Horse becoming dangerous

[Glitterandrainbows]

Sorry what I meant was I have called the vet and the receptionist said vet will be calling me back obviously I don’t want a phone consultation and no I’m not a time waster I’ve replied to the comments

 

[FestiveFuzz]

@planete i do just that and it’s making no difference she’s just bit me aswell physios coming today and vets calling me back if she’s in no pain I will turn her away either way as I feel she needs a mental break then try quite handling again late summer

You still haven’t mentioned her age, experience and how long you’ve had her? From what you’ve said it sounds like you have a deeply unhappy mare, whether that’s down to pain, trigger stacking or wholly behavioural is unclear from the limited information you’ve shared but I think from what you have said it’s unlikely turning her away will magically fix the issues you’re currently facing. This forum is an incredible font of knowledge, but it’s very hard to advise further without the basic info.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Sorry it’s a long one I’ll get into it now

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My ex RSPCA cob will rear if he objects to something. He does it quite safely, keeping his front legs tucked neatly against his chest, not aggressively. It is simply his way of communicating his objection and can be overcome by luring him to accept the situation with a treat and a pat most of the time. A young horse who discovers rearing can become quite fond of the effect it can have on humans too and it can be just a phase started by something like an untranquilised dental for instance or a handler over reacting. Get some help to show you how to handle this safely and calmly. The less effect the horse thinks the rearing is having the less likely he is to carry on doing it. My lipi/arab went through a similar phase at livery when handled by the grooms. I took over turning him out myself for a few weeks when he did it and he soon stopped as I just ignored his idiocy but put him to work every time. Not saying it is the case for this horse but worth considering. Horses can be very clever and get stroppy of their own bat.

Edited: I realise most people will think I am rewarding the rearing but consider that last week the vet unsuccessfully tried to inject the cob (full rear repeated as needed), then tried to twitch him (could not get near his nose), then carried out an intravenous injection with a quiet pony eating out of my hand.

Our young Appaloosa mare used to rear in the stable with her hooves tucked in. If you just stood still and waited she would drop back down quite safely. She grew out of it. She had mostly lived out before we got her. I think she was just working out what she could and couldn't do in a stable.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

So she was sold as eight year old bombproof that had pulled living wagons at Appleby, she was obviously not (baby teeth foals tail!!) she was three I had the vet check her teeth to age her for her passport, basically she was in bad condition I had her checked and luckily she was healthy she just needed her feet worms mites etc sorting all good she was so distrustful we got to a point all was going well I bought a very light cart for her once she was well enough and re backed her all was going good minor baby behaviour until the dentist come and it’s very bizarre as now I can’t even put her in her stable without her rearing such a shame as she was coming on so we’ll and is a beautiful horse.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Physio who came out was very pleased with how much she’s improved and said she looks like a different horse however she flipped over when rearing when the physio did something she didn’t like so I have no idea how to go forward is I’m platting her grooming her it’s fine bridle on with no bit fine the triggers seem to be anything that makes her jump and these are minor things and if she has to wait for as much as half a second at rug changes head collar on/off she freaked me out today as she’s normally fine with my kids been at the yard but when I was putting her in the feild she lifted her head very high and turned towards my daughter who was at the gate I actually feel sick over it

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

I have questions...
How old is she?
What level of training is she supposed to have? Ridden?
Why did you buy a horse without a passport (which is a legal requirement?)
Are you a genuine poster or a timewaster. Forgive me if the former, but you are not answering questions and it's not adding up.

Go on his page mark horses on faceboon i bought her in August look at the state of her on the photos I don’t live far from them so I thought why not go view anyway my heart ruled my head here we are.

 

[JackFrost]

Seems like the dentist visit was a trigger event. What work did the dentist do? Tbh not all dentists are good at what they do.
As I understand it she is still very young - her teeth will still be changing. In your shoes I would ask around for recommendations for a GOOD dentist/vet to have a proper look at her again, under sedation. If she is in constant or intermittent pain, that would explain a lot.
Well done for doing your best for her.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

@JackFrost thankyou means a lot it’s not just my handling etc she has been doing this with others it’s a shame as she’s amazing on the cart she came broken for it and she absolutely loves it it’s the only time she doesn’t rear she will bunny hop under saddle but I have not ridden her or taken her on the cart since the dentist due to the behaviour change and I wouldn’t be able to get the bit in for love or money unfortunately if she could over come this she will absolutely do amazing at driving and showing so sad.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Tried to put a photo of her on and it says file to large for the server

 

[AmyMay]

So she’s three(ish).

Chuck her out in the field until next year. Minimal handling, and let her mature.

 

[AmyMay]

Tried to put a photo of her on and it says file to large for the server

Choose the smaller option.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

@Amymay in a manger ive been advised by my physio and vet not too do that as she will associate people with pain as that was the situation she came in I was planning on doing minimal handling leaving her to be a horse once I was happy she was healthy and accepted saddle and rider good for farrier the last thing was the dentist and well it’s ended up like this

 

[AmyMay]

@Amymay in a manger ive been advised by my physio and vet not too do that as she will associate people with pain as that was the situation she came in I was planning on doing minimal handling leaving her to be a horse once I was happy she was healthy and accepted saddle and rider good for farrier the last thing was the dentist and well it’s ended up like this

But she’s only three…..

Giving her space and the time to peacefully mature will do her the world of good mentally and physically.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I've not read all the replies so i apologies if I've missed something or this has already been said but......wow she flipped herself over!!?

OP I've never know a horse to flip itself over just through having a babyish strop (and yes i know horses lack the cognitive ability to be naughty as such but they are capable of not wanting to do something and displaying that displeasure through avoidance behaviour I.e. rearing/napping/planting etc)
In my opinion in sounds like something is seriously wrong. Finding the cause may be an expensive process but I think for your mare's wellbeing and your safety this needs to be explored further by an experienced vet.
In the meantime I would turn her out and handle as little as possible. If you do need to handle her for any reason make sure you are wearing a hard hat and and I would personally have her in a chiffney and lunge line.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Thanks i appreciate your advise my physio is obviously brilliant with horses and she seemed to like her previously so I was gutted she did that luckily she is a great lady and understanding. My vets still not been back in touch I’ve reached out to Adam Yates (horsemanship) and Cooper Wilson (animal rekei) once she’s seen the vets she will be seen by them both then I’ll turn her away just in the mean time it’s bloody hard and we had built a lovley trusting bond and it’s all gone now

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Reluctant to use a chiffney etc I’m just going to ride it out make no more changes until she’s been seen.I have tried at first ignoring it when she reared I tried lowering myself to show her I’m not a threat I’ve tried a firm no I won’t be giving her a crack like I’ve been advised to as it’s not in me to do that so I don’t know at this point what will happen

 

[AmyMay]

Thanks i appreciate your advise my physio is obviously brilliant with horses and she seemed to like her previously so I was gutted she did that luckily she is a great lady and understanding. My vets still not been back in touch I’ve reached out to Adam Yates (horsemanship) and Cooper Wilson (animal rekei) once she’s seen the vets she will be seen by them both then I’ll turn her away just in the mean time it’s bloody hard and we had built a lovley trusting bond and it’s all gone now

I can’t see how piling on the pressure is of any benefit to her at all. But we all travel different roads I guess.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Sorry what pressure am I applying? They will be giving me tips on how to minimise the behaviour on the ground as even if turned away she’s still going to need some form of handling and I don’t want her hurting me or herself in the process

 

[View]

Please do a search on here regarding Cooper Wilson.

 

[Gallop_Away]

You could also lead her in a normal bit and bridle. Just take the reins off and attach the lunge. Having a bit in her mouth will give you some extra control.
I had a chain that I used to lead the more bolshy young tbs in that attached to either side of the bit and then clipped the lead rope to the centre so you had equal pressure on both sides. Can't remember what the hell it was called now.
In any case op please put your safety above everything! Xx

 

[Equi]

She’s 3. She doesn’t need to be working. I’m in the Chuck her out camp. She’s clearly came from a home that will have bombarded her with work and harsh treatment from day one and her brain is just going to be spoiled and possibly her body if she’s been ruined by working too young. She needs to go out and relax and learn that the human is nothing more than a carrot for a good year, then get a professional in to start her. Honestly if you just keep pushing her and pushing her someone’s going to end up dead (most likely the horse…) she’s already shown she’s way past the point of tolerance.

Vets and physios are not behavioural experts

 

[JackFrost]

@JackFrost thankyou means a lot it’s not just my handling etc she has been doing this with others it’s a shame as she’s amazing on the cart she came broken for it and she absolutely loves it it’s the only time she doesn’t rear she will bunny hop under saddle but I have not ridden her or taken her on the cart since the dentist due to the behaviour change and I wouldn’t be able to get the bit in for love or money unfortunately if she could over come this she will absolutely do amazing at driving and showing so sad.

It doesn't sound for a moment that it's just your handling! You mention bunny hopping - this can also be a clue to a physical problem but at her age being allowed to physically mature may be the best thing.
I had one a bit like this, also I think ex Appleby, she exhibited some strange behaviours, though not so extreme. If they have had unsympathetic handling, I suspect that when they do have problems, they resort to a more extreme response than is otherwise 'normal'. I suspect the mare I had had been handled roughly at some point so kind of thought this was the way to handle people too!

Is she a very dominant mare - i.e. how is she with other horses?

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Thanks all I was originally going to keep her with the other youngsters and other older mare I should of done also when I did bring her into work it was just walk and a very small bit of trot I was just trying to listen to the pros but I won’t be now Thankyou turn out it is I will try find somewhere she can live out all year with natural shelter

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

No she’s very good with other horses she never kicks bites etc she did rear at the other youngsters when they all round but she was by no means even close to been top of the pecking order

 

[Illusion100]

She seems overwhelmed and the rearing is now a learned behaviour to attempt to avoid any sort of perceived pressure she is anticipating.

The fact she has now reared and flipped over is concerning, as this is an extreme length to go to and will have inevitably caused at least soft tissue injury, which will make her more anxious.

So you are caught in a vicious circle here.

I also support turning her out full time asap, not to let her mentally mature, but for safety reasons. I doubt time out at grass will undo learned behaviour/anxiety issues etc, but this will give you time to explore a suitable professional trainer and form a plan while eliminating the risk of further injury to your horse and yourself.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

It will mean moving her again though as she has to be in from 5:30 pm till morning and she’s found friends in the herd now so I’m abit gutted

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

@Illusion100 the only saving grace is that she was in the stable and landed on a thick straw bed the strangest thing is she will listen if I tell her back up she will stand she will picks all four feet up can leave the stable door open she won’t run out her stable manners were fab until dentist now it’s like having a different horse and it’s my own fault I should of pushed for sedation.

 

[Illusion100]

It will mean moving her again though as she has to be in from 5:30 pm till morning and she’s found friends in the herd now so I’m abit gutted

Oh that's disappointing. Moving her may make the situation worse, plus I think the rearing issues should be addressed before trying to load her etc.

Are your yard owners aware of the situation? Do you feel they are approachable?

A possibility may be an temporary agreement to leave your mare out with a companion livery horse until you organise a professional trainer to help you.

If not, perhaps sedating her for travel may be advisable, speak to your vet.

Ultimately finding a professional that is capable of correcting the behaviour is vital.

Otherwise you can gear up (hat/gloves/bodyprotector) and use a lunge line to keep out of the way of her fronts while leading until you find a capable trainer.

 

[Illusion100]

@Illusion100 the only saving grace is that she was in the stable and landed on a thick straw bed the strangest thing is she will listen if I tell her back up she will stand she will picks all four feet up can leave the stable door open she won’t run out her stable manners were fab until dentist now it’s like having a different horse and it’s my own fault I should of pushed for sedation.

Don't beat yourself up about it. I can tell you truthfully that I once put my 8 month colt in for surgery and he returned an utter dislodged, illogical, dangerous psychopath. He remained that way for years and was completely dangerous to the point I was going to have him shot. I have never experienced such a devastating situation with a horse before.

Now, he is a different horse, mostly back to his pre operation self. There is hope.