Horse for sale

popsdosh said:
Agree re the bit see people see loads of metal without really looking.
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the only reason I mentioned it (can't speak for anyone else) is just the impression it gives. If the horse goes well in effectively a hanging cheek, then for a sale picture it would look a lot better *wearing* a hanging cheek. that's all ;) First impressions count sometimes, just the same as people painting their houses in neutral colours before selling IMO!
 
Clodagh said:
There is no need for everyone to get all uptight and personal about it
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I highly doubt you'd be so enthralled about a 'discussion' (futile attempt at describing the bitchiness of some on here) had this thread been about you.

YCBM and MP's comments at least had decorum about them.
 
SpringArising said:
I highly doubt you'd be so enthralled about a 'discussion' (futile attempt at describing the bitchiness of some on here) had this thread been about you.

YCBM and MP's comments at least had decorum about them.
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I imagine pros are used to criticism.
 
Clodagh said:
It was on a for sale ad when my friend shared it. I don't go about stalking random strangers and sharing their photos. I agree with Cortez that surely we are having a discussion, and there is not much point going on a forum if a. Everyone should always agree or b. people cannot accept another opinion without getting shirty. I thought the photo, which was a public pic, was worthy of debate. There is no need for everyone to get all uptight and personal about it, just ignore the thread if it upsets you and it will die a natural death. (Not solely aimed at you, PD).
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Surely though when that discussion creates criticism of somebody who is not even here to defend themselves that crosses a line that anybody on here would not be happy about if aimed at them. This is what i find wrong about post that criticise ads ultimately the marketplace will dictate if the photo helped or not however when people who have no interest in buying the horse choose to make an example of it it can kill a sale ,is that really fair on a seller and would you feel the same if you were the seller and others made disparaging comments.
I will apologise as I didnt mean to personalise things I was just a little surprised as early comments came from people living very close to the subject I accept you may not know her.
 
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SpringArising said:
I highly doubt you'd be so enthralled about a 'discussion' (futile attempt at describing the bitchiness of some on here) had this thread been about you.

YCBM and MP's comments at least had decorum about them.
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The only person being really bitchy on here is you, actually. The comments about the picture were not highly personal and your reaction to the discussion is a bit over the top considering that most people were saying that sadly this picture is "better" than many out there (faint praise and all that)...

*Unless it's you in the picture???
 
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popsdosh said:
Surely though when that discussion creates criticism of somebody who is not even here to defend themselves that crosses a line that anybody on here would not be happy about if aimed at them. This is what i find wrong about post that criticise ads ultimately the marketplace will dictate if the photo helped or not however when people who have no interest in buying the horse choose to make an example of it it can kill a sale ,is that really fair on a seller and would you feel the same if you were the seller and others made disparaging comments.
I will apologise as I didnt mean to personalise things I was just a little surprised as early comments came from people living very close to the subject I accept you may not know her.
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I don't know how this post has got so personal. I commented on the horse and the way it was going. I'm not interested in the rider, whoever she may be....
 
Excuse my ignorance..I get the jist of what some people don't like about the pic and as a mere relatively new rider I get the thing about the horse's head position ...but what does BTV stand for? I hazzered a guess at ''behind the vertical'' or '' below the vertical''...

Shirl
 
popsdosh said:
Shame we are not all perfect! I am afraid I always find it strange when people have to comment on others sales adverts and pull them to pieces surely the proof is in the pudding ie if they sell or not . How would they feel if others started commenting on their photos in such a way. Not like it was even an ad on H&H
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Now this really does make me laugh!

I have no idea who this rider is or how many horses she sells, or to whom, so this is not referring to her as a 'dodgy dealer'. However there are many dodgy dealers who appear to sell plenty of horses to those who know no better than to think that a photo such as the one this thread is about shows a horse in 'an outline'.
I wouldn't expect to see a young green horse in anything other than a very natural relaxed outline, in a snaffle bit without a martingale. I would expect to see the rider on a young green horse sitting up straight with ear/shoulder/hip/ankle in alignment, as is the very basic position that any beginner rider should learn. The horse will never go in a correct outline if the rider never sits in the correct position.
 
To be fair, PaS, if the horse has been at all bucky to break, that's exactly how I would expect the backer to sit. Sometimes staying on is more important in the very early stages.
 
ester said:
you got it the first time :)
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many thanks ...phew....the second guess was only an after thought..In my very humble opinion I would have liked to see the horse adopting a natural position. Does that poition put a strain on the neck musculature?

Shirl
 
ycbm said:
To be fair, PaS, if the horse has been at all bucky to break, that's exactly how I would expect the backer to sit. Sometimes staying on is more important in the very early stages.
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But would you really want prospective buyers to think that the horse was likely to buck them off? Is this horse really being sold as being 'in the very early stages'? Surely a bit more work put in before advertising would be advisible. Otherwise prospective buyers are likely to decide they would prefer to start a youngster themselves, rather than inherit someone else's mistakes.


In fact sitting in that position is more likely to encourage the horse to buck, imo. If the rider sits in a relaxed manner the horse will relax.
 
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Pearlsasinger said:
But would you really want prospective buyers to think that the horse was likely to buck them off? Is this horse really being sold as being 'in the very early stages'? Surely a bit more work put in before advertising would be advisible. Otherwise prospective buyers are likely to decide they would prefer to start a youngster themselves, rather than inherit someone else's mistakes.
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I didn't say it was a good advert :) just that it wasn't necessarily a bad rider.
 
ycbm said:
I didn't say it was a good advert :) just that it wasn't necessarily a bad rider.
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But we were talking about what we would expect to see in an advert!

Perhaps I should have said that I would expect to see a photo taken especially for the ad. Obviously there are plenty of occasions when riding any horse that the rider's position is less than perfect, for all sorts of reasons, but you wouldn't use those photos for an ad would you?
 
shirl62 said:
Does that poition put a strain on the neck musculature?

Shirl
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Riding BTV in general restricts the horse's movement - prevents it lifting its shoulders, activating its abdominal muscles correctly and lifting the back, making the horse work heavily onto the forehand. Basically, it's far from ideal for biomechanics in many ways.
 
If you watch the video it doesn't look the easiest horse on the flat, I expect its talents lay elsewhere! Unfortunately the photo is taken to suit the market, and in that market a nose in photo does the job! I wish I had 1/2 the ability of the photoed rider especially with bringing on youngsters. Not that this horse is one! She does have relatives on here, I hope she's not upset about being singled out for poor (but good for the market) photo choice. I can't imagine the pony will be available long.
 
rara007 said:
If you watch the video it doesn't look the easiest horse on the flat, I expect its talents lay elsewhere! Unfortunately the photo is taken to suit the market, and in that market a nose in photo does the job! I wish I had 1/2 the ability of the photoed rider especially with bringing on youngsters. Not that this horse is one! She does have relatives on here, I hope she's not upset about being singled out for poor (but good for the market) photo choice. I can't imagine the pony will be available long.
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I do feel sorry for her - I find it more of a depressing statement about that side of the market, and the fact that I know so many people who think that "head tucked right in" is desirable, than that there's anything especially awful about that photo (I see an awful lot worse - though at the same time, I wouldn't chose to share a photo myself!).
 
Pearlsasinger said:
But we were talking about what we would expect to see in an advert!

Perhaps I should have said that I would expect to see a photo taken especially for the ad. Obviously there are plenty of occasions when riding any horse that the rider's position is less than perfect, for all sorts of reasons, but you wouldn't use those photos for an ad would you?
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This not aimed at you PaS personally.
Oh if only we all lived in a perfect world. As rara has backed up it is not an easy horse and thats about the best you will get from it. The rider gets sent all sorts to sell and does a good job of it if only some of the detractors were as capable as her on a horse,anyhow her talents(selling horses) seem to outweigh any lack of top notch marketing.I guess having pro pictures and a pack of lies about a horse is more acceptable . The picture in question was on her FB page where she puts honest descriptions of the horses she has in along with pics and video warts and all guess that doesnt suit some people but then that page is aimed at people she knows and not intended for general viewing. It will sell quick as they all do. Just unfortunate that picture was picked up for ridicule when friends and family members are on here to see it. Running down adverts seems to be good sport surely it would be more constructive to pick out the good ones if you really must make a point.
 
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I really struggle to get photos for adverts... this is a newly broken 4 year old out her first dressage. She has been backed less than 7 weeks here. This pony is sold now... my photographer needs that sack though!!!!
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dominobrown said:
I really struggle to get photos for adverts... this is a newly broken 4 year old out her first dressage. She has been backed less than 7 weeks here. This pony is sold now... my photographer needs that sack though!!!!
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Now, that's what I call a nice novice (as in young horse) outline. No winching in, and horse and rider look relaxed and happy.
 
DB - love that yougster. OK so photographer can't focus but you can really see how nicely she is going.

I did not share the original photo for ridicule, I didn't think it was a good photo but tbh I really wish I hadn't. It was shared as a for sale ad, I reiterate I did not stalk the seller and I will never put a photo on here again.
FGS. Glad it sold.
 
Clodagh said:
DB - love that yougster. OK so photographer can't focus but you can really see how nicely she is going.

I did not share the original photo for ridicule, I didn't think it was a good photo but tbh I really wish I hadn't. It was shared as a for sale ad, I reiterate I did not stalk the seller and I will never put a photo on here again.
FGS. Glad it sold.
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I wouldn't worry about it. So some on here got very extreme in their replies, there are more important things out there to be stressing about. Still haven't a clue who the rider is, and don't care!
 
popsdosh said:
Ah well im surprised nobody else has clocked the rider and no not related! She would obviously have to improve if she did not have a healthy turnover of horses sold. However im guessing all the criticisers would have lovely relaxed photos of horses who had only been sat on a few times ,but thats the nature of the game selling backed horses guess you rely on buyers who can see past what on the surface is a poor picture. The problem is more often than not they are selling into a market where they do not want them to have done a lot and the turnover is quick so by the time you get the perfect outline and everything perfect it will have left your yard weeks ago.
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I would say that would largely depend on her clientele if she was any good or not! There are people round me who "produce" horses, and seem to do well by it, but they aren't actually any good for the horse in the long run. As well as that any savvy buyer would also be cautious of buying something that would have to be taken back and re-schooled. Of course there are people who aren't as knowledgeable or don't mind this way of going, but I can't say it would be healthy for the horses body long term.

As for rate of turn over, I would actually class lots of horses coming and going in a short period of a time as a bad thing. I would rather the producer spent a bit more time on getting horses going well rather than rush them, to me just sounds as though she is in it for the money without putting real consideration about the end product. Now I have no idea who this rider is or even what area of the country she is in so I have no grudge with her at all.

And sorry, but if that is a young green horse then why is it in a gag?! There should be no reason why a horse can't be flat schooled in a normal snaffle IMO.
 
It isn't a young green horse, it is 10. Having watched the vids I think both 'flat' and jumping for sale vids were taken the same day, in the same kit.
 
ester said:
It isn't a young green horse, it is 10. Having watched the vids I think both 'flat' and jumping for sale vids were taken the same day, in the same kit.
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That would make sense, previous comments implied horse was a youngster, and I had not read all the comments to the end before posting :)
 
BethanT said:
I would say that would largely depend on her clientele if she was any good or not! There are people round me who "produce" horses, and seem to do well by it, but they aren't actually any good for the horse in the long run. As well as that any savvy buyer would also be cautious of buying something that would have to be taken back and re-schooled. Of course there are people who aren't as knowledgeable or don't mind this way of going, but I can't say it would be healthy for the horses body long term.

As for rate of turn over, I would actually class lots of horses coming and going in a short period of a time as a bad thing. I would rather the producer spent a bit more time on getting horses going well rather than rush them, to me just sounds as though she is in it for the money without putting real consideration about the end product. Now I have no idea who this rider is or even what area of the country she is in so I have no grudge with her at all.

And sorry, but if that is a young green horse then why is it in a gag?! There should be no reason why a horse can't be flat schooled in a normal snaffle IMO.
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If you look very closely it is not being used as a gag!! Said rider rides at high level in at least 3 disciplines and is very talented her buyers are mostly also knowledgeable in their own right and go back for more! God knows what you assume if you do have a grudge ? How can you judge a rider from a photo taken in a split second judgemental or what!
 
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