.

 

[axe1312]

How do you know he had ill fitting saddle for 3 years and hunted etc? Is that 7 owners in passport?

It all sounds very confusing, is this your first horse? What’s he like being ridden ?

Only 4 owners are in the passport. But we spoke to them, and spoke to who they sold him too etc. The physio said she can feel he had a recent I'll fitting saddle before we brought him. And the saddle his old owner used he said he used it on all his horses, and it wasn't actually fitted to him. That owner had him for 3 years. Yes he's my first horse, I've never had a share or a loan either. He's amazing under saddle, just unbalanced, and my instructer is helping with that. It's when he's in an outline he leans on you. And can fall in or out sometimes on circles and corners.

 

[axe1312]

Whether it's 7 owners in 4 years or 7 owners in 6 years there's a reason why this poor horse has been passed from pillar to post. With his current symptoms, as reported over multiple threads, I agree with Goldenstar, he needs a proper workup in a vet hospital.
.

He's had this many owners becuase he has always been a first/or a recovery horse. Everyone brought him, and progressed then sold him on. One owner sold him as he was too quirky, but the rest sold him as they wanted something to go higher up on.

 

[axe1312]

OP I have a pony who has had both kissing spines and ulcers. The only way to diagnose KS is with an xray and a lameness work up/nerve blocking. My pony never responded to pressure points. And then ulcers she had grade 4 including squamous, they were bleeding. She didn't drop weight, she looked well, was a tiny bit girthy (she'd literally turn to look at you when tightning on the right side) and gave less flexion when riding to the right than to the left. Her symptoms didn't marry up to the severity of her condition.

Basically, you need a good vet. If your parents won't pay insurance/vet fees then I personally would try and have the poor thing put down or if he is happy to, retire him to grass/retirement livery. Are you joking, he doesn't need to he put down. I was planning on retiring him, but we had a behaviourist out, and they said not to retire him. She checked his body like a vet would, and noticed his withers were slightly sore. But the rets she said was behaviour. She said she wouldn't bring him out of work, she said it will all come with time. Vet said the same.

 

[axe1312]

Wow.. I've just read back through all of the previous threads and done a bit of digging on the horses passported name provided by the OP.

He was in 2018 local to myself with a local rider- Her name is listed on the dressage start times next to his passported name , a quick Facebook search will bring up her equine business name.

https://arenauk.com/media/attachments/2018/05/13/dressage-times-area-festival-2018.pdf

There is also photos of him still on the photographers website to check it is the same horse OP :

Image BDR 4637 by Terina Whaling

4870002.tifmember.com

It may be worth attempting to contact her to see if she can shed any light on his past .

Already done. He's always had a sore back due to hunting. At that point he didn't have ulcers. However he did develop them a few years later. But we're treated.

 

[JBM]

Omg are you joking, he doesn't need to he put down. Jesus christ. I was planning on retiring him, but we had a behaviourist out, and they said not to retire him. She checked his body like a vet would, and noticed his withers were slightly sore. But the rets she said was behaviour. She said she wouldn't bring him out of work, she said it will all come with time. Vet said the same.

I’m not sure if that counts as bad language but edit your post you can be suspended for language

 

[ycbm]

Already done. He's always had a sore back due to hunting. At that point he didn't have ulcers. However he did develop them a few years later. But we're treated.

I hunted for many years on many different horses and none of them have ever had a sore back.

And if he does have one now, the fact that he's "always had it" is no excuse for not treating it and resolving it.

If a sore back can't be resolved the horse should not be being sat on.
.

 

[ycbm]

He's had this many owners becuase he has always been a first/or a recovery horse. Everyone brought him, and progressed then sold him on. One owner sold him as he was too quirky, but the rest sold him as they wanted something to go higher up on.

The sellers who used those excuses were probably lying to get a sale. I don't know any good horse who would be passed on through 7 homes in 4 years, or even 6 years, whichever was correct out of those two.
.

 

[JBM]

The sellers who used those excuses were probably lying to get a sale. I don't know any good horse who would be passed on through 7 homes in 4 years, or even 6 years, whichever was correct out of those two.
.

I know a lot of great horses that have been passed around as they had bad owners

 

[ycbm]

I know a lot of great horses that have been passed around as they had bad owners

Let's hope this is one, then, but from all the other information we have been given it's very unlikely, imo.

 

[ycbm]

He's amazing under saddle, just unbalanced, and my instructer is helping with that. It's when he's in an outline he leans on you. And can fall in or out sometimes on circles and corners

He is pictured above competing in Prelim 15 in 2018 at the British Area Dressage Festival, which I'm pretty sure has qualifying rounds so the horse will previously have been well placed in order to get there. [Content removed]

This doesn't fit with the difficulties of apparent greenness that you're currently having with him, unless he has since developed some issues.

I stand by what I have already written, i think it's very likely that he needs a performance workup at a vet hospital.
.

 

[Bobthecob15]

It goes on....

Not sure how a physio can tell he's had a recent saddle fitting?!

 

[axe1312]

I hunted for many years on many different horses and none of them have ever had a sore back.

And if he does have one now, the fact that he's "always had it" is no excuse for not treating it and resolving it.

If a sore back can't be resolved the horse should not be being sat on.
.

He was hunted between 2 and 3. And it is being treated, with physio work, and special exercise, which we are working on. And we are going to get a half pad, and a massage pad for his back as well.

 

[axe1312]

The sellers who used those excuses were probably lying to get a sale. I don't know any good horse who would be passed on through 7 homes in 4 years, or even 6 years, whichever was correct out of those two.
.

It wasn't the seller that told us that. And there's another horse at out yard that's had about 7 owners In it's life.

 

[axe1312]

He is pictured above competing in Prelim 15 in 2018 at the British Area Dressage Festival, which I'm pretty sure has qualifying rounds so the horse will previously have been well placed in order to get there. (ETA looking up his result he won the class at area level with a score of 68%.)

This doesn't fit with the difficulties of apparent greenness that you're currently having with him, unless he has since developed some issues.

I stand by what I have already written, i think it's very likely that he needs a performance workup at a vet hospital.
.

He's unbalanced due to not having correct work for 4 years, and having an I'll fitting saddle for 3 years

 

[axe1312]

It goes on....

Not sure how a physio can tell he's had a recent saddle fitting?!

Well she's the best in out Area, and she said she can feel it in his back. And we were also already aware that he had one. So she was right.

 

[ycbm]

He was hunted between 2 and 3.

Seriously? Who told you that?
.