horse communicators and reason out the window

Beausmate I do not believe in God either despite being brought up in a fairly devote catholic family. I think there was a very powerful, charismatic preacher in history called Jesus though & his teachings & a whole lot of Chinese whispers became the bible.
I shunned religion at a fairly young age as I was seeing too much bigotry thinly veiled as faith.
I also don't believe in faith healing, homeopathy, the Loch Ness Monster, ghosts, tarot cards, palm reading, that the MMR vaccine causes autism, fairies,angels or unicorns.

I do think that hypnotherapy is a powerful tool, that there is some evidence that acupuncture helps certain conditions & some herbal remedies are powerful medicines
 
Oh & the things that I say I believe in are all things I've read researched evidence for. Although there was some debate on the acupuncture & placebo effect.
 
This thread has fascinated me, ive always been one of the 'not sure which side i sit on' types with this sort of thing. And fairly recently i had a reading with a medium/clairvoyant- partly out of curiosity and the fact ive lost a lot of family members etc and maybe wanted some comfort? I was blown away by my experience personally, and had thought there was no way this lady could have done any prior 'digging' about me etc, i with held my number when i called to make a booking and i only gave my first name etc.
Ive have now googled 'cold reading' and read with interest! But i have to say that i honestly dont see how this was dobe to me?? The accuracy of the things this lady came out with was crazy- and it wasnt like she kept pausing and waiting for clues from my body language- she litterally just blurt out a name and several facts about that person :S
If someone can tell me more in depth how this lady could possibly have got this information from my body language, i would be genuinely very open to listen to them!! :D
 
I was once working at a yard where one of the liveries had a Reiki lady to her horse. This woman blatantly didn't know what she was doing. She walked past one of the other staffs horses and declared that she had Cystitis in her bowel, and she knew because the horse had told her.....righto.
Funny kind of Reiki too, the poor client hadn't got a clue that Reiki isn't anything to do with communication!
 
I have had my horses 'spoken' too and I truely believe that there is something in it. Just because they don't speak the same language doesn't mean that they can't communicate. I think people have to be open minded about things. My chaps said things that the person could not have known. One of my horses was owned from weaning and bred by a friend so I knew the complete history. :0)
 
Ellemoo this video is great place to start http://youtu.be/idVxRE8uM-A

In terms of the firing out facts it's called 'fishing' & I would bet (oh Crikey should I use that phrase again!) the lady fired out a large amount of facts but your memory has only highlighted the ones that were relevant. I've said it before & I'll say it again falling for psychology techniques which recreate psychic ability is not any sort of reflection on you.
I'm wondering when you had your reading did the lady honestly say
'I'm getting the name John, he was your grandfather, he died when he was 97, he used to drive a blue car with the registration number w123 sdp. He lived at 74 blossom road. He died from pancreatic cancer'
Or was is more like
'I'm getting the name John' - you possibly admit it was your grandfather. Now the telling thing is you would probably say he 'was' your grandfather so reader knows he is dead
He was old when he passed wasn't he?
I'm seeing the colour blue related to him & something to do with a garden or possibly flowers. I'm sensing he passed with some problem relating to his chest or his abdomen.
 
Booboos said:
It doesn't annoy me at all. Why would your irrational beliefs annoy me? That's a surprising amount of importance you accord to your beliefs.

Don't confuse what you can do with what you should do. Of course you can hold silly beliefs, of course you can post them online and refuse to engage with people who disagree with you...whether you should be doing any of these things is another matter.
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Hmmm....so its only your beliefs that are important then? And mine are silly. Nice.

How am I not engaging with you? By simply not allowing you to brow-beat me into submission?

I've had certain experiences. I'm not alone in that.
I'm not going into details on here so you can attempt to belittle me further.

Can I explain them? No...there was no scientific explanation.
Can I prove them....Not at all.
Did they happen...yes, they did. Most certainly.

No...I don't believe in god as an entity. I believe there is more in this world than can be currently proved by science.

My occupation practices evidence based research....I'm not a loony running around talking to trees....

Its no wonder that people tend not to speak up when they have an inexplicable experience......

I will not be commenting on this thread again.
 
Glamourpuss- sorry i cant quote as im on my phone. Ill give an example of one of the things she said: "theres a lovely lady with a short bob hair cut, she says her name is *name here*, she died from cancer, she wants you all to know shes ok, and she enjoys spending time with you when your with the horses"
What about my body language could have been saying that to her??
Just going to look at the link you posted now :)
 
YorksG said:
Just another thought, over time there have been many things that have not been provable by 'science', but people had sufficiently open minds to explore the possibility that they may still be true.
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There's a flaw in this logic. The flaw being that we have the means to test psychic ability - by getting psychics in and testing their ability to read objects, photos, people etc and seeing how often they get it right. In every attempt to show psychic ability of this nature under controlled conditions, there has been no psychic ability demonstrated. i.e. we can test it, and every test thus far has shown that it doesn't exist. Completely different to not being able to demonstrate microbiotic life forms, because you don't have sufficiently magnifying microscopes.

Science can't explain psychics, just as science has struggled to explain physical, chemical and biological phenomena in the past (and will continue to). The difference is, when we test for these phenomena, we can show that they must happen (think of Pasteur's experiments proving the presence of micro organisms, long before we could see them under a microscope). Yet every attempt to show psychic ability has yielded zilch. That's the difference.

Flame_ said:
Doesn't everybody watch the mentalist?
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I prefer Psych :cool:

Hippona said:
Sorry....i was cooking when I typed that. Meant to say......people believed the world to be FLAT.....and that you dropped off the edge. One day it was proved otherwise.....
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As far as I'm aware, that is an extremely common urban myth. The ancient Greeks wrote about the Earth being spherical, as did the Romans.
 
JFTD the testing thing is the big thing. Derren Brown responded to claims that there may be some frauds but there are also those with a gift. He said in that case just as we need to protect ourselves from dodgy plumbers people should be able to protect themselves from the fraud psychics. He wanted to create a testing procedure & then a register of psychics. He even said he would promote the ones on the register. Now given how big his TV show is that would be an amazing opportunity for anyone.

As yet not a single psychic has put themselves forward to the register.

One of the biggest psychics in the country Sally Morgan has been invited to kick start the scheme. This is a woman who has sell out shows & has written books on the subject. Surely she MUST be one of the real psychics, no?
To this day she still hasn't presented herself for testing even though she has been told she can change the test to however she prefers her 'gift' to work.
Very telling.

Ellemoo if that is exactly how she said it then I would suspect 'hot reading' this is when someone has direct information in you. The Internet, google, Facebook, Twitter & Forums make this job *much* easier now a days :)
 
YorksG said:
Do the 'scientists' on this thread believe there is diagnosable illness of schizophrenia?
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I believe there have been diagnoses of schizophrenia.

There is a difference, though, between specific scientific issues, and broad principles of science. It's the theory of science which posters on this thread have been trying to explain in the context of a broad question (do ACs have psychic power).

I don't really see how the issues with diagnosis of complex neurological disorders such as schizophrenia have to do with it. Yes, scientific opinion regarding mental illness has changed, however there is a difference between a phenomenon which was observed and the causation misattributed, and a phenomenon which cannot be reliably observed under controlled conditions.
 
Gloi said:
I'm not into this 'believing' lark. I like solid peer reviewed proof.
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Nice post. :) Direct and straight to the point, and I agree with it.

It doesn't mean I don't have a mind which isn't open to possibilities. But someone elses' story of "a weird thing which happened to me" doesn't stack up as evidence, sorry. :rolleyes: I would need much, much more solid evidence under controlled conditions to take it seriously.

For this reason I don't believe in God, or anything else I can't see any evidence of.
 
glamourpuss said:
Beausmate I do not believe in God either despite being brought up in a fairly devote catholic family. I think there was a very powerful, charismatic preacher in history called Jesus though & his teachings & a whole lot of Chinese whispers became the bible.
I shunned religion at a fairly young age as I was seeing too much bigotry thinly veiled as faith.
I also don't believe in faith healing, homeopathy, the Loch Ness Monster, ghosts, tarot cards, palm reading, that the MMR vaccine causes autism, fairies,angels or unicorns.

I do think that hypnotherapy is a powerful tool, that there is some evidence that acupuncture helps certain conditions & some herbal remedies are powerful medicines
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This but change "catholic" for "greek orthodox".
 
I used to be an atheist, but now am an agnostic as I see the concept of a God as an innately unscientific question (we can't test whether there is a God, as we can't exclude the possibility of different planes of existence so we can't ever answer that question). So, whilst I see no evidence for a God, and choose not to believe in one, I accept that I cannot prove or "know" there is no such thing, thus I am an atheistic agnostic.
 
Science cannot explain how the bodies of some Catholic saints remain incorrupt after death. Some saints, even hundreds of years later look as though they are asleep and smell of a sweet odour.

Does this mean that unless logic and reason can explain it, it does not exist ?
 
FionaM12 said:
*raises eyes at the offering of the DM as a source of information.* :rolleyes:
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I was going to put a link to the Telegraph article, but it was easier at the time to just link to the Daily Mail instead.

But obviously I am just a thicko tabloid reader who will believe anything.

There are some sanctimonious b*tches on this thread. Glad I do not have to endure you in RL.
 
horserider said:
Science cannot explain how the bodies of some Catholic saints remain incorrupt after death. Some saints, even hundreds of years later look as though they are asleep and smell of a sweet odour.

Does this mean that unless logic and reason can explain it, it does not exist ?
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no, if they exist and they are in such a state, they can be observed - and observation is the first pillar of science. If science can't explain how they're in that condition, there is no reason to dispute the observation - science will just say we don't have a good explanation yet, religion will attribute a relgious explanation. If science can't come up with a corporeal explanation, then people have the option of believing there's a scientific reason we don't know yet, or that the religious explanation is true.

I don't know anything about the specifics of incorrupt saints though - never looked at any of the evidence - scientific or otherwise. However, the point is that science has repeatedly tried and failed to observe psychics actually performing psychic activity, rather than that we can't explain how it happens. That said, a new study could start tomorrow and change that - as is always the way with science - and actually demonstrate psychic activity. Then we'd have to start looking for an explanation! It seems unlikely though when the most succesful of those who call themselves psychic are so reluctant to prove their own skills.



btw, telegraph's not much better than the mail in science circles. Peer reviewed journals are where it's at :)
 
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Serephin said:
I was going to put a link to the Telegraph article, but it was easier at the time to just link to the Daily Mail instead.

But obviously I am just a thicko tabloid reader who will believe anything.

There are some sanctimonious b*tches on this thread. Glad I do not have to endure you in RL.
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You are quite entitled to your opinion of me, Serephin. Even though you don't know me. :D

You are even more entitled to your stated opinion of yourself, who you of course know much better. ;):p
 
FionaM12 said:
You are quite entitled to your opinion of me, Serephin. Even though you don't know me. :D

You are even more entitled to your stated opinion of yourself, who you of course know much better. ;):p
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indeed.

*leaves thread to converse with the fairies*
 
Booboos said:
There is some really interesting research on how the proliferation of ideas via the internet has actually resulted in people who will believe anything as they lack the skills (and will?) to critically assess the source of the information. Have you come across the tree-octopus study?
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No - I'd missed that one but thanks for the steer, have now genned up on Google - quite funny. These hoaxes were reserved for April Fools at one time like the BBC's spagetti trees and the flooding caused by a crash involving a lorry loaded with dehydreated water tablets!!!

My own lads watch a programme with Prof Stephen Hawkin recently - said they sort of understood Black Holes - then proceeded to ask me about equal and opposite White Holes - where would you start???

I've just met a prospective client who doesn't "believe" in the Moon landings!!!
 
Is schizophrenia a complex neurological disorder? Not as far as I am aware. There is an observed cluster of symptoms, which may or may not be neurological in origin (we do not know, as we do not have the ability to test for this). Not all people with the diagnosis of schizophrenia will display the same symptoms and there is emerging evidence that the diagnosis is in fact over used and that some of the symptoms in the cluster could be as a result of other disease. There was a time though when people in the scientific community had 'proved' the existance of 'schizophrenia', knew its location in the brain and surgically 'removed' the schizophrenia (leucotomy, performed in UK into the 1980's). That peer reviewed proof has since been disproved, to accept only that which has current scientific 'proof', shows a degree of concrete thinking, which indicates a very closed mind.
 
1stclassalan said:
No - I'd missed that one but thanks for the steer, have now genned up on Google - quite funny. These hoaxes were reserved for April Fools at one time like the BBC's spagetti trees and the flooding caused by a crash involving a lorry loaded with dehydreated water tablets!!!

My own lads watch a programme with Prof Stephen Hawkin recently - said they sort of understood Black Holes - then proceeded to ask me about equal and opposite White Holes - where would you start???

I've just met a prospective client who doesn't "believe" in the Moon landings!!!
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Sadly, my ex-husband is a bit of a victim of all the internet conspiracy theories etc. :( He has mental health issues and lives on the edge of reality at the best of times. Now he believes there are seven species of aliens (very precise, yes, seven) living among us and is obsessed with this "fact" and many others freely available on the internet.

I also knew someone who became convinced the American space program was all a hoax, moon landings included. He had a stack of "evidence" from the internet.
 
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