Horse backing off and not jumping in a Pelham

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Christmas Crumpet

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Although this is hunting related, I thought you lot might have a better idea!! I hunted horse in a cheltenham gag last year which was ok but not ideal. However, he was keen jumping and jumped well and was happy.

Put him in a Pelham this year to see if he liked that better and he has seemed calmer and happier although not sure whether brakes have improved or my dressage lessons have improved us more!! Anyway he has been backing off jumping and not really jumping well at all or at all. I am wondering whether he doesn't like the pelham to jump in. Curb chain has been fairly tight as he's pretty strong.

Do some horses not like jumping in a pelham? I am going to put him back in the gag on Sat and see how that goes but I just had a flash of inspiration riding this morning and wondered whether it was the curb action he didn't like jumping.
 
Some horses don't like a certain bit - yours doesn't sound like he likes the pelham.

WFP once said that you sometimes have to compromise with the horse. Some horses like to take a contact into a fence and you have to have a bit to let them!
 
Since the bit doesn't actually "do" anything until the rider touches the reins, I'd be looking at the riding, not the bit. Also, a curb chain should never be tight; there is an optimum length that should only vary according to the horses head size and chin configuration, if it is shorter than it should be there will be constant pressure on the horse's chin groove; not pleasant for the horse.
 
As Cortez says...curb chain shouldn't be tight..the horse has to stretch to get over the jump and the curb will restrict him, hence him unenthusiastic to the jump....either loosen the curb or go back to the gag....
 
I am the first to hold my hands up about my riding and so yes I would agree, I am most likely holding on too much. I have fitted the curb chain properly with 2 fingers gap between chain and jaw but clearly he doesn't like it. I don't think loosening the curb chain would help in other areas out hunting ie. actual control so will go back to the gag and see how that goes.
 
I found my strong mare didn't like a pellham or anything with a curb, she sat behind it and wouldn't go forward into a contact no matter how loose it was. I always had her in a Neue schule elevator from then on and she was fab in it!
 
My horse does not like jumping if the bit is too strong, I have trailed bits like pelhams that are strong and she just goes backwards and awkward to jump. I would go back to what your horse liked.

Also with a curb don't forget the looser the curb the stronger the bit, when it is looser you allow the bit to put on more pressure before the curb stops the leverage. But it really does not sound like the horse is too strong, you just have too much control and your horse is telling you he does not like it.

I have my horse in a myler combination bit which she likes, it is not as stong as it may look. (http://www.horsebitbank.com/myler-bits-7/short-shank-combinations-2-115.dhtml)
 
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It does sound like a bitting issue .
Try a ealastic curb chain .
Try a KK universal which works really well on some horses it also works very well with roundings I would use it with a grackle if your horse is strong .
Another thing to try is the controller noseband this is a severe bit of kit but some horses can go into a mild bit when using it so it can be a good answer for some .
Pelhams don't suit all horses .
You can also go back to the Cheltenham gag if he jumped better in it .
 
yes some horses just don't read the rule book - my strong horse still pulled in a pelham but wouldn't jump well. I had her in a waterford previously, but found she still ran through the bridle so I added a kineton noseband to the waterford.

Wish I'd found that combination for hunting - I used to hunt her in a double bridle but had given up hunting by the time I tried the kineton for xc.

I naturally control her on the ground with nose pressure so was pretty confident that adding the noseband would work, and it was magic . Have to get them adjusted just right so you get the correct bit:noseband pressure ratio.

Incidentally I've never fitted a curb chain by 'finger width', I go by the idea that it should come into action when the shanks of the bit are at 45 degrees to the mouth. Too loose is as dodgy as too tight IMO, it makes the bit rotate too far in the mouth if too loose and makes the action quite different to that which is intended ;)
 
If they sit on the gag and back off the pelham you could try a combination bit? The short shank low port myler might be a good starting place.
 
Have you a show jumping instructor? Often the show jumpers have a huge tack room full of bits and will help you to get something to suit.

I remember overhearing a conversation at an event once, when someone was asking for advice for a too strong horse. The other lady said she had had a very strong horse and was fed up with it so put a very strong bit in. She said she had complete control but it ruined the horse and he was never as good again. I suppose he liked to be in control.
 
Something I have learned in my later years is that by instinct horses push back against pressure. It is a survival instinct and we train them to do the opposite. Some get it but others take a lot of very sympathetic schooling before they get it. So for some horses a strong bit works yet for some it merely makes them fight harder against the pressure. I have an ID who is very much at the extreme edge of reacting against pressure and if it were only me that had the problem ,I would have blamed my riding . Yet every far more experienced rider I have sat on him has said that he is highly sensitive ,willing to please but very difficult to ride. We have schooled him seriously for 2 years but the default situation is pull against pressure so sadly hunting will not be an option in the foreseeable future which is a shame.We have made progress though it is painfully slow. My current thoughts (though I am still learning after 50 years with them) are that go light in the mouth and school (and learn to ride better which is something I am working on .LOL)
 
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