piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
Thanks the one I have now got saved is on here.
Also just leaned that horse ashes are 16-20kg.
Horse Cremation important information.
- Thread starter ILuvCowparsely
- Start date
Thanks the one I have now got saved is on here.
Also just leaned that horse ashes are 16-20kg.
Grumpy Herbert
Well-Known Member
I had my lad cremated 8 years ago, but didn't get a certificate or any paperwork from the crematorium - is this a fairly new thing or should I have had one? I didn't ask for any ashes back, I just wanted to know what was done with his body and that he was dealt with sympathetically. I have to say, the chap who turned up to collect my boy couldn't have been nicer - he had tears in his eyes when my horse was pts and was very sensitive and tactful.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
GH
I never got paperwork from my bonnie or from my first mare, though she was 1995 and I don't know they were around then.
Bonnie was 2007 so I should have got something then but did not and it was the same company then too.
I never got paperwork from my bonnie or from my first mare, though she was 1995 and I don't know they were around then.
Bonnie was 2007 so I should have got something then but did not and it was the same company then too.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
I hope this thread helps others to choose the right company for their loved ones and no one else gets conned by a cowboy.
I do know this company before the recent owners bought it was respected place.
I do know this company before the recent owners bought it was respected place.
indie999
Well-Known Member
I now just looked to see if Resting horses that I used in Essex are members of the group APPCC and it mentions they are too re Defra and Environment agency. If you google them they have a nice website etc My vet recommended them or Holts. I just needed a removal and disposal and they guy comes with a trailer with Resting horses on the side(I did find it all a bit strange and kind of amusing as I wanted it done discreetly & up trundled this trailer and logo into the field but realised things have changed a lot over the past few years with more options being offered but I cannot imagine the volume of ashes to get rid of if I had them back too). I suppose recommendation is the best way and clearly this thread and bad experience is good education so I hope the bad experience will ensure that this kind of situations dont happen again to anyone else and some good came out of it.
muckypony
Well-Known Member
Also just leaned that horse ashes are 16-20kg.
I had my pony cremated by a company recomended to me by the vets she was with. Her box is beautiful, but it is ridiculously heavy!! It weights about 25kg and I can just about carry it by myself for a short while!!
The people I used didn't ask some of the questions you've said they should, but I felt so respected when they said over the phone 'we can have Zola delivered to the vets or to your house' and she came back with a beautifully engraved name plate too. I just hope they treated her with respect the whole time!!
This isn't the first horror story I've heard about cremations though... These people are disgraceful.
indie999
Well-Known Member
That sounds like my experience too. In fact when the certificate of cremation turned up I had a good old cry all over again but found it strangely amusing too...not sure what I thought really ie was I meant to frame it or something! However a lot of thought has clearly been put into this by the company so good luck to them if they do it well and it helps. Everyone is different. I find it sad that someones much loved pet is just a cash cow for someone. Wonder how they will be dealt with when its their turn. Um.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Leviathan apologies for asking this on your thread but it seems like the right place to ask as you know a lot more about the process, so I'll ask because I have no clue and most other people won't either but if you are saying they cremate the individual horse in the incinerator and then sweep out all of the ashes of that horse to put into a box to send back to the owner, wouldn't this take an inordinate amount of time waiting for the incinerator and the ashes to cool down before putting the ashes into their individual containers? I know with my woodburning stove it takes quite literally hours and hours to cool down and I wouldn't be able to sweep out the ashes in it for at least 36 hours and this is just a little log burner.
Mongoose11
Well-Known Member
Having been witness to my very first pts sleep situation this week (lovely boy Nordic), I have been looking into making some arrangements for my own mare, to know who to call and I am going to be doing a thread on here asking for recommendations in my area shortly. Nordic's owner was very much taken by surprise and although her lovely lad was dispatched quickly and in the best way, I am certain that her not having the numbers to hand may have added to her distress, not the animals. So, this week I have been watching YouTube, I am one of those who likes to know,to be able to picture it etc. The ashes seem to be removed using metal implements, like a squeegee for a car windscreen and scraped into metal containers where they then rest to become cool and the process then continues....
I have always been very sceptical about individual cremation but this showed it being done very 'nicely', every last speck of ash was removed and put into the container. Even when they changed containers they were careful to make sure every bit went in and I am now much more confident about how it works, I just need to find the right place so that if the time ever comes unexpectedly, I am ready.
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**Vanner**
Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry but thank you for the advice.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
That would make sense. So the ashes are scraped out of the incinerator while it's still at full heat into a heat proof container and then the next horse is put in. Sorry
I just couldn't figure out how this could be cost effective for the cremation place, thanks BBHolzdweaver
Well-Known Member
I had my girl Petra cremated as i promised her that she would never leave my side, and keeping her close after death was part of the deal. I havent had any other horse cremated, but she was my horse of a lifetime.
The company i used were very sympathetic, they came to collect her and he was as gentle as he could with her, he even picked her head up so it wouldnt bang on the ramp and placed each leg into the trailer in turn so they wouldnt scrape on the sides. He even stroked her nose when she was inside the trailer with a look in his eyes that only animal lovers are capable of. He was wonderful and even gave me a hug and took time with me when it got a bit much and i burst into tears
I wasnt really capable of actual speech for a few days and he rang and said to come in my own time to pick her up, when i did, i met the boss of the company, it was all a very professional setup, and even explained the procedure to me when i asked (he was a touch surprised i even asked to know the details!) and asked if he could know a bit more about her as she looked such a lovely type and was so striking with her chestnut coat, light flaxen mane and lovely socks and blaze. I must have stayed an hour chatting over a brew and he was truly genuine about it and very interested in her character and quirks, while he told me tales of horses he had loved himself.
I think if anything had gone wrong or if i felt doubts i would have been devastated. Even though i admitted myself that she was gone and it was only her body that remained, if he had once called her an 'it' i think i would have taken his head off his shoulders.
There is such a thing as sympathy, empathy and just good manners with owners even in dealing with bodies of livestock. Anything less in my eyes is just downright appalling and they shouldn't be in that kind of work, if they cant deal with the different emotional needs of their clients.
Also thinking that some low lifes wont even give back the owners their own horses ashes, just for the sake of money, is beyond wrong.
The company i used were very sympathetic, they came to collect her and he was as gentle as he could with her, he even picked her head up so it wouldnt bang on the ramp and placed each leg into the trailer in turn so they wouldnt scrape on the sides. He even stroked her nose when she was inside the trailer with a look in his eyes that only animal lovers are capable of. He was wonderful and even gave me a hug and took time with me when it got a bit much and i burst into tears
I wasnt really capable of actual speech for a few days and he rang and said to come in my own time to pick her up, when i did, i met the boss of the company, it was all a very professional setup, and even explained the procedure to me when i asked (he was a touch surprised i even asked to know the details!) and asked if he could know a bit more about her as she looked such a lovely type and was so striking with her chestnut coat, light flaxen mane and lovely socks and blaze. I must have stayed an hour chatting over a brew and he was truly genuine about it and very interested in her character and quirks, while he told me tales of horses he had loved himself.
I think if anything had gone wrong or if i felt doubts i would have been devastated. Even though i admitted myself that she was gone and it was only her body that remained, if he had once called her an 'it' i think i would have taken his head off his shoulders.
There is such a thing as sympathy, empathy and just good manners with owners even in dealing with bodies of livestock. Anything less in my eyes is just downright appalling and they shouldn't be in that kind of work, if they cant deal with the different emotional needs of their clients.
Also thinking that some low lifes wont even give back the owners their own horses ashes, just for the sake of money, is beyond wrong.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Yes there was a very informative thread about this very thing not very long ago on here but I don't remember who posted it. People could search for it if there's some other things about PTS that they'd like to know.
Mongoose11
Well-Known Member
That would make sense. So the ashes are scraped out of the incinerator while it's still at full heat into a heat proof container and then the next horse is put in. Sorry
Yes, this does seem to be the case, remember the method is very modern now and it isn't like a furnace that is being stoked all day (this sounds really patronising but I had no real idea until I looked into it). It really is turned on and off at the flick of a switch. Apologies if this is tmi for some, I should have perhaps been more coded? I found it very comforting to know what happens but I know some people think differently.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
The cremated remains taken from the cremator consist of skeletal fragments. These are processed through a cremulator which reduces them to a fine ash suitable for return or scattering. The cremulator must be carefully cleaned each time. The ashes are then packed into whichever casket or urn has been chosen. The original label stays with the ashes and is carefully checked against the original cremation request. As a horse is so large the ashes of a horse can weight approximately 16kg – 22kg and the casket is therefore much larger and heavier than that of a human casket or urn.
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Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I know
but it is better that people DO know so that they can make informed choices. That is interesting what you say about the process as I had no idea either because mine get buried or go off with the knacker truck depending on how attached I am to them.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
For those who need to know what questions to ask
You must therefore ask your vet or the equine cremation service specific questions such as:
How will my horse be transported?
Does the equine cremation service have their own cremator?
If not, where will my horse be taken to & is the site appropriately licensed?
How will my horse be stored?
How will they be identified?
Will my horse be the only animal in the chamber during the cremation process and will they be in their entirety?
Will the equine crematorium certify that my horse was on its own during the cremation & that I have received only their ashes?
Will I receive all of my horses ashes?
You must therefore ask your vet or the equine cremation service specific questions such as:
How will my horse be transported?
Does the equine cremation service have their own cremator?
If not, where will my horse be taken to & is the site appropriately licensed?
How will my horse be stored?
How will they be identified?
Will my horse be the only animal in the chamber during the cremation process and will they be in their entirety?
Will the equine crematorium certify that my horse was on its own during the cremation & that I have received only their ashes?
Will I receive all of my horses ashes?
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Anyone wanting to read and keep the complete word document sent from the director pm I will send it.
For now I am signing off this is too upsetting for me
For now I am signing off this is too upsetting for me
piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
For now I am signing off this is too upsetting for me
(((Hugs)))
and thanks for all the information xxx
Black_Horse_White
Well-Known Member
I hope you get your girl back real soon xxx
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
well as per first post after the conversation where my friend had to find out why she had not returned They did return the casket, but no paper work and no proof she was handled with care and its her ashes.
it seems we trust our vets to organise it as its too hard for us to deal with. But leaving it to them you don't know important info which you should know.
Once the horse is collected as the vets say they are compassionate etc. Its after they are collected where the problem starts as per Philip Cooper case.
For those members who do not think of ashes or casket as their horse they do not know for us its important to have the casket and ashes so we reserve the right to put them where we want.
I hope now I have found out all this info it brings to light all questions and proper companies will do your service and (all those poor owners who thought their horses were cremated but Philip rendered them )
eventually there will be no more cowboy's and when you pay a service you will guarantee to get it. anyone else want the word document pm me. I have to send it in two as its long or send me email and i will send it by a file.
some other info is private and i cannot say in an open forum.
Lucia
New User
Leviathan.
I'm so sorry you have had to go through this. It's just horrible.
I still don't know what to do with my 'ashes' (post Cooper trial) as I have no idea what they are. I was told that I shouldn't scatter (I was going to do this as a symbolic thing as 'closure') or bury them as we don't know what they actually are.
I'm so sorry you have had to go through this. It's just horrible.
I still don't know what to do with my 'ashes' (post Cooper trial) as I have no idea what they are. I was told that I shouldn't scatter (I was going to do this as a symbolic thing as 'closure') or bury them as we don't know what they actually are.
Annagain
Well-Known Member
I realise everybody reacts differently and don't want to upset anybody but having gone for an individual cremation when I lost my old boy 8 years ago I'm don't think I would again.
The vet sorted it out for me so there was no hassle in that sense. I don't remember having a certificate but it's not something I've ever thought about until I read this. It's not that I don't care or I don't want to pay, it's just that everything I had planned (scattering half his ashes under his favourite tree in the field and the other half on the common where he loved a good gallop) didn't really help.
My memories of him are what keeps him close to me, not where he is physically. His ashes took a while to come back (I didn't chase it or I might have got them sooner) and I had to wait for his old owner to come back as she wanted to scatter them with me (she only sold him as she had to flee an abusive realtionship and kept in touch. She shouldn't really have come back in case her ex saw her but she did) so by the time I could scatter his ashes, I'd gone through the worst of the grieving and it dragged it all up again just as I was starting get over it. I also felt quite silly carting a big casket across the common to scatter his ashes while a load of kids were playing rugby. We'd planned it for early morning so it would be quiet, but it didn't quite work that way.
I understand how upset you are with this situation, and I do understand why it's important to some, but it won't be to me when it happens again.
Try to focus on all your happy memories with Diamond (maybe get your favourite photo framed or put on a keyring so she's always with you?) rather than this.
((hugs))
The vet sorted it out for me so there was no hassle in that sense. I don't remember having a certificate but it's not something I've ever thought about until I read this. It's not that I don't care or I don't want to pay, it's just that everything I had planned (scattering half his ashes under his favourite tree in the field and the other half on the common where he loved a good gallop) didn't really help.
My memories of him are what keeps him close to me, not where he is physically. His ashes took a while to come back (I didn't chase it or I might have got them sooner) and I had to wait for his old owner to come back as she wanted to scatter them with me (she only sold him as she had to flee an abusive realtionship and kept in touch. She shouldn't really have come back in case her ex saw her but she did) so by the time I could scatter his ashes, I'd gone through the worst of the grieving and it dragged it all up again just as I was starting get over it. I also felt quite silly carting a big casket across the common to scatter his ashes while a load of kids were playing rugby. We'd planned it for early morning so it would be quiet, but it didn't quite work that way.
I understand how upset you are with this situation, and I do understand why it's important to some, but it won't be to me when it happens again.
Try to focus on all your happy memories with Diamond (maybe get your favourite photo framed or put on a keyring so she's always with you?) rather than this.
((hugs))
BlackVelvet
Well-Known Member
This ^^
You summed up how I feel about it really, I have a massive box of ashes that I dont really know what to do with, as I have said my goodbyes and I dont see his ashes as being him anymore. I will scatter them but I dont really know where or when, so he is my garage at the moment (because we are trying to sell the house and a massive box of horse ashes looks weird).
I have a bracelet made from his tail that I wear everyday and I consider this to be more important than his ashes.
I try not to think about happened when he was collected from the vets or when he was cremated as I just make myself upset. I focus on how much he was loved and how happy he was, I did everything for him and he never wanted for anything.
x
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
This as I said in the beginning is not a debate as to right or wrong and what to do with ashes.
I have 3 horses caskets and two cats, so??? I am keeping them till I die then I want all the caskets in one grave, That is my wish and everyone knows it.
The reason for this thread Is because I found out it might not have been her ashes and to make people aware of the protocol of individual cremation. So they can make sure its done by a reputable person. And not to be in the situation brought to light in the news
If its that important to get the ashes back to scatter or to keep. The you need to know the facts
The individual person must have the guarantee it is their horse. Not have the worry and upset it might not be on top of the grieving part of loosing their pet too. Which is what I was / am going through. When things did not sit right with the company I was using, then to find out some things on their web site are illegal.
As it turns out vet phoned me today and said the guy will do a DNA (how he can on ashes i do not know) and he guarantee its 100% Diamond and if I want it in writing that is OK, I said Yes I want it in writing.
I have read the info sent by the director and there were things that did not sit right for me, which is why I did some investigating.
So now I have found this out I know who to use next time, and if some good comes out of it for others which it obviously has judging on the pm's then I am pleased I can help at this difficult time when they go through it.
As usual threads digress from the original theme.
these threads can be like Chinese whispers, it only takes one to misread person to wave off the topic and before you know it the
thread is off track
I know how I want to remember her and ways to do it. Al of which are either done or are in the pipe line.
I have 3 horses caskets and two cats, so??? I am keeping them till I die then I want all the caskets in one grave, That is my wish and everyone knows it.
The reason for this thread Is because I found out it might not have been her ashes and to make people aware of the protocol of individual cremation. So they can make sure its done by a reputable person. And not to be in the situation brought to light in the news
If its that important to get the ashes back to scatter or to keep. The you need to know the facts
The individual person must have the guarantee it is their horse. Not have the worry and upset it might not be on top of the grieving part of loosing their pet too. Which is what I was / am going through. When things did not sit right with the company I was using, then to find out some things on their web site are illegal.
As it turns out vet phoned me today and said the guy will do a DNA (how he can on ashes i do not know) and he guarantee its 100% Diamond and if I want it in writing that is OK, I said Yes I want it in writing.
I have read the info sent by the director and there were things that did not sit right for me, which is why I did some investigating.
So now I have found this out I know who to use next time, and if some good comes out of it for others which it obviously has judging on the pm's then I am pleased I can help at this difficult time when they go through it.
As usual threads digress from the original theme.
- Now people know what questions to ask
- who and where to find someone to use
- Be confident they get their horse back
- not have the added stress of not knowing hanging over their heads.
- what to expect in the process
these threads can be like Chinese whispers, it only takes one to misread person to wave off the topic and before you know it the
thread is off track
- what to do with ashes
- misreading the topic
- talking about how to remember the horse
I know how I want to remember her and ways to do it. Al of which are either done or are in the pipe line.
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Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
You cannot test ashes for DNA.
Mongoose11
Well-Known Member
Quite. DNA is destroyed during incineration. This all beginning to get a little odd.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
I know you cannot
but he is giving me in writing that it is her.
So anyone wanting to do cremation please check the site for a reputable one nearest to you.
http://www.appcc.org.uk/find.htm
but he is giving me in writing that it is her.
So anyone wanting to do cremation please check the site for a reputable one nearest to you.
http://www.appcc.org.uk/find.htm
Lucia
New User
Leviathan, sorry if you felt I took the thread 'off topic' by mentioning what to do with the ashes. And I'm sorry if it has upset you.
I only meant to add my support for what you are saying, as someone who HAS been ripped off and NOT had her horses ashes returned as contracted for. My point was that as the ashes are NOT my horse and I have no idea what they actually *are* I am at a loss to know what to do with them that will give the closure I hoped to get from them.
Will bow out gracefully as its all still too raw for me.
I only meant to add my support for what you are saying, as someone who HAS been ripped off and NOT had her horses ashes returned as contracted for. My point was that as the ashes are NOT my horse and I have no idea what they actually *are* I am at a loss to know what to do with them that will give the closure I hoped to get from them.
Will bow out gracefully as its all still too raw for me.