Horse being left unchecked in stable

[Anon1357]

Regular poster but using another username.

We’ve had a new livery arrive 2 weeks ago. Since the livery has arrived the horse is stabled 247 on matts only and the owner is only coming up once a day. When they come up they do spend a few hours up the yard (2/3 hours at times) but then the horse is left until they come up the next day and often has no hay in the mornings and the livery doesn’t turn up until the afternoon.

Other liveries have offered to fed the horse and give it a haynet in the morning but they’ve been turned down.

It’s been reported to the ym who’s not horsey and as they see the person coming up for a couple of hours they seem to accept it even though we’ve tried to explain that leaving a horse unattended for so long is unacceptable.

There’s no reason the horse can’t be turned out, it’s not on box rest.

All the other liveries are quite upset by the situation. We’re considering reporting to WHW, horse does currently look in a healthy condition so would we be overreacting? I would like to give the livery a chance to resolve but with the ym manager not willing to raise it with the livery it’s made for a very awkward situation.

Any advice greatly appreciated

 

[AmyMay]

YM has a duty of care. If they don’t act, call WHW.

 

[Anon1357]

YM has a duty of care. If they don’t act, call WHW.

Thank you, I think we may have to sadly as I’ve spoken to ym twice and others have shared their views but they won’t speak to the livery about it, just didn’t want to be overreacting.

 

[Goldenstar]

You need to have to talk with the Yoer explain what is meant by duty of care .
It’s ridiculous behaviour by the owner .

 

[ycbm]

Report it, definitely. WHW were very quick to respond to an online report I did last year.
.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would report it I would probably speak to the livery as well its not acceptable and I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut unfortunately, I can't stand being on a yard where people don't care for there horses it makes me really miserable and angry ?

 

[Anon1357]

Thanks everyone. I’m going to speak to the YO tomorrow as don’t seem to be getting anywhere with the YM and explain the situation and what I’ll have to do if the livery doesn’t buck their ideas up.

I would speak to the livery direct but know I wouldn’t be able to keep emotion out of it I’ll just rage at them if they start coming out with excuses

 

[HorseMaid]

Can you ask them why it's not turned out, and if there's not a reason for it not to go out... Put it out? I don't even think this is extreme either!

 

[AmyMay]

Thanks everyone. I’m going to speak to the YO tomorrow as don’t seem to be getting anywhere with the YM and explain the situation and what I’ll have to do if the livery doesn’t buck their ideas up.

I would speak to the livery direct but know I wouldn’t be able to keep emotion out of it I’ll just rage at them if they start coming out with excuses

You need to tread a little bit carefully. Yes speak to the YO. Explain your concerns etc. But I wouldn’t tell them you’ll be calling the authorities- that’s a sure fire way to be given your marching orders.

 

[Widgeon]

Can you ask them why it's not turned out, and if there's not a reason for it not to go out... Put it out? I don't even think this is extreme either!

I'd also try to talk to them first and work out why this strange situation is going on. Is it ignorance of some sort? Lack of funds for hay and bedding? I'd definitely at least try to get to the bottom of the reasons before reporting it. Obviously if the owner is uncommunicative or refuses to engage then you don't have much choice but to report.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Sadly, this sounds like quite a few owners I know over here at more than one yard. I'm still gobsmacked as to why people think (well, they don't think) a horse wants to or should live this way. We can't really report it here because if the horse is alive, blinking, and not emaciated, no one cares, and it's not hugely uncommon so is almost a bit "normalized" in some cases, or just plain ignored.

If the owner and the YO can't be reasoned with/if you get nowhere and there is an authority that would take action, the yes, I'd report it.

 

[Kaylum]

Its the landowner's legal responsibility to make sure the welfare of the horse is met.
I would presume the horse is in quarantine so cannot be turned out yet?

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...ls-on-your-property-that-you-dont-own.735989/

 

[scats]

I bought a horse off someone who used to come down in the evening at about 7pm, tie the horse up to muck it out and then chuck it back in for the next 24 hours. It never went out in winter and just stood in, being checked once a day. Concerned liveries were giving it water in the mornings because it never had any left. The owner genuinely thought that was an acceptable way to keep a horse.
I ended up offering some money for it and they sold it to me.
The first day I had him, I turned him out with my other horse and he cantered around and played for hours. I’ve never seen a horse so happy to be able to be a horse.

 

[meleeka]

WHW won’t do anything if it’s not thin. When you think about it, what they are doing isn’t harming the horse. Somebody is checking on it (liveries) and they presumably muck it out and feed it. It might be worth mentioning to them what time the hay runs out and suggest that they give more. They obviously don’t think they are doing anything wrong as they have a long visit when they do come (I have an acquaintance like this who really doesn’t get why it’s so wrong).

 

[Sealine]

You could try contacting our local BHS Welfare Adviser

The info on this page specifically states 'Horses should not be kept stabled 24/7 and should be adequately exercised or turned out. The only exception for a horse to be kept stabled is when instructed to do so by a vet. '

https://www.bhs.org.uk/our-work/welfare/report-a-welfare-concern

 

[asmp]

I'd also try to talk to them first and work out why this strange situation is going on. Is it ignorance of some sort? Lack of funds for hay and bedding? I'd definitely at least try to get to the bottom of the reasons before reporting it. Obviously if the owner is uncommunicative or refuses to engage then you don't have much choice but to report.

Although I don’t agree with how the horse is kept, the post above is a good one. I was once on a German livery yard where the British owner of a horse was ill and not visiting. I couldn’t understand that why their horse was being kept on a dirty bed (the yard put down bedding for us) and very nearly gave it some clean straw. Turned out the horse was prone to colic and it was kept that way to stop it eating the bed. I could have made things worse by trying to help.

 

[Kaylum]

You could try contacting our local BHS Welfare Adviser

The info on this page specifically states 'Horses should not be kept stabled 24/7 and should be adequately exercised or turned out. The only exception for a horse to be kept stabled is when instructed to do so by a vet. '

https://www.bhs.org.uk/our-work/welfare/report-a-welfare-concern

When a horse is in quarantine i.e. just arrived on the yard I would not expect it to be turned out straightaway with others in the field unless there is a field it can go without others around. It should still be fed and looked after properly. So no the only exception is not instructed by a vet.

 

[Birker2020]

Regular poster but using another username.

We’ve had a new livery arrive 2 weeks ago. Since the livery has arrived the horse is stabled 247 on matts only and the owner is only coming up once a day. When they come up they do spend a few hours up the yard (2/3 hours at times) but then the horse is left until they come up the next day and often has no hay in the mornings and the livery doesn’t turn up until the afternoon.

Other liveries have offered to fed the horse and give it a haynet in the morning but they’ve been turned down.

It’s been reported to the ym who’s not horsey and as they see the person coming up for a couple of hours they seem to accept it even though we’ve tried to explain that leaving a horse unattended for so long is unacceptable.

There’s no reason the horse can’t be turned out, it’s not on box rest.

All the other liveries are quite upset by the situation. We’re considering reporting to WHW, horse does currently look in a healthy condition so would we be overreacting? I would like to give the livery a chance to resolve but with the ym manager not willing to raise it with the livery it’s made for a very awkward situation.

Any advice greatly appreciated

How sad for the horse. It is not having its immediate needs met and it will go on to get ulcers if it doesn't have adequate access to forage.

 

[GreyDot]

First port of call should be to talk directly to the owner of the horse, surely?

 

[Birker2020]

The first day I had him, I turned him out with my other horse and he cantered around and played for hours. I’ve never seen a horse so happy to be able to be a horse.

That is so nice. He landed on his feet with you by the sounds of it.

 

[dorsetladette]

Is the owner knowledgeable? if a novice owner they may think this is normal horse care.
Might be worth finding out why they moved? and what set up they came from.

 

[Birker2020]

When a horse is in quarantine i.e. just arrived on the yard I would not expect it to be turned out straightaway with others in the field unless there is a field it can go without others around. It should still be fed and looked after properly. So no the only exception is not instructed by a vet.

All horses that arrive on our yard are wormed and then turned out, usually the next day and they are never quarantined.

They are mainly individually paddocked although there are the YO's horses that are out in groups and you can add yours to that if you want.

We are on DIY assisted so it means that we can leave hay in tubs to be thrown over the door f.o.c or turned out or brought in as an extra cost. It doesn't sound like there is that facility on the OP's yard apart from the kindness of other liveries.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thing is having the horse turned out all day will at least save you money on bedding and hay, yet people would rather have them standing in wet filthy bedding rather than turn them out, at least the horse can come back to a nice dry clean bed as you don't use as much I just don't get it?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Thing is having the horse turned out all day will at least save you money on bedding and hay, yet people would rather have them standing in wet filthy bedding rather than turn them out, at least the horse can come back to a nice dry clean bed as you don't use as much I just don't get it?

I have said this so many times. I hate cleaning the stable of a horse that stays in. It's more work and whatnot.

It's like, some people think horses are just some toy that they can take out of the box and play with when the mood strikes. It's weird.

 

[Widgeon]

Thing is having the horse turned out all day will at least save you money on bedding and hay, yet people would rather have them standing in wet filthy bedding rather than turn them out, at least the horse can come back to a nice dry clean bed as you don't use as much I just don't get it?

I completely agree but some people don't seem to think like that. Mine is out all the time and when his hay was blowing around in the wind one friend suggested I bring him in to save the cost of wasted hay (her horses have regular "duvet days"). I pointed out that this would involve at least three bales of straw, me having to muck out, and the horse having to stand alone in a box for hours while his mates all hid under their hedges. I prefer just chucking more hay at him outside!

 

[Kaylum]

All horses that arrive on our yard are wormed and then turned out, usually the next day and they are never quarantined.

They are mainly individually paddocked although there are the YO's horses that are out in groups and you can add yours to that if you want.

We are on DIY assisted so it means that we can leave hay in tubs to be thrown over the door f.o.c or turned out or brought in as an extra cost. It doesn't sound like there is that facility on the OP's yard apart from the kindness of other liveries.

Well I suppose some yards don't even insist on a strangles test before letting a new horse in. Biosecurity is so important and I have no idea why its not a yard policy. Its how flu is spread so easily. Horses being bought with false passports or no passports saying they have been vaccinated and they havent. Its shocking that YO aren't protecting the horses already on the yard. There is a well known dealer near us gets them in one day the next day they are up for sale. No quarantine done its just a quick turn around. To turn a blind eye to biosecurity is just irresponsible.

 

[Goldenstar]

Tbh I always wonder why a new horse on the yard is such a strangles risk when horses are going on and off the yard all time .

 

[TotalMadgeness]

Regular poster but using another username.

We’ve had a new livery arrive 2 weeks ago. Since the livery has arrived the horse is stabled 247 on matts only and the owner is only coming up once a day. When they come up they do spend a few hours up the yard (2/3 hours at times) but then the horse is left until they come up the next day and often has no hay in the mornings and the livery doesn’t turn up until the afternoon.

Other liveries have offered to fed the horse and give it a haynet in the morning but they’ve been turned down.

It’s been reported to the ym who’s not horsey and as they see the person coming up for a couple of hours they seem to accept it even though we’ve tried to explain that leaving a horse unattended for so long is unacceptable.

There’s no reason the horse can’t be turned out, it’s not on box rest.

All the other liveries are quite upset by the situation. We’re considering reporting to WHW, horse does currently look in a healthy condition so would we be overreacting? I would like to give the livery a chance to resolve but with the ym manager not willing to raise it with the livery it’s made for a very awkward situation.

Any advice greatly appreciated

What an unpleasant way for a horse to live. Mats only no bedding? Even with a colic prone horse there are bedding options. Standing with no forage for a huge amount of time? Surely that's asking for ulcers (amongst other things). I take it the horse has an automatic water drinker because I'd also be concerned about water.

Unfortunately I've seen this too many times at livery yards and it breaks my heart. Whether its laziness, ignorance or personal issues who knows but I don't think I could ever go back to such a livery yard!

 

[Leandy]

I can't see that WHW or any other charity will be very interested if the horse is in good condition. Whilst keeping it this way is clearly very far from optimal, if the horse is not distressed, diseased, malnourished or abused, then it isn't really a welfare case. Is the horse exercised whilst the owner is there? Are its feet in good condition? You say there is no reason the horse cannot go out but do you actually know this? You need to be careful of intervening whatever your intentions if you don't know the full facts. Especially if the owner has actually refused help. I'm afraid that trying to educate the owner and also the yard owner as to what is and is not acceptable would seem the only way forward. Really the yard owner should be enforcing higher standards on the liveries if need be. Difficult for other liveries to step back and watch sadly.

 

[Birker2020]

You could say "I hope you don't think we are interfering but I've noticed your horse stays in all the time, does it have an issue where it can't go out?"

Surely then the owner might have a chance to open up about why they don't turn out. I know there are some people that 'don't like mud' and seem to think that the horse is happy enough in, but that is what they want to believe because it suits there circumstances. In the previous example with my last horse only out two hours a day, it wasn't ideal but at least it gave some turnout option.

I had this conversation about turnout with my YO the other day. One of her horses has done very well with the pro rider and he's got to a decent level of eventing. We were talking about turnout and she said no way would she ever stop hers going out and I said "what if you got ** to four star for Badminton, or Blenheim and she said "don't care, he's a horse and he will always go out" and I had to agree with her. Sadly, we can only sit by and watch as they gallop around like loonies and hope they don't hurt themselves in the mud but if we can't let a horse can't be a horse then we don't really deserve the privilege of owning one.

I know there are exceptions to the rule but very few.