Horse collapsing whilst being tacked- video

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Isnt it normal practice to stretch the legs out after doing the girth up anyway??

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No I haven't done this either after the problems with my mare, that's what seemed to bring it on! I think if you are doing the girth up tight enough for them to need stretching you are doing the girth up too tight. You see far too many people overgirthing and it's a pet hate of mine!
 
things that crossed my mind...

Has the saddle been checked by someone you really trust/recommended/qualified. Get peoples opinions on saddle fitting.

Has his back been checked for any pain injury, all the way along his spine including quarters and hips?

Do warm up prior to taking up or does he just stand to get brushes, how long do you brush for if so?

You should try a girth with either a full elastic insert or elstic at both side. Don't try human girth or ones that claim to stretch the whole way through, they are not as comfortable.

I would put the saddle on and not girth up or girth up so loose there is no effort getting the girth on the straps (not always possible depending on girth length. Wlak him round and see what he does.

Buy a breast plate so you can ride with a loose girth for as long as you need to. don't go for a 2 point get a proper breat girth that will totally stabilise the saddle and can take the pressue.

My boy had a cold back (I swear if anyone starts on the no such thing as a cold back I might scream
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) he had kidney problems which made taking a saddle and rider uncomfortable at first, the vet though it might be a pins and needle effect.

To tack him up he got the saddle on and stod for a couple of minute, girthed up super loosely and breat plate on. I would finsih tacking up thenput the girth up one hole. Walk him in hand to the school. Put girth up another hole. Walk him in school. Put girth up another hole. Lunge for a couple of minute. girth up. lunge then girth again. wlak him then get on really really slowly, usually belly over for him to take a few steps (mainly incase he bronced) I would then walk him for at least 10 minutes before asking for any proper work, usually a working walk then onto left lead canter to get him properly warmed up (it was his right kidney that hurt so he found this lead easier) it was a farce but it worked for him. It was that or the bullet as he was no field ornament
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When hes got back off the floor your voice and actions (ie patting) are praising him. Please dont take this the wrong way but its like a trick? Just my opinion, probably a rubbish one!!!!!!
 
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You see far too many people overgirthing and it's a pet hate of mine!

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Quite agree it makes me cringe! Also if you girth is catching the skin behind their elbows chances are your saddle is too far forward OR you need to use the back to girth straps!
 
He doesn't look distressd in his face or panicky, wonder what he would do in a western saddle with a cinch, or a polo girthing setup,
 
I always stretch the front legs out when I do up the girth before I get on, it is habit with me. It irons out any wrinkles in the skin behind the elbow and it settles the saddle on the back.
 

"He'd had the saddle on done up loosely for a few minutes, and I was thinking of taking it off him as he wasn't going to go down, but then thought I'd do it up tightly one last time before "giving up", so it wasn't tightened quickly at all. "

Sorry, took so long to type my reply you had already explained this! That said, if he does have a bit of a mental block with his girth any 'quick' movement will trigger a reaction regardless of how long the saddle had been on.

Re;types of girth it may be worth giving this one a try- http://www.aerborn.co.uk/HorseHome.htm (or similar) They are very soft and flexible and since having a severly cold back TB are now the only girths I tend to use (and they are cheap too
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Nando- which girth on that page do you mean, will look into getting one, especially as they are cheap
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Having come away from the vets, and then the yard, this morning in a complete funk worrying like mad about his actions I am now feeling a lot more positive that it is not as bad as I thought it could be...... thanks guys! Wish I'd made this video weeks ago before all the vets bills
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Have you ever tried putting a bareback pad on him, they have girths but there is no way they can't fit that would eliminate the saddle itself but it isn't weighty.
 
A horse on our yard does a similar thing. I've seen her go down and be totally away with the fairies for like half a minute before snapping out of it and scrambling up. That was with a rider on too.
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She did go to newmarket years ago, as along with the saddling issue she also has an awkward action behind. After extensive tests it came up with something neurological and the vets advised writing off. The horse has since evented at riding club and intro level, but the owner follows a strict routine tacking up, the day I saw her collapse it was with a new rider. She's also sometimes not really sound behind but after bute and a couple of days off, she's ok again.

I don't think anyone really understands it, but my point is that sometimes it is manageable.
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I would try this girth

http://www.horseloverz.co.uk/Aerborn-Waffle-Atherstone-Girth-pr-349252.html

I use them on all of mine.

If you are willing to spend more I have also heard good things about these ones but I have never 'needed' one so have never tried it

http://www.horseloverz.co.uk/Wintec-Elastic-Girth-with-Cair-pr-318432.html

From the video I would also say he did it voluntary, he almost looked like he was looking for the right spot to go down in.

I would love you to keep us updated on this as I have never seen anything like it before, I would be very interested if a simple thing like stretching his legs forward makes a difference.
 
Flame, he has also started moving funny behind, not tracking up properly, and this morning after he went down he could hardly move coming out of the stable. I put it down to him being a bt stiff from dropping down? Bone scan did show a bit of spavin in his hocks though too... (but apparently 90% of horses show this in a bone scan)
 
I can't see the video as am at work but from what other people have said I thought it might be worth pointing out that Blitz has learnt how to stretch himself.

When he first started doing it I sh1t myself and yelled for Mr Worried but he very casually said he had done it a couple of times before , we are all used to it now.

He crosses his front leg over the other, draws his leg up and literally rocks back so he is almost laying down. Sometimes he then swaps legs and does it again.

For him he is clearly releasing something, it is quite so and deliberate though rather than a sudden drop.
 
I had an ex advanced eventer on loan and he did something similar. Vet diagnosed as narclopsy, he did it when we tacked him up or when he was stood on the yard but he would look like he had fallen asleep. The vet could clap loud right in his face and there was no reaction at all.
Yours seems to be well aware of what is happening so I would say it is different?
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Can't watch the vid cos I'm at work & haven't read all the replies. My friends horse had a real issue with girthing and when he was scoped they found really bad ulcers. I have heard of this elsewhere too - pain/bad reaction to girthing can be a symptom of ulcers.
 
do you always girth up on the same side???

id lean to wards a nerve being trapped and the horse reacting towards it.

if not around the girth area id be looking at the withers and behind the shoulders.
 
I used to ride a horse that did exactly the same thing. He would fret when the girth was being done up and go down on his knees, on the concrete
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It turned out that the saddle's tree had broken and was digging into him but even after it was replaced, he still fainted when you put the saddle on him. So worth getting your saddle checked.

I would recommend getting a heart rate monitor from your vet and put it on him in the stable. Then get the saddle out so he can see it. Then put the saddle on. Then girth up. If he is afraid/in pain, his heart rate will shoot up. This is a bit like someone who is afraid of the sight of blood or needles - their heart rate goes up and up and up and then they faint. The horse I knew, his heart rate went through the roof as soon as you got the saddle out.

I have also seen a narcoleptic hunter but it looked quite different to yours. Yours seems a bit anxious before he goes down, like he knows something's going to happen.

ETS:- what we did with the horse, was to girth him up very very loosely in the stable, take him out into the field or school and do the girth up one hole at a time, walking a 20m circle in hand between each tightening. He's always going to be a bit iffy about it but he's much better now and hasn't fallen over for about 3 years now.
 
A friend TB used to do something similar, he was very thin skinned. One problem was his saddle was pinching and also the girth. She got him a new shaped girth one of the soft atherstone type ones, she always stretch his legs out even when girth only on loosely and walked him a circle round the yard before tightening it more ver gently, all these are worth a try and have probably been suggested before.
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What an fascinating thread (not to take away from the worrying issue, mind).

I think the horse is fully aware at the time of dropping - and in this case it looks quite deliberate. I agree with the observation that your reaction to him getting up could be interpreted (if this scenario occurred exactly like this every time) as you praising his actions.

Have you tried strong distractions at girthing-up - a large and tasty feed treat or exaggerated dispensing of Polos (much wrapper rustling and so on)?

I will be watching this with great interest! I hope you get some answers. I really don't think narcolepsy as you don't mention it happening at any other time.
 
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Isnt it normal practice to stretch the legs out after doing the girth up anyway??

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No I haven't done this either after the problems with my mare, that's what seemed to bring it on! I think if you are doing the girth up tight enough for them to need stretching you are doing the girth up too tight. You see far too many people overgirthing and it's a pet hate of mine!

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Not necessarily, alot of ponies are quite fleshy around that area (I know our shetland is) and sometimes the fit of the saddlle on a pony means the girth sits that few cms more foward than it would on a horse. I don't always 'need' to stretch the leg out, but was taught to do so and so do out of habit.
Incidently, ours wears one of these saddle pads with a canvas girth and the other week after daughter saddled him he was really naughty. Next day i noticed a small sore in the girth area, which may, or may not have been as a result of his flesh being pinched. He was a little difficult to girth when we got him, but recently has been much better and I wonder if, in the past his girth has pinched him as a result of him not being stretched out? As i say, he is quite fleshy in that area.
 
I was always taught to stretch out their legs - but that was in the day when those horrendous string girths and subsequent girth galls were fairly common. Personally I would only stretch out on a horse that was unfit upto hacking fit. Anything hunting fit etc would not need it imo (for what it counts
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Nothing more to add to the already great advice - would be interested to hear updates though
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A few ideas/ what happens if;

you use a different treed saddle?

you use a treeless saddle?

you use a roller?

You use a lunge line around his barrel, no saddle, to pretend to girth up with? You need one with a large clip to thread the length through, then hold the pressure.

Just an observation, but you saddle looks quite high in front, could it be a bit narrow for him (especialy as you say he's muscled up)?

What xrays has the vet done? Has he checked his sternum and all his ribs etc

I hope you get him sorted out
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Highly unlikely to be Narcolepsy. With that they go down with a bang and sleep! One of the carriage Horses in my pics had this. Happened if he was left tied up any length of time. We had to be carefull with him standing outside churches and keep waking him up. I would be tempted to have him checked by an equine bowen therapist or a an equine physio. Maybe he has a trapped nerve or something like that in the girth area and he's doing it to try and relieve the pain? Although he's not reacting while you are doing it up he doesn't look 100% happy either.

As for girths, is it elastic on only one side? Physio types tend to say avoid these as they cause uneven pressure. If you use elastic best to be triple thickness and both ends. I would then go for the thickest wool girth sleeve you can find, and an anatomically shaped girth as well. A stud girth may help too.

Definately try a bowen or physio though. Vets aren't always the best for these things (no offence, but been there with a back issue on a previous Horse).
 
I am so glad you posted this as my section D is exactly the same.
Saddle goes on, girth goes up, Lennox goes down.
Only on the front end too. As you say, when he first did it I was at panic stations, now i'm totally used to it and just get my feet out of the way.
To be honest, your horse doesn't look in pain, and certainly isn't panicking. Identical to Lennox.
My vet/ physio/ saddler etc has checked him all over and found nothing.
At the end of the day, my theory is that he's not in pain, not doing any damage, and fine after so i just let him get on with it.
Obviously if your boy is suffering other issues as a result of the "going down" then definitely pursue it. But as i said, from the video, he looks like he is voluntarily going down and getting back up in quite a relaxed manner and doesn't look like he's suffering. Though having said that, I am not a vet and am only talking from experiences with my lad so you should o with your gut instinct.
Sorry to ramble on, but I just want you to know that you're not on your own.
I'll see if I can get a vid of my lad doing it and post over the weekend.
 
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OP, when this happens, do you normally remove the saddle and not ride, or do you wait until he is up and then ride?
 
I'd definitely try a roller or a different saddle. I would say nerve as he stumbles slightly before getting down to 'stretch'. My old boy had nerve damage & he would stumble like that when he got up from lying down. I hope you resolve it as it's not nice for either of you.
 
What an unusual problem I've never seen a horse do this. I hope you find a way around it as he looks like a lovely horse in good shape!

Just an aside I always stretch the front legs of a horse after tightening girth I thought this was normal practice??? Although I think it comes from the string girth days when you were essentially making sure skin was not caught.
 
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