horse homeopathy? :)

Homeopathy cannot be given out in anything but water form because of its own principles. If people claim to give it out in tablet or cream form they are double quacks - they are quacks even by the standards of homeopathy.

Homeopathy claims the following:
- like cures like. So you treat an infection with an infection. (this would be bloody dangerous if not for...)
- the more diluted a substance is the more potent it becomes because (wait for it)
- water retains a 'memory' of the substance that it used to contain, so even though that substance is now imperceptible, water 'remembers' the substance which goes on to cure the problem.

To be fair if you're going to buy that water has a 'memory' then you might as well believe that tablets or creams have memories as well!
 
If as so many are saying that homeopathy does not work how is it that homeopathic vets treat and cure their patients?is it likely that say laminitis would just go with no treatment
as the homeopathic tablets would be useless if used to treat it?
 
howsthat said:
If as so many are saying that homeopathy does not work how is it that homeopathic vets treat and cure their patients?is it likely that say laminitis would just go with no treatment
as the homeopathic tablets would be useless if used to treat it?
Click to expand...

It's called "regression to the mean". The fact is that most ailments, human and animal, will resolve themselves within weeks or months no matter what medicines you take in the meantime. So most homeopathy will "work", in that the patient will get better. Wrapping a wet towel round your head for a month would have the same effect.

No-one in their right minds would treat laminitis solely with homeopathy. So it's the other, dull, routine things that people do that work, but they like to attribute it to the magic water.

Homeopathy has never, ever, been shown to work in a scientifically controlled situation. I don't believe that it ever will

Herbal remedies, on the other hand. Yes, I use them all the time. I take extract of willow bark for my headaches, for example, it comes in a bottle marked "aspirin".


ps homeopathic human doctors work, by the way, because an average homeopathic consultation is an hour and a half while your GP has 7-10 minutes. It's the talking that works, not the water!
 
Last edited:
Faracat said:
But has the willow bark been LD50 tested? :p
Click to expand...

Oddly F I often wonder this about older drugs. Well in a round about way.And yes, I am a geek.

Drugs that came to market 60+ years ago no way went through the same process as current drugs do with regards to DMPK testing and clinical trials. The face of safety testing has changed enormously even in the last 30 or so years. So, do you have to retrospectively prove their safety or do the FDA and MHRA just accept that as there hasn't been a (documented) problem thus far that they must be ok? Obviously there won't be a documented problem as no post launch monitoring protocol is in place so how do they prove it?

And round and round I go thinking about this and never reaching a conclusion. I'd ask the MHRA but they are the least helpful organisation I have ever come across! :p
 
Booboos said:
Apologies if I am misunderstanding your post but of course you need to be trained to prescibe drugs, but homeopathic remedies are not drugs so anyone can hand them out - they are water and treated as such by the law, medical councils, and veterinary governing bodies. No disrespect but whoever said at your uni that only vets can give out homeopathic treatments was wrong. To confirm this just walk into any pharmacy and buy homeopathic remedies, you will find you do not need any type of prescription for either human or animal use.

The reason you need a vet's permission for getting someone else to see your horse is because your horse is under the vet's care who is ultimately responsible for the animal's welfare. This covers other veterinary professionals such as physiotherapists, but not quacks such as aura readers or mind readers because what they do has no effect!
Click to expand...


You are wrong. It is illegal for anyone but a vet to diagnose and prescribe treatment for an animal. Anyone can give the treatment but a vet must agree to it being given. Whilst anyone can buy a human homeopathic treatment and give it to a horse, the diagnosis of the problem for which the homeopathy is being given (irrespective that it is water in the bottle) must, by law, be done by a vet.

Go into boots and ask what homeopathic remedy you should give to your horse. They should, if they are properly trained, tell you that they are unable to sell you what you want if you tell them that it is for a horse. For example, when I buy magnesium sulphate poulticing paste or benzyl benzoate in my local Boots, I have to pretend that I have a child with a boil or classful with head lice or they will not sell me it :)

The law allows a vet to treat a human but a doctor cannot treat a horse. This is a legal issue, not a case of civil responsibility.

To legally diagnose animals and prescribe a homeopathic remedy, a person must first qualify as a vet, and then study again to qualify as a homeopathist.
 
Last edited:
cptrayes said:
It's called "regression to the mean". The fact is that most ailments, human and animal, will resolve themselves within weeks or months no matter what medicines you take in the meantime. So most homeopathy will "work", in that the patient will get better. Wrapping a wet towel round your head for a month would have the same effect.

No-one in their right minds would treat laminitis solely with homeopathy. So it's the other, dull, routine things that people do that work, but they like to attribute it to the magic water.

Homeopathy has never, ever, been shown to work in a scientifically controlled situation. I don't believe that it ever will

Herbal remedies, on the other hand. Yes, I use them all the time. I take extract of willow bark for my headaches, for example, it comes in a bottle marked "aspirin".


ps homeopathic human doctors work, by the way, because an average homeopathic consultation is an hour and a half while your GP has 7-10 minutes. It's the talking that works, not the water!
Click to expand...

This is also proof that there is an exception to every rule. I don't think I've ever agreed with you before, and yet I agree with 100% of this post :p
 
Stretching my memory back to A level Chemistry, I recall that aspirin was tested by the chemist who first synthesised it on his father (:eek: what a caring son :rolleyes:), obviously thought 'well it didn't kill him, so must be fine' and marketed it. This was around the turn of last century.

Apparently when they then brought in licensing and testing of new medications there was essentially a prior use type clause so drugs that had been used for x years without showing significant negative side effects did not have to undergo clinical safety trials. This is being remembered from a dodgy A level text book though, so take with a pinch of salt!

ETA: think this site answers any questions about the mechanisms of how homeopathy works http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/
 
Last edited:
It was quite common back in the day for eccentric scientists to test out their pet theories and drugs and such on their families, including their children... Tis a fine line between madness and genius, they do say :p
 
JFTD said:
It was quite common back in the day for eccentric scientists to test out their pet theories and drugs and such on their families, including their children... Tis a fine line between madness and genius, they do say :p
Click to expand...

But you haven't answered my question!!

Malibu Stacey, that sounds pretty sensible and I'm sure that is how it works. If everyone had to retest every time a new requirement was introduced that would be pretty mad. There are EP and USP updates at least once or twice a year after all!

Makes you think though doesn't it? Some of our best loved drugs are probably pretty much untested by any modern standards :eek:
 
I'd ask the MHRA but they are the least helpful organisation I have ever come across!
Click to expand...

typical. :rolleyes:




I have often wondered re homeopathy (whenever it is mentioned on HHO as a possible treatment option) and the placebo effect... how do you get the horse to believe that the special water will help him/her get better?
 
Faracat said:
I have often wondered re homeopathy (whenever it is mentioned on HHO as a possible treatment option) and the placebo effect... how do you get the horse to believe that the special water will help him/her get better?
Click to expand...

You use your animal communicator to tell them of course :p :D
 
Faracat said:
typical. :rolleyes:




I have often wondered re homeopathy (whenever it is mentioned on HHO as a possible treatment option) and the placebo effect... how do you get the horse to believe that the special water will help him/her get better?
Click to expand...



The letter that was pointed to, written by a vet, was interesting. It basically says that owners convince themselves, or are convinced by their homeopathic vet, that their animal is getting better, even though it isn't.

I've also seen a lot of people give homeopathic remedies at the same time as making changes to diet and routine, or doing things like twice daily cold hosing, and then they claim a miraculous effect for the little white tablets!

And then of course you have regression to the mean, where the horse was always going to get better anyway, but of course it has to be the magic water that caused it :)
 
Last edited:
jesstickle said:
But you haven't answered my question!!
Click to expand...

I can't. Even though I studied pharmacology in reasonable detail :o

Though I believe there are a series of interesting papers on the toxicity profile of bute in ponies, performed by one of the Profs at the RVC in the 80s. I remember going to his retirement lecture when I was an undergrad... Scared the heck out of me :o
 
Malibu_Stacy said:
ETA: think this site answers any questions about the mechanisms of how homeopathy works http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/
Click to expand...

PMSL! :D

Malibu_Stacy said:
TBF aspirin has undergone many clinical trials... just none assessing its safety/ efficacy for what it is primarily marketed for!
Click to expand...

I suppose that is a very good point for aspirin and probably a lot of others. I bet penicillin hasn't ever been through a proper trial either. I think the original trial involved one police man and he died in the end. I'm pretty sure a test population of one where 100% of the population dies despite treatment and no placebo group or blinding is involved would not be considered entirely ok by today's standards lol :D

Faracat said:
:o Oh golly, I feel so silly. Why didn't I think of that. Can they do it over the 'ether' with just a photo of said horse, or do I have to pay a call out fee so they can tell the horse in person? :confused:
Click to expand...


Of course they can. Do you doubt the power of the homeopathic animal communicator? They can work their magic from the other side of the globe if they need to :mad:
 
How's that - in a word yes. You say your horse had accelerated wound healing - when compared to what? Wvery animal can have a different rate of healing and there are many differences between wounds that seem the same. It is very difficult to accurately say that a treatment has increased the rate of healing without using a controlled study.
Also, I am intrigued - laminitis tested by homeopathy? I trust you kept your horse/pony on the exact same management as they were on prior to and at the start if the laminitis bout? No shavings, no reduced grazing, no trimming or showing? Many of the injuries a horse gets can and usually will improve with just rest - it is our impatience (as owners) that mean we look to treatments that will speed the healing process up. Also the use of veterinary medications and treatments allow us to keep our horses comfortable while nature does her job.
 
Of course they can. Do you doubt the power of the homeopathic animal communicator? They can work their magic from the other side of the globe if they need to
Click to expand...

Fantastic. :D ;)



It basically says that owners convince themselves, or are convinced by their homeopathic vet, that their animal is getting better, even though it isn't.
Click to expand...

I suppose I just don't get how people fool themselves to that extent.
 
And just to add homeopathy is b****x. I also would not trust any vet or doctor who says it does. However I guess they are just seizing the opportunity to cash in on the fools who have money than sense.
I have however seen some improvements with acupuncture - though more for musculoskeletal issues and the effects have always been quite short lived. For internal issues I'm not so convinced though I have often used the nasal planum to stimulate a slow calf or lamb at birth with good effect.
 
glenruby said:
And just to add homeopathy is b****x. I also would not trust any vet or doctor who says it does. However I guess they are just seizing the opportunity to cash in on the fools who have money than sense.
I have however seen some improvements with acupuncture - though more for musculoskeletal issues and the effects have always been quite short lived. For internal issues I'm not so convinced though I have often used the nasal planum to stimulate a slow calf or lamb at birth with good effect.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your ignorant judgemental comment, i am of the opinion that it works and am nobodys fool, and as for paying for homeopathy, nobody is asking you to put your hand in your pocket to pay for it so BOLLOX to you and your closed minded comment ;)
 
marydoll said:
I disagree with your ignorant judgemental comment, i am of the opinion that it works and am nobodys fool, and as for paying for homeopathy, nobody is asking you to put your hand in your pocket to pay for it so BOLLOX to you and your closed minded comment ;)
Click to expand...

Homeopathy does not work. Fact. Opinion doesn't come into it. It fails every double blind experiment that it is subjected to. The placebo effect however does work and it is this, not the special water or the way that you tap it as you do your dilutions, that has an effect.

If you are happy to continue using it - in full knowlage that it works via placebo - then fine. No-one is being conned and it will do no harm.
 
marydoll said:
I disagree with your ignorant judgemental comment, i am of the opinion that it works and am nobodys fool, and as for paying for homeopathy, nobody is asking you to put your hand in your pocket to pay for it so BOLLOX to you and your closed minded comment ;)
Click to expand...

It's a bit harsh to call this poster ignorant - their comments are in line with the current scientific understanding. If you chose to disagree with the results of the published trials which discredit homeopathy, that is, naturally your choice. However, it doesn't make someone who disagrees with you ignorant, or closed minded.
 
This has kind of tailed off from my original post lol... Everyone has an opinion great but you cannot say someone elses comment is bollox... Its rude & until someone has complete
proof that homeopathy works/doesnt all comments are opinion :)
 
SarahRicoh said:
This has kind of tailed off from my original post lol... Everyone has an opinion great but you cannot say someone elses comment is bollox... Its rude & until someone has complete
proof that homeopathy works/doesnt all comments are opinion :)
Click to expand...

But when do we stop trying to prove it does/doesn't work? When will people actually LOOK at the studies which already exist? Even the FDA have reclassified arnica as an 'unsafe herb' :rolleyes:
 
rhino said:
But when do we stop trying to prove it does/doesn't work? When will people actually LOOK at the studies which already exist? Even the FDA have reclassified arnica as an 'unsafe herb' :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Good lord, accept scientific data over tradition and "natural" safety :eek: Are you mad, rhino?

:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top