Horse had rotational fall with daughter today, opinions please .

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
My greenish mare came to me last February , she was 6 prob just backed, had 4 foals, I hacked her out and hunted her, she tripped loads , including face planting the Tarmac and grazing her nose, physio said her pelvis was uneven and she needs to build the correct muscles in her rear, her right hind is weak , squared off toe etc. Season of hunting, rolled toes n good saddle fitting and tripping a thing of the past really. Foxy is a 14.1 coloured cob and unschooled, finds the left rein difficult physio recommended Pessoa work and schooling to work her ample bottom , I haven't used a Pessoa on her, but have lunged her lightly, she was great on right rein but very naughty on left as she finds it hard, so I am having lessons on her instead and my instructor is helping strengthen her weaknesses .
foxy can jump s solid jump out hunting , but working in the school over coloured jumps/ poles etc very hard for her and she demolishes them.
She's had the summer off and been brought back into work and to be fair has done an excessive amount of work this last 2 weeks......
She's relatively fit but not super hunting fit yet...went for a
1)4 mile exercise hack, half trot and half walking, she was super duper fiery and up for it, no tripping.

2)next day an hours lesson in walk and trot, just working in straightness.

3) 2 days later she went for a 9 mile ride and about 4 miles from home she slammed the ground on her side, my daughter was behind and said she watched her back legs slip to the left on a shiny Tarmac and front legs went same way, these things happen, was bad fall but horse slipped up, trotting short bursts on way home she not lifting her right hind fully for road clearance, call physio.

4) next day bring her out of field, trot her up, everything back to normal, must just have been tightness and that's her weak leg.

5) 3 days later ... 15 mile Funride, no tripping but last mile that leg got tired again

6) 4 days later ( today) trip to Exmoor so 50 mins in trailer then 15 miles of all down hill in walk, horse absolutely full of it, long climb up to moor , and mile walking on flat then canter with my 14 yr old daughter on board, flat even ground good going, suddenly see horse face plant the ground and up and over in a head stand, miraculously both fine if not a little stunned and confidence a bit rock bottom for mare and daughter .

This kind if mileage is not uncommon for her, she's a fit hunt horse, not overweight , looks like a little rhino, almost muscle bound to look at .... Am going to get physio out to see if she injured herself in first fall, we are assuming she tripped today but daughter unsure as was so fast, will get vet too.

This mare has fine from severely underweight to fit in 2 yrs, she was in a bad way and obviously still mega unschooled, my gut feeling is she is tired and shoes due next week, so long in the toe and unbalanced.

I guess it could be neurological or other problems and it's all guesswork until the professionals have been buthas anyone had any experience of a horse tripping. In canter and going over like that?

Obviously she's going to be on 24 hr turnout and rested until she's seen.


Thanks for reading !!
 

Moomin1

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2010
Messages
7,970
Visit site
I'm struggling to get my head around all this. She's mega unschooled, but doing 15 mile treks etc? Schooling is essential to build up balance, rhythm and strength to carry a rider properly. It sounds like your mare is really struggling with either something physically wrong, or her balance (or both) is drastically poor with a rider on board. Either way, she shouldn't be doing anywhere near the level of work you are asking of her currently. I most certainly wouldn't be hunting or exercising a horse who is falling over to that extent, and your physio has already told you that she is not strong enough in certain areas. It seems you haven't really done any of the work your physio has suggested to rectify that as well.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I cannot understand why you are exercising a six year old horse who is 'mega' unschooled to the extent you have, particularly given what your physio has said to you. I would also have had the vet out after the first fall, not put her through an intensive two weeks of exercise afterwards.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
I'm struggling to get my head around all this. She's mega unschooled, but doing 15 mile treks etc? Schooling is essential to build up balance, rhythm and strength to carry a rider properly. It sounds like your mare is really struggling with either something physically wrong, or her balance (or both) is drastically poor with a rider on board. Either way, she shouldn't be doing anywhere near the level of work you are asking of her currently. I most certainly wouldn't be hunting or exercising a horse who is falling over to that extent, and your physio has already told you that she is not strong enough in certain areas. It seems you haven't really done any of the work your physio has suggested to rectify that as well.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I cannot understand why you are exercising a six year old horse who is 'mega' unschooled to the extent you have, particularly given what your physio has said to you. I would also have had the vet out after the first fall, not put her through an intensive two weeks of exercise afterwards.

Firstly she's 7 yrs and 3 mths ..... This isn't particularly hard work for a horse , and my physio and vet have recommended giving her a seasons hunting and then ask her to refine her self ..... Both highly regarded in ether equestrian world ... This horse hasn't tripped since feb march 2013... I don't think you read my post properly, thankyou for your opinion tho .
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
66,174
Location
South
Visit site
I'm also struggling a bit too.

When exactly was she brought back in to work? And how did you manage anything hunting wise on an unfit 6 year old purchased in February?
 

be positive

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2011
Messages
19,396
Visit site
I find myself agreeing with Moomin1, I cannot understand why the vet has not been involved, that as things have not improved physically with the physio that they have not referred her to the vet, which they should, that you take a sore horse on several long rides without getting her properly checked over, if the tripping was a one off and there had been no history with the hind leg I could understand it may have just been one of those things but in this case I think it is all linked.
If she has been off all summer I fail to see how she can be fit enough for the work she is currently doing, it normally takes weeks of walking and trotting to build up fitness, unless I have misunderstood she has only been in work a few weeks and is now doing 15 miles plus rides at speed.
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
66,174
Location
South
Visit site
Firstly she's 7 yrs and 3 mths ..... This isn't particularly hard work for a horse , and my physio and vet have recommended giving her a seasons hunting and then ask her to refine her self ..... Both highly regarded in ether equestrian world ... This horse hasn't tripped since feb march 2013... I don't think you read my post properly, thankyou for your opinion tho .

The horse was 6 in Feb, but now shes 7??
 

Lolo

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 August 2008
Messages
10,267
Visit site
Honestly, this sounds like a full vet work up case I'm really sorry. It's not normal at all for a young horse to be like this, regardless of how fit/ unfit they are. And if your vet finds nothing wrong I'd probably ask for a second opinion. It might be worth trying to get some video footage of her tripping too, to show it in context as it were.
 

dogatemysalad

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 July 2013
Messages
6,118
Visit site
I read this and then decided to come back to see if anyone else had shed some light on the timeline and sequence of events. I'm struggling with this too, perhaps you've left some detail out because it doesn't sound very wise.
 

Moomin1

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2010
Messages
7,970
Visit site
Firstly she's 7 yrs and 3 mths ..... This isn't particularly hard work for a horse , and my physio and vet have recommended giving her a seasons hunting and then ask her to refine her self ..... Both highly regarded in ether equestrian world ... This horse hasn't tripped since feb march 2013... I don't think you read my post properly, thankyou for your opinion tho .

You said last February she was 6 years old. I take last February, as...the last February we had....which was 5 months ago. Forgive me for getting confused by your post.

That aside, the amount of work you are asking of your horse IS a lot. You say by your own admission that she was worked excessively over those two weeks. You also say that you noticed her 'weak leg' not coping, and she actually was unlevel in that she wasn't lifting her 'weak leg' clear of the road. But you still then continued to work her excessively for the rest of the two weeks. It should be clear from the first fall, and subsequent walk home, that something is amiss and needs looking into before doing two 15 mile rides within the following week.

You say yourself she struggles on the flat on the left rein, demolishing jumps and being 'naughty' on the left rein because she finds it hard. I'm sorry, but it's screaming out at me that something is wrong.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
My vet recommended I get my physio out originally, my physio gave her a clean bill of health in April , but I wanted to give her 6 weeks off for the summer , took her shoes off and let her unwind after hunting, she recommended I see her again in October! The horse slipped up last week and we have had a locus vet in her he yard for our other horse who had an abscess in her foot the very next day, we took the mare out and trotted her up, ..... Also had the vet out for choke .on my youngster... There isn't anything wrong as such, but she lacks the strength to jump , the vet and physio who work together have both said she can have as much work as I like to give her as she's 7 now and tis almost impossible to over work a 7 yr old by today's standards, her strength in her bottom is in the wrong place, she has massive muscles on her thigh, they went me working the top of her bottom by her croup, hence schooling, I haven't ignored my physios advice , the Pessoa wasn't going to work ...... Wasn't worth putting pressure on her in that way. My mare hasn't tripped since summer , not feb 2014...
 

Moomin1

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2010
Messages
7,970
Visit site
My vet recommended I get my physio out originally, my physio gave her a clean bill of health in April , but I wanted to give her 6 weeks off for the summer , took her shoes off and let her unwind after hunting, she recommended I see her again in October! The horse slipped up last week and we have had a locus vet in her he yard for our other horse who had an abscess in her foot the very next day, we took the mare out and trotted her up, ..... Also had the vet out for choke .on my youngster... There isn't anything wrong as such, but she lacks the strength to jump , the vet and physio who work together have both said she can have as much work as I like to give her as she's 7 now and tis almost impossible to over work a 7 yr old by today's standards, her strength in her bottom is in the wrong place, she has massive muscles on her thigh, they went me working the top of her bottom by her croup, hence schooling, I haven't ignored my physios advice , the Pessoa wasn't going to work ...... Wasn't worth putting pressure on her in that way. My mare hasn't tripped since summer , not feb 2014...

I'm sorry, but that really is the biggest load of codswallop I have read in a long time. Your physio recommended you use a pessoa to build her up because she isn't strong enough to jump, yet you are taking her on 15 mile rides? And, despite your physio saying what you need to do, you have rubbished it, and decided that 'it isn't going to work' and 'you aren't going to put pressure on her like that'?? Yet, you take her on 15 mile hacks knowing her weak leg as you describe it is struggling? And any vet who says you can do what work you like with her, because it's almost impossible to over work a 7 year old needs striking off I'm afraid.

Absolutely incredible.
 

debsflo

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 August 2005
Messages
3,772
Location
lincolnshire
Visit site
Full vet work out for me too, she cant be hunting fit if shes had the summer off,it takes a long slow steady work and shes struggling from what you say. Full work up i suggest.
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
66,174
Location
South
Visit site
So the tripping is still recent then.....

Does she trip more when she's allowed to 'bumble' along?

How often is she shod?
 

joycec

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 March 2014
Messages
273
Visit site
Two fifteen mile rides on consecutive days on a horse with a weak hind leg eight weeks after a layoff long enough to remove all or most of her fitness ? And a nasty fall on the road on the same week? No wonder she has fallen over with your daughter.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
Oh my goodness, stop twisting my words I am not after people veterinary opinions I have a fantastic vet, I am asking on people views on rotational tripping falls ..
I have owned the horse since feb 2013, she's hunted oct 2013 until march 2014, been rested with a clean bill of health, been brought back into work with road work, and had light lunging , which hasn't worked for us, been recommended we try schooling instead with an instructor I might add, working on a program from physio, had like 1 lesson ... It is excessive for what I would do with her, but but 15 miles rides ( 3.5 hr ride ) is far from excessive for a horse .... Seriously people have no idea what a long ride is for a horse , I also add she slipped up on road and was checked , no I'll affects, her squaring off that hoof is what we work on it's her action , vet or physio not bothered other than advising I try to get her working a bit straighter with physio keeping her supple inbetween.

I've stated she may have some neuro problems and going to ask for further tests, but not going to speculate , cob owners will realise the issues with tripping... Thanks for scaring off the timid people who might like to have commented with something constructive ... Same old same old here!
And same old bored bags having a dig
 

Char0901

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 July 2012
Messages
387
Location
North West
Visit site
Probably going to get jumped on here bit I'm a little confused too.
I understand what you're saying but it is a lot of work. I'm not saying she's over worked but for a horse lacking muscles in the correct places it must be hard.
I believe 10 minute walk/trot hill work and a nice canter up a stubble field would be better a few times a week. Rome wasn't built in a day and she'll take time to develop. Her balance should improve when correct muscle is formed.
And sorry but I'm a big lover of the pessoa. Used correctly I find its a brilliant tool, providing you know what you're doing with it.
 

dogatemysalad

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 July 2013
Messages
6,118
Visit site
She seems to be suddenly going from field rest to quite demanding work. Fitness needs to be built up and going from nought to 60 straight away is too much.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
So the tripping is still recent then.....

Does she trip more when she's allowed to 'bumble' along?

How often is she shod?

She's shod every 6 weeks , so on week 5 ! She hasn't tripped until today .... Last time she tripped was back when I first got her before a season tripping.
Bumbling along is fine, historically she tripped when she rushed and was on ether forehand and running through the bridle, like I say, she's changed massively since then ... She was unable to walk in a straight line when I got her , on fact used to run up the bank!!
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
She had 6 weeks off was hunting fit before ... Takes 12 weeks to lose total fitness and has been back in work for what 8 weeks? Although was lunged during the 6 week rest .......
 

shortstuff99

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 September 2008
Messages
6,491
Location
Currently Cambridgeshire! (or where ever I fancy)!
Visit site
My old mare was a hunting cob. She also jumped and evented and never had a problem with tripping. I have also known other cobs in my time and they also have never had a problem tripping. The only horses I have known to trip have a had a medical issue. For peace of mind I would have a full work up as tripping to me is not a normal cob thing.
 

Devonshire dumpling

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
3,795
Visit site
Two fifteen mile rides on consecutive days on a horse with a weak hind leg eight weeks after a layoff long enough to remove all or most of her fitness ? And a nasty fall on the road on the same week? No wonder she has fallen over with your daughter.

No... 2 fifteen mile rides 4 days apart ...... Go give up you're all exhausting me, not bothering to read what I said and ranting.
 

Hoof_Prints

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 October 2012
Messages
2,261
Visit site
To be honest, that sounds a lot of work and if my horse was falling right over (I don't know if you've become a bit desensitized to the fact that is really quite serious!) I wouldn't be taking it out on long hacks with repeated concussion on the joints/ possible affected area. I've had unbalanced youngsters and clumsy cobs, none have ever had a rotational tripping fall, if they did i'd be very, very concerned...
 

Moomin1

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 July 2010
Messages
7,970
Visit site
The fact is OP, the warning signs have all been there from the outset - the very first fall she had, you say she was showing her weakness on the way home in that leg. Yet you decide to then take her on two 15 mile rides (I don't care what you say - that is a lot for a horse who you are saying cannot do basic schooling because she lacks strength and muscle). I cannot understand the mentality of that. And putting your 14 year old daughter on board too....

It's pretty clear from your post that the tripping has something to do with either an underlying issue, or sheer lack of strength, muscle and balance to be doing that amount of work. So my course of action if I were you would be to stop working her completely until the vet has been and done a full work up. If all clear, I would then be bringing her back into work very very slowly, with the help of your instructor, and going back to basics, building up strength and balance and working through the stages of training before hairing off on 15 mile fun rides.
 

joycec

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 March 2014
Messages
273
Visit site
No... 2 fifteen mile rides 4 days apart ...... Go give up you're all exhausting me, not bothering to read what I said and ranting.

Still to much work for a horse you say is not strong enough to jump and has a weak hind leg. You just don't want to be told you've got it wrong, do you? Why did you ask?
 
Top