Horse failed vetting!! What now?

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Horse_13

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Hi all,

I have found the perfect horse for what I want and what I need. I tried the horse a few times. And got my instructor up to see the horse and everything went well. Come the 5 stage vetting today, I got told the horse has simply failed on the hard ground test (lunging in a circle on hard ground). I was told the horse was 1/10th lame, it passed everything else apart from the hard ground test. I have been told that it has suffered a suspendory ligament injury 5 years ago on the leg it was 1/10th lame on but has had no problems since. Would you walk away? This will be my first brought horse but I really like the horse, I think it’s perfect for what I want to do, lovely manners , great to ride etc. It’s simply just that. The fact I want to do local riding club activities maybe that’s why it’s been failed? Has anyone experienced this? Are suspendory ligament injuries usually a no go? Why is horse hunting so hard!!

Thanks in advance :)
 
Personally I’d walk away, some horses do come good following suspensory injuries whilst others don’t but if it’s failed a vetting I’d leave it there.

Ligament injuries are heartbreaking to deal with. Imagine how you would feel if it broke down again and you were handling 6+ months of box rest, hand walking and rehab to still not be certain that they’d ever be up to the job - would it still be your idea of a perfect horse?
 
Walk away now. You could spend more money having the leg scanned which may or may not provide an answer as to why the horse is lame. However, as a purchaser, it is not your role to pay for diagnostics for the owner. There are other SOUND horses out there. Keep looking.
 
If you really like the horse I’d do further investigation....maybe ask owner to split the cost. Has the horse been in regular work since it’s injury? Do u have access to its veterinary history?....lots of horses fail on a trot circle....it could be a foot balance problem or something more sinister....if I really like him I’d investigate further or negotiate on price assuming you can see it’s been 8n regular work these past 5 yrs.
 
Horses fail vettings. In fact it is relatively rare to have them pass these days. This is a flag. This horse will probably not have a long ridden life and probably won't be the best to compete. You need to balance your heart and head. The likelihood is this horse is going to go unrideable faster than his age suggests. Do you love him enough to accept that, keep him sound as long as possible and pay for his retirement? Or - candidly - do you need something you can either sell on or at least keep in work a bit longer?

If you want something that is going to stay sound (or at least as far as a vetting can tell you that) then this isn't the right horse
 
The problem with vettings is that far too many vets aim to CMA (cover my a*se!) Vets cannot look into the future. 1/10th lame on a hard surface circle is the most unreasonable test of a horse's soundness - not least because of the variable hard surfaces supplied. Was it a slight slope, was it concrete, if a stone surface, were there ANY stones bigger than about 1/4" diameter that horse could have trod on, was it a BIG horse that CANNOT trot 'normally' on a less than 10m circle. Was the handler 'competent' - in a vetting situation most horses don't have a CLUE what you are suddenly asking them to do and their trot can become very irregular due to tension. The problem - of course - is even if you are sure the vet is wrong - and the seller gives you a money back guarantee - the vetting makes the horse uninsurable for ANY lameness. The last one of mine failed a vetting was a 5yo, immature, very green. Ruddy vet worked him harder than I have EVER seen a horse at a vetting. And on a very hot day! Not sure who was more knackered, the horse or the rider who had to keep him going. He didn't show lame at ANY part of the vetting - but the vet was determined that he MIGHT have been at risk of sacro-iliac disease. Of course, the buyer had to follow that advice. I had him gone over by my vet and my physio. Vet found nothing. My very good physio found a slight 'weakness' on one side behind (like the vast majority of young horses have.) Exercises and more work have levelled him up nicely in 3 months and I am confident he will pass his next vetting. Of course, his education has advanced, so he will be more expensive.

To further show how weird it is, 3yo filly passed 5 stage vetting for Grading at 3. Vetted again before sale, unbacked, and passed with flying colours. Was 2/10ths lame (max) after an easy backing. Buyer's vet has diagnosed everything from a DETACHED suspensory or PSD to navicular. A better vet is investigating further and - so far - has found nothing to back up the first vet. Cost to date, £7,000 - and I suspect her only problem was growth pain which 6 months in the field would have 'cured'.
 
If you plan to do tiny small circles on hard ground with this horse as its future job then walk away ..... if not then go for it, if he sounds perfect for you and you have a good feeling about him then grab him and never let him go :)

Most ridiculous thing I've heard .. 1/10th lame on a tiny circle on concrete .... ridiculous test ... testing for what?! What are they hoping to achieve with this test?
 
I agree that lunging in a tiny circle on hard ground is an unreasonable test which many horses would fail, not least because they find it hard to balance themselves, think they will slip, and so go short.

5 years is a very long time so it is entirely possible that this "lameness" is nothing to do with the previous injury. In any case, sound on every other test, and lame on hard ground would normally suggest a bony issue, not soft tissue like suspensory.

Which leg is is?
 
Antw23uk said:
If you plan to do tiny small circles on hard ground with this horse as its future job then walk away ..... if not then go for it, if he sounds perfect for you and you have a good feeling about him then grab him and never let him go :)

Most ridiculous thing I've heard .. 1/10th lame on a tiny circle on concrete .... ridiculous test ... testing for what?! What are they hoping to achieve with this test?
Click to expand...

I used to agree with you but I bought a horse that failed on the same thing and she went lame after 2 years and that was that, I had her PTS in the end.
 
AnShanDan said:
I agree that lunging in a tiny circle on hard ground is an unreasonable test which many horses would fail, not least because they find it hard to balance themselves, think they will slip, and so go short.

5 years is a very long time so it is entirely possible that this "lameness" is nothing to do with the previous injury. In any case, sound on every other test, and lame on hard ground would normally suggest a bony issue, not soft tissue like suspensory.

Which leg is is?
Click to expand...

Have to agree with this. A vetting is not a guarantee of future soundness and I'd be surprised if it was the old injury after 5yrs. There is a poster on here who has a horse that failed the vetting for the same reason if I remember correctly (Star?), if I am right, then the horse in question went on to be a real gem.
 
There are lots of things I wouldn't worry about on a vetting, but a declaration of a previous suspensory injury isn't something I would overlook easily, I would want to see vet history relating to that injury and possibly scans, I would only then make a decision but even then the horse would have to be amazing and a good enough price to make me tempted to buy still.
 
I hate vettings! My vet friend hates vettings. They are CMA exercises for the most part. The hard circle trot is not even a compulsory part of the test and can be omitted if there is no suitable ground to do it on. The trot would not necessarily worry me - the previous injury would. I would ask for permission to speak to the treating vet about the injury and ask for a prognosis based on the history and how well the horse has recovered.

On a more general note, I think there needs to be some way of making vettings more practical. Vettings should be about picking up clear problems likely to affect the horse's suitability for the intended job. And not be about virtually trying to MAKE horses go lame by stressing them way beyond normal use just to be sure the vet can't be blamed if it goes wrong later on.
 
when I bought I had a five stage vetting, I made it very clear what I want the horse for before the vet went. The horse passed. I am now looking at one hind leg as he is stiff on it, could be a growing issue, could have been kicked in the field , might just be one of those things but he passed the 5 stage with flying colours. In the end its only what the horse is like on that day. if you like him vet him again,
 
It’s so so difficult, especially for a more novice buyer.
As I get older and see more vettings I am getting a far more pragmatic approach, but equally understand the mindset of those that don’t.
On the limited information you have supplied my thoughts are -
Failing a 10m hard circle wouldn’t make me jump to it being down to the suspensory, that could be a red herring, it is more likely to be feet if it’s anything at all.
I would want to know the surface it was done on and how different the horse was on each rein - I would be more likely than to accept 1/10th on each rein if the horses expression whilst doing it was forwards and happy. If the horse was noticeably different on each rein I would be more suspicious and walk.
I’d want to see a vet report on the suspensory and a clinical and competition history since. Any suspicions on things not adding up and I really liked the horse I’d scan.
I’d also take into account how much I liked the horse, value within what else is available on the market, and if I was planning to insure (expect exclusions).

So in short probably not helpful. The only thing I do know is there is no such thing as a perfect horse so you just need to be realistic about what your priorities are
 
ETA the hard surface is more likely to pick up hoof/foot problems and the soft surface is the test for tendons, ligaments. If the horse was fine lunging in circles on a soft surface there can't be much wrong with the suspensory? But I'm no expert. So I would speak to the horse's normal vet for a sensible discussion.
 
I have an eventer who is always 1/10th lame on circles on surfaces but he still works away happily.

the fact that is was a suspensory injury would put me off if i needed it for hard work or if it was going to be going through rough ground or deep surfaces. I have a mare there who had a suspensory injury and i wouldn't be happy selling her to someone as I think she wouldn't stand up to hard work and i'd hate her life to go wrong because she pulls something again. So she's going on full time loan as a happy hacker, very low level work horse.

if you really liked the horse and it was perfect otherwise I'd see could I get it for very very (very!) cheap using the failed vetting as a bargaining tool. And i'd have a plan b if issues did arise and draw a line under an amount i was willing to spend on vets bill should they arise. .
 
Mine failed a 2 stage vetting being 1/10th lame on a hard circle. I waited two weeks and got him re-vetted and he passed fine. He did do a suspensory and a tendon about 3 years later (sep incidents) but not on the leg that failed the vetting. Now 12 and *touch wood* sound, hunts and does novice dressage and has only been lame once since the injures from an abcess

if in doubt get it re vetted or investigated
 
I think I got lucky when I had mine vetted. (vet was recommended on here so I have HHO to thank)
I had a good chat with vet in advance. She came out did all the tests, decided not to do the small circle on concrete and she explained why (risk of slipping and causing an injury, he'd already been slipping during the trot after flexion tests)

She explained to me the findings. She said that while there was nothing physically wrong with the horse she had noticed a few things in the way the owners handled the horse (breeding yard - stallion chains etc) which she wanted to highlight to me could mean he wasn't the right horse for my first and that I should definitely get help on ground manners if I were to buy him. Very thorough and considerate.

I took her advice, bought him, got a dually, had lessons in ground manners, handling, respecting personal space etc. Its the only aspect of having a horse that size that I've had to work on. Vet was absolutely spot on.

If you've got the right vet, they've listened to what you want, then you have to heed their advice, even if it breaks your heart.
 
As said above, if the previously injured suspensory is playing up you'd expect the horse to be lame on the lunge on the soft, not on the hard. So maybe the old injury is a red herring, and this COULD be something minor and new.

If the owners will pay for a vet exam (with nerve blocks, scans, x rays as necessary) and the vets are then satisfied that the problem is minor and the suspensory has not been reinjured, then maybe go ahead.
 
I think that you need a bit more information. Was the suspensory scanned if so would the vendor be happy to share with your vet. Get your Instructor involved I am assuming the Instructor is appropriately qualified. If you want to hack, low level un-affiliated/RC type activities then the suspensory might not be an issue. Vast numbers of horses are 1/10th lame on a small circle on hard/concrete ground as others have said that the previous injury might be a red-herring. If the circle had not been performed would it have passed?? What sort of money are you looking at paying as price would come into play. Bottom line is how long is a piece of string.
 
Antw23uk said:
If you plan to do tiny small circles on hard ground with this horse as its future job then walk away ..... if not then go for it, if he sounds perfect for you and you have a good feeling about him then grab him and never let him go :)

Most ridiculous thing I've heard .. 1/10th lame on a tiny circle on concrete .... ridiculous test ... testing for what?! What are they hoping to achieve with this test?
Click to expand...

Lameness?

I don't really understand why 'the ordinary rider' bothers to have a relatively cheap horse vetted (not commenting on your budget, OP), all that seems to achieve is insurance exclusions. I have never had a horse vetted and although I have lost horses 'before their time', it has never been because of anything that a pre-purchase vetting would have shown up and others have lived into their 20s and 30s. However, having had this horse vetted, OP, I think you might as well take notice of what vet said, presumably that is why you asked for a vet's opinion.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Lameness?

I don't really understand why 'the ordinary rider' bothers to have a relatively cheap horse vetted (not commenting on your budget, OP), all that seems to achieve is insurance exclusions.
Click to expand...

I used to think the same until I had one vetted, and the vet said he found a problem with its heart and it could drop dead the next day... can't remember what it was now as it was years ago but I always vet after that unless super super cheap/a project.

I'm most interested in them testing the wind and heart before/after exercise. Things like confo and lameness can be pretty accurately judged if you are competent enough.
 
I wouldn't be walking away, I'd be thinking about perhaps further investigations and split the cost with the owner? Plus I think vettings are like MOT's - only good for the day it's carried out. He'd probably pass if the test was done again .

And as above, I'm an ordinary rider and I didn't get my horse vetted
 
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