Horse falling in through shoulder in canter

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tanira

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Looking for some exercises to help with my pony who falls in through the shoulder on the right rein in canter.
We tend to motorbike on the right rein around the corner then fall in on the long side. She looks to the outside and therefore the shoulder falls in. I don't canter round and round, instead we do lots of transitions but I'm really struggling to improve this and looking on how to help her.
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciate
 
Sounds like her balance and bend on that rein needs work. Lots of circles in walk first then trot (on both reins so she doesn’t get fatigued on the bad side)
The circle needs to be small enough to create meaningful bend, but not so small she struggles. Ask for even bend through her body and her inside hind stepping through correctly. She needs to feel, understand and respect your inside leg.
Can you / she do shoulder in? That can help with stepping through and understanding the inside leg aid.
I’d park the canter for a bit until she’s is much better balanced in walk & trot.
 
If the issue shows itself to you in canter, I think it will be there to a lesser degree in walk and trot. Because the canter is a big 'ol rolling pace, the shoulder can really move from one stride to the next, so you notice the ole in education more.

I would go back to walk, ensure that the horse is polite in the contact, understands the aids, can bend and counter bend at will. Yes, I would also introduce leg yield, static turns, shoulder in and quarters in. I would ensure that he can compress and open out the frame. Both in walk and trot.

Then I would go back to canter and work on the things you have just worked on in trot. Bend and counter bend. Shoulder fore in canter. Compress and open out.
 
Get someone to video what is happening, look at what you are doing that is influencing her.
Make sure that you are sitting evenly, slow the canter on the corner to ensure that she is balanced, lift your inside rein slightly so that you are not inviting her to fall in.
Lateral work will help her to learn to balance herself, as will hacking over varied terrain.
 
Thanks both. She doesn't fall in, in the walk and trot on that rein, it's on the other rein she's more likely to fall in. I agree lifting the inside rein, which has helped somewhat and there is probably stuff I'm doing which doesn't help her improve the problem.
 
I have to agree that improving the walk and trot (or more specifically, the understanding of the aids you want to use in the canter, by practicing in walk and trot) is going to be helpful here.

My ex racer has a pretty huge and unruly canter, he falls all over the place. But there's not a lot of point in me working in canter too long at the moment, it's too difficult for him to hear my instructions and do the things I need him to do because when he loses his balance he doesn't yet understand that responding to my aids will help him get it back ;) he just thinks I'm trying to make things harder for him because up to now he has balanced himself by putting his head to the outside and going faster.

Instead we have done loads of work in walk and trot, teaching him how to stay around my inside leg, bend the correct way, become more supple, maintain a good contact into the outside rein etc... those are all the things that are missing in canter.

Now when I do pop into canter I'm able to tell him that those things are still really important and he is able to remember what they mean. So effectively he has been learning a much more advanced way of going in walk and trot, and using that knowledge to improve his balance in canter.

if she's looking to the outside in canter and motorbiking then that suggests you have a similar problem that I do :)
 
I am sure she could get a better bend etc in her walk and trot work. However, in intro tests we are getting 70%+ and have spent a year working on getting her more balanced etc in those paces first. I do totally get the need to work on the trot etc. To help balance the canter, I just feel we will never crack the canter if we carry on as we are, only in walk and trot ?
She does leg yeild and we do that often to help her move away from the leg, shoulder in we have in the walk, just starting in the trot. It is a balance thing because she's happy to bend correctly in the trot until she anticipates the canter, rushes and throws her shoulders in (to help herself "balance", or so she thinks).
 
yeah it's almost always a balance thing ;)
I would crack on and get your shoulder in in trot, it's such useful positioning and exactly the aids you need to keep them in a good balance in canter. Inside leg, to outside hand, being the key thing that they need to be able to remember when it all suddenly gets a bit more exciting in canter. then you can try to ride your canter trans from that kind of feeling in trot, which should mean that at least the first few strides will retain a bit of that balance too.

With mine what helps is to ride the transition on the 2nd half of a circle so we are coming towards the fence or wall, really putting him over his outside shoulder and connected into my outside hand - sometimes takes a moment or 2 to prepare that and a bit of leg yield can be useful there. And then riding the shoulder -in kind of aids when we are in canter: lots of inside leg to keep him supple at the ribs and reaching to my outside hand, enough inside bend to help him maintain that. I don't ride on the track much at the moment in canter, circles are more useful as they naturally engage him whereas straight lines encourage them to become strung out.
 
To get stronger in canter, you need to canter! Lots of transitions will improve any pace. And obviously do lateral work etc in walk and trot to help with balance/strength etc.

I have a youngster - our walk and trot are lovely, canter was always the harder pace because he was young and his mind was tired by the time we got very far past the warm-up. Now he is rising 5, he is stronger and more mature, so we can canter more - and his canter is really improving!
 
milliepops said:
yeah it's almost always a balance thing ;)
I would crack on and get your shoulder in in trot, it's such useful positioning and exactly the aids you need to keep them in a good balance in canter. Inside leg, to outside hand, being the key thing that they need to be able to remember when it all suddenly gets a bit more exciting in canter. then you can try to ride your canter trans from that kind of feeling in trot, which should mean that at least the first few strides will retain a bit of that balance too.

With mine what helps is to ride the transition on the 2nd half of a circle so we are coming towards the fence or wall, really putting him over his outside shoulder and connected into my outside hand - sometimes takes a moment or 2 to prepare that and a bit of leg yield can be useful there. And then riding the shoulder -in kind of aids when we are in canter: lots of inside leg to keep him supple at the ribs and reaching to my outside hand, enough inside bend to help him maintain that. I don't ride on the track much at the moment in canter, circles are more useful as they naturally engage him whereas straight lines encourage them to become strung out.
Click to expand...

Actually, I cantered the second half of the circle the other day and it felt a lot better for doing so. So perhaps, it's more shoulder in, leg yields and then only center on a circle to help engage and probably only half the circle so we don't get too motorbikey.
Thanks :)
 
maya2008 said:
To get stronger in canter, you need to canter! Lots of transitions will improve any pace. And obviously do lateral work etc in walk and trot to help with balance/strength etc.

I have a youngster - our walk and trot are lovely, canter was always the harder pace because he was young and his mind was tired by the time we got very far past the warm-up. Now he is rising 5, he is stronger and more mature, so we can canter more - and his canter is really improving!
Click to expand...
Totally agree with this, we have spent a year in walk and trot trying to get balance etc. And we are doing well at intro, we need to crack on with canter now or we never will and I do think the only way is to keep doing it. She's technically a youngster in ridden years as only broken a year ago, but I've taken it slow, trying to get the foundations sorted (clearly not there yet but it's always a work in progress....)
 
I have been working on exactly the same problem. Agree with others that by improving the quality of my trot it improved the canter. Lots of lateral work and bending.

I found doing a 10m circle in shoulder fore in one corner of the school in trot then as you join the corner ask for canter and try and keep as much inside bend as possible.

Another exercise I found helpful was putting up cavaletti across centre line on two points of the circle and canter round. The small raise off the ground helped my mare get her weight more even.
 
ownedbyaconnie said:
I have been working on exactly the same problem. Agree with others that by improving the quality of my trot it improved the canter. Lots of lateral work and bending.

I found doing a 10m circle in shoulder fore in one corner of the school in trot then as you join the corner ask for canter and try and keep as much inside bend as possible.

Another exercise I found helpful was putting up cavaletti across centre line on two points of the circle and canter round. The small raise off the ground helped my mare get her weight more even.
Click to expand...
Thank you, i will try that too.
 
I do agree that you need to canter to improve the canter but what canter you do needs to be a good enough quality to be productive, which is why i really try to train the reactions i want to be able to access in canter, in the other paces first.

Practice makes perfect... but really only perfect practice does. Otherwise you just end up teaching them it's ok to lob around in incorrect balance ;)
 
milliepops said:
I do agree that you need to canter to improve the canter but what canter you do needs to be a good enough quality to be productive, which is why i really try to train the reactions i want to be able to access in canter, in the other paces first.

Practice makes perfect... but really only perfect practice does. Otherwise you just end up teaching them it's ok to lob around in incorrect balance ;)
Click to expand...

Just what I was thinking but you put it so much better than I could.
Keep the canters short and good quality OP. Make sure you ask for the downward transition (rather than your horse fall out of canter) the moment your horse struggles. Ideally you want to make the transition just before your horse struggles, but that’s quite a tricky one to do in practice!
 
milliepops said:
I do agree that you need to canter to improve the canter but what canter you do needs to be a good enough quality to be productive, which is why i really try to train the reactions i want to be able to access in canter, in the other paces first.

Practice makes perfect... but really only perfect practice does. Otherwise you just end up teaching them it's ok to lob around in incorrect balance ;)
Click to expand...
Yep I agree with you, i don't want her to just think motorbikeing is the way of doing it. Thanks both for your help, I think I've got a few ideas to help from what you've all said. I generally know where she struggles so I think i can bring her back just before it, then ask again (if she balanced). I've got some gallops close to me, which I can use so I can build her strength on that rein in straight lines, which I think will help her too.
 
How's the canter on the lunge? I had a horse who had never cantered on the right lead, so his right canter was so unbalanced. We did a lot of short sessions of the lunge, as you are always on a circle and he doesn't have to balance the rider as well as really helped him get the idea and develop the strength to canter properly with me on board. I used side reins and got a nice balanced trot, pop up to canter for just 1/2 a circle at a time.
 
Jango said:
How's the canter on the lunge? I had a horse who had never cantered on the right lead, so his right canter was so unbalanced. We did a lot of short sessions of the lunge, as you are always on a circle and he doesn't have to balance the rider as well as really helped him get the idea and develop the strength to canter properly with me on board. I used side reins and got a nice balanced trot, pop up to canter for just 1/2 a circle at a time.
Click to expand...
It's getting better. I used to freeschool her because it was soo unbalanced she couldn't do a 20 meter circle without me being pulled around. Now we can (phew), I should probably do more with her on the lunge to build it up. I was thinking of lunging her and using the cavaletti exercises suggested above as well. ? Thanks for your suggestion!
 
You have to be able to help them to get that ‘perfect canter’ - your shoulders go here, use this leg more, head here, lift this shoulder... I finished a stint of canter seriously puffing the other day, but he had improved so much by the end! I prefer to do this ‘helping’ bareback because I have better feel and more influence for the fine tuning that way, but you can do it under saddle too.
 
Just wanted to say thanks for your suggestions guys. We've put in some of your suggestions over the week and I can see some improvements already ?
 
Another suggestion is to move your inside leg slightly forward in the canter, almost to the shoulder, and sort of flex your ankle to wrap your foot in a bit. Many people instinctively put their inside leg on, but often their leg is a little too far back and they effectively ask the Horse to move the rib cage over which results in more unbalanced weight on the shoulder. I’ve yet to find a horse that this technique doesn’t help while they are establishing their balance. It just acts as a ‘prop’ to them. As they become more established and balanced, you’ll find you can leave your leg in the normal position.
 
Just as encouragement - you will make it, we finally got there tonight! Coblet has been gradually getting straighter on the circle, and it has been much improved, but still not like an ‘adult’ canter. He has also begun to sit up round the tighter corners needed to turn onto the 3/4 line so he could leg yield to the track, but not on a full circle. Until today! Two lovely circles in each direction with him sitting up, lifting, legs underneath him and no random leaning or drifting or any baby stuff! Exhausted him lol but now he knows how it should feel.

We have done: leg yield on straight and circles (walk, trot, canter), shoulder-in (walk and trot) and turn on the forehand. A real focus on straightness both on the straight and in circles in walk and trot, then attempting to get the same in canter, focusing on controlling the shoulders, lifting the back and getting the hind legs underneath equally. Leg yield in canter was easiest in a field out hacking where there was more room!

Hope you get there soon too! Feels great!!
 
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