Horse for sale

My last one was sold to me with pictures/video like this. She was horrendously unfit at the time and was not ready for any sort of "outline" let alone chin to chest. She was a corking horse but took a lot of reschooling to get out of the btv habit when any contact was applied. I wouldn't rule out any adds like this but from now on I'm definitely sticking with doing all the work myself where possible!
 
ester said:
Ah ok,

it looks like the sort of horse that ought to be able to take a much better picture than the one presented regardless of its preferred carriage.
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Agreed , however her horses dont stay unsold for long ! so its not really an issue luckily as none of them have stunning photos in the ads. we all have different ideas of what catches the eye! :-) . Now thats me in trouble as well!
 
popsdosh said:
Perhaps I put it badly . What I meant was due to the geographic locality I was surprised that the rider and seller was set as an example by both Clodagh and cundlegreen as I would be surprised if they didnt know her. Which ever way you look at it the comments are a criticism of the rider .
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I've no idea who the rider is but don't think it's a nice pic, of either horse or rider
 
popsdosh said:
Perhaps I put it badly . What I meant was due to the geographic locality I was surprised that the rider and seller was set as an example by both Clodagh and cundlegreen as I would be surprised if they didnt know her. Which ever way you look at it the comments are a criticism of the rider .
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I haven't the faintest idea who the rider is, and I certainly didn't pick on her either. I just have a pathological dislike of any horse BTV.....
 
I have no idea at all who she is. I don't even know her name, it was a photo a friend shared on FB. If we never commented on anyone that someone, somewhere might know we wouldn't have a lot to say!
I am glad she is a successful dealer, and it looks a nice little stamp of a horse, I just hated the haul the head in picture.
 
Clodagh said:
I have no idea at all who she is. I don't even know her name, it was a photo a friend shared on FB. If we never commented on anyone that someone, somewhere might know we wouldn't have a lot to say!
I am glad she is a successful dealer, and it looks a nice little stamp of a horse, I just hated the haul the head in picture.
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The head is not being hauled what makes you think it is .have you never seen green youngsters work in that outline.
 
popsdosh said:
The head is not being hauled what makes you think it is .have you never seen green youngsters work in that outline.
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No! I have always seen green youngsters being broken in for me going forwards with their head in front of the vertical. I have not watched a lot though.
 
popsdosh said:
Perhaps I put it badly . What I meant was due to the geographic locality I was surprised that the rider and seller was set as an example by both Clodagh and cundlegreen as I would be surprised if they didnt know her. Which ever way you look at it the comments are a criticism of the rider .
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Any one who is a decent (or even mediocre) judge of a horse/rider can see that the rider is not sitting in the 'line from ear/hip/ankle' and that the horse is btv both of which are worthy of crticism. If the rider was sitting in a better position, the horse may well be in a better 'outline'. If I were selling a horse, I would want a decent rider to show it to the best of the horse's ability.

I have no idea who the rider is and I live nowhere near the area.

ETA the abundance of tack makes me think that the horse's head is being hauled in, alongside the rider's position.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
ETA the abundance of tack makes me think that the horse's head is being hauled in, alongside the rider's position.
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LOL can you point out the abundance of tack or havent you looked closely at the picture! I dont see anything other than a green horse very recently backed . Oh and the rider is a very successful young rider that backs and sells horses to make a living,with a very healthy waiting list of horses to produce. So cant be to shoddy!
 
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Otherwise said:
To be fair that's actually quite a good photo for an advert. It's a reasonable size, the whole horse is in frame, there's enough light so you can see clearly, it's not blurry, they're not doing some silly stunt like standing on its back, you can make an educated quess about the horses training from it and whether you'd want to look at the horse in person. Problem is if the horse is badly schooled you'll never get a nice photo of it, at least it's a true representation of what the horse is. Yes the horse should be schooled more correctly and people should know better than to like the overall picture and be impressed by it but there's hundreds of photos like this, this is unfortunately all too common a picture.
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good post. photo doesn't do much for me but then he's not my type of horse. see far worse photos both in the horses way of going and well, just poor photos really. if I were in the market for that type and local, I'd go see for myself.
 
popsdosh said:
LOL can you point out the abundance of tack or havent you looked closely at the picture! I dont see anything other than a green horse very recently backed . Oh and the rider is a very successful young rider that backs and sells horses to make a living,with a very healthy waiting list of horses to produce. So cant be to shoddy!
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Are you related to her or something? That's pretty awful riding and the horse is not going at all well, running martingales on young horses drive me mad, and there is not much good about anything in this picture, other than to say I've unfortunately seen worse.

EDTA - And you can most definitely get people to send you horses to "train" whilst concurrently being slightly less shoddy than they are.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
good post. photo doesn't do much for me but then he's not my type of horse. see far worse photos both in the horses way of going and well, just poor photos really. if I were in the market for that type and local, I'd go see for myself.
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have to agree here, there are definitely worse photos on sale ads where you don't get a look at the whole horse side on etc.
Have no idea who the rider is, but it's not a great shot of the horse for enticing buyers, it's making the neck look shorter than it probably is and the gag and martingale kind of suggest it might be a bit "lively" but it's not exactly horrendous.
 
Cortez said:
Are you related to her or something? That's pretty awful riding and the horse is not going at all well, running martingales on young horses drive me mad, and there is not much good about anything in this picture, other than to say I've unfortunately seen worse.

EDTA - And you can most definitely get people to send you horses to "train" whilst concurrently being slightly less shoddy than they are.
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Agreed.

I'd have been embarrassed if a pic surfaced of one of mine going like that and I'd definitely not put it in an advert.
A local dealer (who is well thought of and straight) has many pics of hers btv and I wince if ever I see them on local fb pages.

I shake my head these days at what passes at lower levels for 'going well' and smile when I see an advert with a youngster or adult equine relaxed and accepting the seat and leg in a pleasing picture. Sadly, the latter is all too rare.
 
Cortez said:
Are you related to her or something? That's pretty awful riding and the horse is not going at all well, running martingales on young horses drive me mad, and there is not much good about anything in this picture, other than to say I've unfortunately seen worse.

EDTA - And you can most definitely get people to send you horses to "train" whilst concurrently being slightly less shoddy than they are.
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Ah well im surprised nobody else has clocked the rider and no not related! She would obviously have to improve if she did not have a healthy turnover of horses sold. However im guessing all the criticisers would have lovely relaxed photos of horses who had only been sat on a few times ,but thats the nature of the game selling backed horses guess you rely on buyers who can see past what on the surface is a poor picture. The problem is more often than not they are selling into a market where they do not want them to have done a lot and the turnover is quick so by the time you get the perfect outline and everything perfect it will have left your yard weeks ago.
 
Beausmate said:
Usually in an ad for a horse at least fifteen years old....
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(Above said by Beausmate in reference to Clodagh's comment of 'will go far in any sphere'...always promising.)


This^^^
An older horse with no proven competition record but described as one who is 'very talented, a lot of potential, would go far in the right hands/would do BE/BJ/BS/BD up to xxxx'. Usually no explanation given why he's not proven himself yet or up to what level he is schooled.

Also when dealers describe all their horse in almost exactly the same way without personalising the adverts to each horse.
 
Popsdosh, I have many, many photographs of just-backed horses going comfortably in a nice, appropriate outline on their first rides, in snaffle bridles and without martingales or other artificial aids. The problem with this photo is that the horse is not going well, and the rider (whoever she is: irrelevant) isn't riding particularly well either, are we essentially being asked to congratulate her for it not being any worse? I am well aware that there are many sales pics that are far more incorrect that this one, but that doesn't make it "good".
 
Cortez said:
Popsdosh, I have many, many photographs of just-backed horses going comfortably in a nice, appropriate outline on their first rides, in snaffle bridles and without martingales or other artificial aids. The problem with this photo is that the horse is not going well, and the rider (whoever she is: irrelevant) isn't riding particularly well either, are we essentially being asked to congratulate her for it not being any worse? I am well aware that there are many sales pics that are far more incorrect that this one, but that doesn't make it "good".
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This. Well I don't have the pics but it is what I epxect for the two I have had broken in. If a horse goes BTV and you don't want it to, would you not sit deep and ask it to move forwards and maybe use a kinder bit?
 
Cortez said:
Popsdosh, I have many, many photographs of just-backed horses going comfortably in a nice, appropriate outline on their first rides, in snaffle bridles and without martingales or other artificial aids. The problem with this photo is that the horse is not going well, and the rider (whoever she is: irrelevant) isn't riding particularly well either, are we essentially being asked to congratulate her for it not being any worse? I am well aware that there are many sales pics that are far more incorrect that this one, but that doesn't make it "good".
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Shame we are not all perfect! I am afraid I always find it strange when people have to comment on others sales adverts and pull them to pieces surely the proof is in the pudding ie if they sell or not . How would they feel if others started commenting on their photos in such a way. Not like it was even an ad on H&H
 
Cortez said:
and the rider (whoever she is: irrelevant) isn't riding particularly well either, are we essentially being asked to congratulate her for it not being any worse?
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Just not sitting here shredding a person's position (who you don't know, who has never done anything to you), would probably suffice.

Wonder how you'd all feel if you came on here one day to find a thread about how badly you were riding.
 
SpringArising said:
Just not sitting here shredding a person's position (who you don't know, who has never done anything to you), would probably suffice.

Wonder how you'd all feel if you came on here one day to find a thread about how badly you were riding.
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Well, quite a few of us have no problem putting pictures up of ourselves riding fairly frequently; shred away.

I didn't put the picture up, but agree with whoever did about it not being a particularly nice one; others think it's fine, so we're having a discussion about it, that's all...it's what forums are all about I think.
 
SpringArising said:
Do you ride much PS? Your comment gives the impression that you don't understand the actions of a martingale or gag.
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Bit rude. The point is that "corrective" bits and tack really shouldn't be on just-backed horses....and if they are needed then the backing process has been flawed.
 
I'm bemused about comments about the bit. It's being used as a hanging cheek snaffle, about as mild as you can get.

PD do you school much (or even ride much?). I think if you did you would understand the concern about how over bent the horse is. Because it isn't a green horse outline, that would be a poking out nose. It's either a 'held in' outline (and the giveaway for that for me is the stress showing the in rider's knuckles) or an 'evading the contact' outline. The trouble is that once a horse had got hold of either of those ideas it can be really difficult to get them out of it, so it's better not to start it in the first place.

I guess the rider is just doing what she thinks (knows?) she needs to do to sell a horse in today's market. It looks like a fairly normal slightly defensive seat on newly broken horse to me, nothing horrendous. The martingale looks far too short, but it's not actually in use, so can't be blamed for anything in that picture.

As far as criticism goes, I think if a horse is put up for sale and it was within your powers to get much better photos, it's fair game. I wouldn't be annoyed if my for sale advert got that much attention!
 
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ycbm said:
I'm bemused about comments about the bit. It's being used as a hanging cheek snaffle, about as mild as you can get.


As far a criticism goes, I think if a horse is put up for sale and it was within your powers to get much better photos, it's fair game. I wouldn't be annoyed if my for sale advert got that much attention!
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Agree re the bit see people see loads of metal without really looking.

My issue re the comments is this picture was lifted from her facebook rather than generally published adverts. I think there is also a backstory with this horse and all is not as it seems. Having seen the videos the picture is pretty good.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
I'd have been embarrassed if a pic surfaced of one of mine going like that and I'd definitely not put it in an advert.
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This - I'd be pretty mortified. It's an unsettling picture - as much because so many people think it is acceptable, or worse, correct, and because dealers probably do get more sales by showing horses like this, rather than in a relaxed and appropriate carriage.

I don't consider this dealer's alleged success as a mitigating factor - I consider it a very sad reflection on equestrianism in the UK.
 
popsdosh said:
My issue re the comments is this picture was lifted from her facebook rather than generally published adverts. I think there is also a backstory with this horse and all is not as it seems. Having seen the videos the picture is pretty good.
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It was on a for sale ad when my friend shared it. I don't go about stalking random strangers and sharing their photos. I agree with Cortez that surely we are having a discussion, and there is not much point going on a forum if a. Everyone should always agree or b. people cannot accept another opinion without getting shirty. I thought the photo, which was a public pic, was worthy of debate. There is no need for everyone to get all uptight and personal about it, just ignore the thread if it upsets you and it will die a natural death. (Not solely aimed at you, PD).
 
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