Horse has reduced me to tears today

Have you tried just sitting there and boring him into going the way you want.

Your posts come across very much like you are trying to force him to go forward which obviously isn't working. This just doesn't work for all horses. Sometimes sitting there and ignoring it works. Eventually they realise they are not getting there own way and just walk on. Try the patient approach.
 
Haven't read all your response so porbably repeating what has already been said. If any pain issue has been ruled out, and if he was fine to go to start with (or at least, he would go even if sticky as you put it) then yes you need to be firm.

I know how you feel. It has taken me 2 years to get to the point of being able to hack out alone on my 'newbie' whereas from the first day I had my old horse, he would go anywhere I asked him and a few places I didn't!

I was always told, do not let him turn. Make sure you have plenty of time. Maybe lead him out in hand several times (this is what I did) and also try to hack out with other horses in between times - I couldn't hack my newbie every day on his own without trouble. We have a few hacks in company, then go alone round the same route. It takes a LOT of time but we are getting there.

He can go backwards forwards or sideways but must not spin or turn.

I started leading down the road, then getting on and riding home. Short little hacks each time, and as I said hacking in company and school work in between times.

You have the bonus of knowing he can do it, and knowing that you can do it!! As you have before.

Keep at it and you will get there. Small steps though, don't try to tackle a big long hack on your own.
 
Oh yes and re twisting ears, smacking or anythign else you 'shouldn't do' these things happen. One of my ponies one day, out of the blue, decided not to be caught. Never done it before, or since, and ran circles round me for easily half an hour. I got so frustrated that I threw his headcollar at him as he went by, it slapped him on the bum, thus making him run away even faster.

That helped then......;)
 
blazingsaddles said:
Good luck with th@t. you might need it:rolleyes:
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Well, you're a cheeky little minx, aren't you?

What planet am I on, indeed.

A couple of points in your attack...oops, sorry, reply require a response, if only to clarify a few things.

"H@ve you just copied & p@sted?"

I've no idea what you mean by that.

"Horses @re twitched to rele@se endorphins which rel@x & bring feelins of wellbeing. @ he@dcoll@r. bit, hobbles restr@in."

As you say, twitching horses releases endorphins into the horse's system, but I'm not sure they "bring feelins of wellbeing". Adrenalin is an endorphin which is instrumental in the flight response of horses, and produces the opposite effect from the endorphins released by twitching. So, by twitching, we cause the release of calming endorphins in response to the pressure of the twitch, whether it is applied to the poll, the ear (to a lesser extent), or the lip/muzzle area.

"@ he@dcoll@r. bit, hobbles restr@in."

According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary, 'restrain' means to 'check or hold in from, keep in check or under control or within bounds, repress, keep down'.

So, in terms of a twitch, the restraint of a horse is practised in order to reduce the intensity of its reactions to some fearful stimilus, and to subdue ('soften, make gentle or less intense') its reactions from fear.

On the other hand 'restrict' means 'confine, bound, limit; subject to restriction' and 'restriction' means 'thing that restricts; limitation placed on action'.

From those descriptions, I would suggest that @ he@dcoll@r. bit, hobbles are methods of restriction rather than of restraint.

"Theres one thing doing groundwork in the comfort of f@mili@r surroundings with @ horse th@t's prone to stressing & @nother thing t@king him out into the big wide world & expecting the s@me results."

The purpose of doing groundwork "in the comfort of f@mili@r surroundings" is so that he learns to trust his handler, and learns to be compliant, so that when he is taken out into "the big wide world" he already knows how to behave, and his handler can expect "the s@me results."

"Then you lunge him & get him re@lly fit, so the next time you venture out on your own he will be full of be@ns & even more @nxious."

Now it becomes obvious to me what planet you are on, ha ha. (Don't have any smilies for some reason). Does that mean that you would rather ride a half-trained horse which was below his ideal fitness level, than take time out of the saddle to properly train him and bring him to a level of fitness and compliance which would make him a pleasure to own and ride?

Longeing horses does help get them fit. However, if it is done properly, and the horse worked correctly rather than just being allowed to career round in a circle doing what it pleases (a very common occurrence these days), it is an excellent method for teaching the horse to listen to the handler, and to teach him to be responsive and obedient. In fact, a competently longed horse will become obedient long before he is fit, so he will be safe to ride when the time comes, regardless of his fitness.

Like berpisc, I favour longreining as a means of producing a safe, willing and brave riding horse but, as with longeing, not everyone has the confidence or ability to do it properly.
 
I wouldn't be doing that to his ear, no point in inflection pain on him.

When did he last have his saddle checked? My lad went the same way, everyone was saying its just him trying it on, when in actually fact it was due to his saddle pinching.

Also I will admit my lad did try it on after a while, how did I get him over it? I sat on him untill he decided to move, be in 10minutes to an 1hour! it worked and hes been great ever since, I was quite the hole time, praised him when he did walk on.
 
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As a cob owner speaking about mine he loves it when i lose my temper because he won after iv shouted and kicked and called him all the names under the sun he will just go and do what i wanted with no asking i sure i see him grinning one thing you can not do is bully a cob and never think there stupid because thats what they want you to think im lucky never had any major problems with my boy only other peoples horses
 
Long rein him. He's got used to only going forward on his terms, now he has to learn to go forwards on yours. The advantage with long reining is that you're safe, & can confidently send him forwards. Be progressive. Once he is going forwards on the long reins find someone to help. Let them long rein him once or twice to make sure he doesn't try to take the micky out of them then up you get & ride him up the road with your help long reining him. If that goes well then remove the long reins & you ride him up the road with your helper following along behind, & the final stage is for you to ride him out alone.
Make sure each stage is well established, with no hesitation from the horse to the forward motion before moving on to the next. Don't be worried about going back a stage if needs be.It sounds drawn out, but if you can be consistent & work him everyday shouldn't take much mor than a week or two.
 
The sitting it out and waiting thing is a really good idea but I'd just like to point out that it's not always possible. I had to dismount from my horse yesterday because we have to ride through a very busy village. After a minute or two of trying to get her to go forwards, there were already maybe 10 cars piled up in each direction all waiting for me and I couldn't leave her planted in the middle of the road.

There is a lot of good advice here, from people far far more competent than me, but I just wondered... are you sure he's not just afraid? Or is it definite naughtiness? Lots of people suggest various uses of the whip but I didn't smack my horse yesterday because she was terrified of a skip that she could see.
 
Quote I twisted his ear Quote
alicemary said:
. Thought I had it licked yesterday as I poked him behind the saddle with my car key and he went forward , today it hasnt worked.
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Have you considered having some lessons? And some anger management sessions?
I consider this to be disgraceful behaviour. If you decide to sell this horse, I suggest you replace it with a rocking horse.
 
Well Pearlsasinger, if you consider a poke - not a stab - with the end of a blunt key disgraceful, Im sorry. However, needs must when the devil drives as they say. I am not into beating up horses or being cruel but sometimes a short sharp shock as they say works wonders.
 
*am not into beating up horses or being cruel but sometimes a short sharp shock as they say works wonders*
But it hasn't has it? I had a horse that could nap for Britain, much more than just planting, eventually got her going well, with patience, a lot of hard work and if I had beaten, her, used whips and spurs, twisted her ear or poked her with my car keys I would probably not be here to tell the tale. Your horse is unhappy, do what you can to make him happier, in this instance, probably selling to someone who gets on with him,
 
alicemary said:
Well Pearlsasinger, if you consider a poke - not a stab - with the end of a blunt key disgraceful, Im sorry. However, needs must when the devil drives as they say. I am not into beating up horses or being cruel but sometimes a short sharp shock as they say works wonders.
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I certainly consider planning to 'poke' the horse behind the saddle with a car-key to be disgraceful behaviour. I am assuming that you planned this as I know no-one who rides as a matter of course with their car-key in their hand. If you do ride this way normally, this could be one of your problems, you must be able to react instantaneously to this horse's forward movement, preferably not by jabbing it in the mouth. As you have already said this tactic did not work today, you have gained nothing and lost a little more of your horse's trust. For goodness (and your horse's) sake get some lessons.
 
Pearlsasinger, I am not going to get into a slanging march, which is what you seem to want.
The reason I had my car key on me was because I lock my car when I go out and take the key with me ! Quite natural I would have thought. No it didnt work but you never know until you try do you same with most things.
 
Alicemary - have PM'd.

Having been down this road as many times as everyone else - I can on my heart say that persistance and 'boring,' them will be the best soloution. My horse spend/s a LOT of time on his back legs when I first got him. Circling with a firm 'WALK ON,' or a tap behind the leg with the whip was all I did. I'd also spend a great deal of time walking up and down, up and down, up and down the track that caused the most problem.

Yes - It meant an 'argument' but eventually , horse worked out that napping didn't get him anywhere and wouldn't work and that infact it was causing me no grief whatsoever. (well, so as I led him to believe :eek: )

I can strongly recommend not using car keys or ear-twisting or any sort of behaviour like that to get him to move forward. If I was stood infront of you, and grabbed your arm and twisted it, would you move towards the person that was doing it?? I think I'd probably pull backwards and run as fast as I could in the opposite direction!!
 
alicemary said:
Pearlsasinger, I am not going to get into a slanging march, which is what you seem to want.
The reason I had my car key on me was because I lock my car when I go out and take the key with me ! Quite natural I would have thought. No it didnt work but you never know until you try do you same with most things.
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I don't do slanging matches (or even 'marches'). What I am hoping is that you will understand that your behaviour is unreasonable, unjustifiable and self-defeating. If you find that other riders can hack your horse out, it seems fairly obvious that the fault does NOT lie with him. Therefore, I suggest that you get some lessons. No instructor I have ever met will suggest twisting an ear or poking with a key.
 
OP I know what you mean when I got my lad he was very nervous of being out on his own. What I did was what Zebedee suggested and thats long reining.
I took him on the roads down the bridlepaths until he was 100% happy. Not only did my bond build up with him but just gentley talking to him letting him take in his surroundings and the sounds. This built up mine and his confidence. When I decided we were ready to go out I got my friend to come with us. Very calmly talking to him making sure he was happy and I was much more relaxed. The thing your probably worried about, which I was, was falling off and him running away and causing an accident, being with a friend gave me confidence to know someone else was there. Gradually she would walk up the road with me to the bridlepath (he was never bothered by traffic) and then she walked less and less with me. I always talked to him or sung to him and tobehonest we never looked back. Also instead of riding him all the time we play games in the school and generally have fun. Believe me I know how you feel and its not fun having a horse that you dread riding sometimes.
 
Longeing horses does help get them fit. However, if it is done properly, and the horse worked correctly rather than just being allowed to career round in a circle doing what it pleases (a very common occurrence these days), it is an excellent method for teaching the horse to listen to the handler, and to teach him to be responsive and obedient. In fact, a competently longed horse will become obedient long before he is fit, so he will be safe to ride when the time comes, regardless of his fitness.

Like berpisc, I favour longreining as a means of producing a safe, willing and brave riding horse but, as with longeing, not everyone has the confidence or ability to do it properly.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry you consider my post @n '@tt@ck', the w@y your post w@s written reminded me of someone who h@s studied the theory but not the pr@ctic@l. No offence intended:D
 
Alicemary, I have just worked out what the problem may be, you thought that twisting his ear was similar to the twist throttle on a motorbike, perhaps?
 
blazingsaddles said:
I'm sorry you consider my post @n '@tt@ck', the w@y your post w@s written reminded me of someone who h@s studied the theory but not the pr@ctic@l. No offence intended:D
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Actually, my post was based on sound horsemanship practices which seem, sadly, to be lacking these days. I work on a stud/breaking/driving yard, and we do demonstrations for college students. ;) Oh, and it is on planet Earth.
 
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I second the last comment, the ear and throttle comment was very funny!!

On to the serious stuff now... I completely sympathise, my fella is exactly like this, and has absolutely no self preservation at all when it comes to napping. He will bolt into feilds leaping like a fool, back into ditches, rear, spin - well, anything to avoid going where I want to go, when we are on our own on a hack.

So, what to do? Well, I have taken it right back to the beginning, I never hack out alone now, I only ever hack out with another horse. This is not my aim forever, but at least for now, he can start to associate hacking out as a relaxing ride out with his mates. I also ride out with someone walking with us, and the other horse, and to train him to go in front and lead the other horse, I walk him ahead of the other horse, and sit him behind our foot patrol friend. He has responded really well to this, and now happily leads.

Hacking out in company has obviously limited when and how often I can ride, as I am completely dependant on others, but at least he is happy and relaxed.

I also take advantage of when he is feeling brave, and when he is forward going, plonk him in the lead, so he can get confidence at being the leader, in front and on his own.
Another thing I have done a lot of, of late, is leading him along very short hack routes, with his friend, with me on the ground. I always make sure he is leading, and that he has lots of fun. This has really bolstered his confidence.

I also noted another comment about being patient, and sitting and waiting for them to go forward when they are napping. I second this, when my fella won't go where I want him to go, I now stop, ask nothing, get him to stand still, give him time to take it all in, and then ask again. I repeat this until I get a forward step, then lots of praise.

I completely empathise with you on this, there are loads of us out there going through the same thing. As frustrating as it is, bear with it, and avoid using that throttle!!!

Take care, L xx
 
The worst napper I ever came across (and I'd been dumb enough to buy!) was cured quite easily! I just had my M-i-L come and stay! (Actually, I didn't do it on purpose, just the way it happened!) I waited until I was SO mad that I'd have killed her if I'd stayed in the house, then went and jumped on nappy horse! Didn't nap once!! (and prior to that, I'd had 3-4 episodes of napping just getting up the drive and out the front gate!)

Obviously, M-i-L had to go - but I'd learned what THAT horse needed. I had to psyche myself up into a 'one of us will die before you win' mood before I got on! Buthe WAS a Cleveland Bay x Anglo-Arab!

The FIRST thing you need to do is to think back through the time you've had this horse and try to identify when things started to go wrong - and try to remember if anything else happened at about that time (to the horse, or to you) that could have triggered this crisis of confidence! And it IS about confidence - your confidence in the horse and your ability to encourage him forward and HIS lack of confidence in you as his 'leader'!

Then youneed to go back to basics. Get him on the lunge and teach him voice commands- walk, trot and whoa at least! Get him word perfect. Use those voice commands every time you ride him. Pick your routes as carefully as circumstances allow. If he naps, you need to be able to deal with it safely!

Forget waiting it out - it'll work eventually as he'll get bored and move - but it won't stop him doing it again and again. The second he starts to stop, turn him on a tight circle - literally on the spot - 6 times, then 'walk on'! If he doesn't, spin him again, and again. Until he's GLAD to walk forward.

This is of course assuming you've checked out back and mouth - and saddle fit. Issues with teeth, or back pain, can cause napping!

I never hack out alone now
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A very good friend of mine - a great horsewoman - always said: "My horse doesn't hack alone, he hacks with ME!" IF horse is confident in his rider, he doesn't NEED other horses!
 
I sympathise as had a napping horse the first year I had him. He started, after a short honeymoon period, being awkward both to catch and then planting when out. He would stop dead and then reverse (backing up towards deep ditches at speed) or try and keep turning (sometimes even when we were hacking out with others!). I realised when he started to nap on the road it was not safe so wouldn't ride out unless I had company and I was having weekly then fortnightly lessons to work on my aids and build up our relationship. Eventually as he got used to all the different rides and we started enjoying being out together again we got there. Absolutely agree with JG above, usually at its base is a confidence issue between horse and rider. When I looked back I could indeed identify 2-3 early hacks we did when I first got him where he got very frightened meeting things he'd not met before (field full of quad bikes racing, and a ride through old overgrown very dark track and a quarry) and I also remembered how nervous I was of his reactions on those rides and I think they were key moments. So what turned it round for us was building our confidence together again as I think when I got worried by his napping he felt it and lost confidence in me. And the fact that he didn't want to be caught by me too for a while also hinted that he was feeling unsure. I don't mind admitting that during that time I had to be very firm with him when safety was an issue so yes a sharp smack with a crop used just to send him forward but if he naps now (which he will still do occasionally, and earlier this week going through a dark section of track,), I just give him his front end so he can't use that against me and use my legs and seat to send him forward, backed up with a tap behind the leg and if necessary a firm voice command though not shouting. The best bit was the day I managed to get him out again by himself again for the first time - picked my day and was mentally prepared, feeling confident etc and he was great bless him, never put a foot wrong. It's a long road but worth it once you've got it sorted.
 
Here's some good advice, hope you can find it in all the postings! Consider talking to Jason Webb about getting some help. Very reasonably priced and only in Goudhurst. He has helped so many people I've met with their horses, I think he would really help you with this. He doesn't just work with the horse, he works with the person as well.
 
With regards as to what started it - it could be as simple as: one day he wasn't in the mood for going out and planted/backed up, found he got away with it, and thought he'd use it from now on whenever he feels like it.

The others have all posted helpful suggestions about how to overcome it, so i won't say much, but perserverence really is key - coupled with rewarding 'good' behaviour strongly - as soon as he starts to move forward (even a little bit), allow him to do so with no pressure, only putting it back on when he slows / stops. He'll soon learn he can't do exactly as he pleases and that it's much easier just to walk out like a good boy!
 
Forget waiting it out - it'll work eventually as he'll get bored and move - but it won't stop him doing it again and again.
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Can't agree with this - as it certainly worked for me with a nappy horse.


When the horse moves backwards say nothing, take your legs off and make her stand. Just sit there - don't ask for anything, and if the horse moves forward - again make her stand. You may be sitting there for two hours but at some point you can ask her to move forward and she will walk forward. Even if only for a few strides - and then praise, and start all over again.

One thing is for sure - this horse will make you a better rider. But please don't twist the ear, it's the most appalling thing to do.
 
Our youngster used to do this- simply stop and decide to go no further.

Have you tried simply sitting there for as long as it takes- if he so much as moves a foot give him plenty of pats/encouragement. If he turns towards home- turn him back to face the way you want to go. Eventually he should realise he's not allowed back home and he either stands there ...or moves forwards.

You do feel a bit of a plonker just sat there with dog-walkers going past etc but it really worked for me....I can hack him out anywhere alone or in company now.
 
I agree with Amymay's comments.

Twisting the ear is horrific, I do not see how that solves anything. Nor does working your horse into the ground in the school/ on the lunge nor hitting it with the whip or a dig with spurs. As you probably already know.

How is your actual relationship with your horse? It sounds like he needs some confidence so go right back to basic's. Can you walk him out inhand? Have you tried long lining him, this can help build masses of confidence. I wouldn't even consider trying to hack him out until you can do both of the above perfectly. Make it easy for him to do the right thing and build his confidence slowly. It might take months but it would eventually be worth it.

I haven't read the whole thread but are you 100% sure your horse isn't in pain? Have you had a proper look at your saddle and by that I mean drop the panels out of it and have a proper feel, it's actually quite horrific some of the things which can cause so much pain under the panels which we would never know about.

Try not to think he's just being stubborn, naughty etc - horses brains do not have the capacity to think like this however much we put human emotions and behaviours on them. It totally blinds us to the real under lying issue.

Good luck, I hope you start to make some progress.
 
Sit it out. Take him for a hack at 8am, and be prepared to spend all day sat there. He WILL get bored.

Someone said yesterday they cured napping by being chased down the lane with a friend with a lunge whip....! think it might work if you can sit a bolt and know they wont rear!!!
 
My boy did this for a while, and I can understand that you get angry and want to try pretty much anything.

I took my boy jogging with me down the roads/paths he didn't like, and if he stopped we "zig-zag"ed as he would move sideways but not straight forward - this worked wonders, and he soon realised that he was passed the point where we normally stopped so the habit was quickly broken.
 
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