horse I have for sale keeps failing vettings - what to do?

Roasted Chestnuts

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Op I just don't understand why you don't get that people aren't going to pay 3.5k for what is essentially a lame horse?

I refuse to pay more than 1.5k for any horse in fact the only horse I've paid that price for I've done everything with over 15yrs, I've still got him, he's 25 now and still sound. Wouldn't expect him to pass a flexion test at his age but he's still happy and healthy.

Your choices are drop the price dramatically and be honest as to why, get the vet out unless you have been silly and cancelled the horses insurance or never had it insured to begin with, get a farrier out to look at the feet, turn the horse away for six months then try again. As at present nobody is going to buy a horse for that amount that hasn't passed a vetting. Too many sound horses out there at that price for yours to be special enough to take a chance on.

Sorry if it's blunt but I just don't understand why you're complaining.
 
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ester

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Because I think I had him up for too much to start with, and I need to sell him ASAP as I have a new horse that is more suited to me and he is on sales livery. So I want him moved on as soon as I can.

Also, the first vetting I kind of thought was a one off. He had back, shoes etc done, and then the second and third vettings happened in the same week.

I don't think investigating the issue will help. I would just spend a fortune on trying to diagnose an issue on a horse I'm not keeping. And then what? Either it's something that needs treating, which will cost more money and will render him unsaleable, or it's something untreatable, which would render him unsaleable.

He is only showing lame after flexion, and it's a very, very mild lameness, so I don't think warrants xrays etc. Flexion tests are notoriously odd anyway.

Really appreciate this thank you. I am very upset and stressed about the whole thing. He's a lovely person just not right for me. And I want him to go to a good home.

To all the other posters I haven't said anywhere that I don't want to get a vet out. I just wanted opinions to understand any options I may not have thought of.

As regards what the sales livery thinks, as we are being honest with all potential purchasers there is not much we can do to stop them having him vetted! I presume they are using their own vets to get an opinion they trust and to take a view on the risk.

Just to help you see where you said you didn't want to get the vet out and to check with myself that I and others are not going mad.

It was more that the sales livery, if reputable and wanting to keep that reputation would likely want to stop presenting him for vettings - which might mean taking him off the market until the issue is clarified and hopefully resolved and if not you have more information to give. I don't think that an issue now there are 3 to disclose though, I can understand people shrugging off one of flexion but not 3. I am slightly curious whether the 3rd vetting knew about the 2nd failure as you say they happened in quite quick succession.

I guess he isn't insured as it then wouldn't be an issue. The main issue here as I see it is investigating an issue that only shows up on flexion and therefore might not be nerve blockable so you might be limited to just getting xrays to show no arthritis etc.

Have all vettings included all stages or have they just started with that leg? and if so was he lunged on hard etc and ok on it?
 
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[59668]

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He is insured.

I didn't say I didn't want to get the vet out. I said I didn't think investigating would help.

I'm backing out of this. Thank you for all the opinions as it's food for thought. But as with most things on this forum it gets vindictive, judgemental and upsetting.

People have actually gone back through my posts from last year to try and trip me up?! So to those asking, this is a different horse from the one suffering lameness issues last year. That horse is still mine but is out on loan to a happy hacking home as despite all the vet treatment available he didn't come right. So obviously I don't care about my horses.
 
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ester

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Oh well if he is insured I really don't see the issue? Unless he has a massive excess and the 'more money' it will cost to treat any issues found highlighted in the post I quoted isn't relevant either.

Well presumably if you didn't think it would help you didn't intend to get the vet out the two go hand in hand surely? You can hardly say it could be interpreted as terribly keen to get the vet out to investigate. The general consensus seems to be that it would help a great deal.
 
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CleanShavings

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Another option is too lvtb, that way he be off sales livery and someone could test him out for a few months knowing the failed flex tests. You could state the horse must be shod by a certain farrier if you think it could possibly be something to do his feet. He is obviously coping with a work load at the moment being on sales livery. What was he doing before sales livery- was he in full work or out in a paddock? If you do choose to go down this route make sure that keep up his insurance incase something does come up.
 

Leo Walker

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I'm not sure I actually understand this! If my horse failed a vetting flexion test then I would be a bit suspicious as flexion tests can be a bit misleading, but the VERY first thing I would do, is to get my vet out, who I trust, we would talk about it then he would examine the horse and give me his opinion. Mine isnt for sale, but if he was it would be as safe happy hacker and even in those circumstances I'd want him checked out.

If I'd gone a bit mad and just reduced his price thinking it was a one off, if he failed again I'd be having a heart attack and he'd be having a full work up. Failing 3 times, even if its just flexion tests is pretty damning evidence there is a real issue. And thats coming from someone who would be selling a bombproof happy hacker, ie something with no real demands placed on it.

I know these arent the answers you want, but actually the RC market can be the hardest to sell too. They arent pros who will pass a horse on if its not right, they want a sound, straight horse to do a low level job, they dont want to keep a horse in retirement and they absolutely do NOT want to have a "pet" horse PTS.

The pros will buy a talented horse in the hope they can turn it around and if they cant they will pass it on. The people who think they are pros will take him on thinking they can turn him around for a huge profit and when they cant they will pass him on. Then there are the people who want a mega bucks horse on the cheap. They will also pass him on when it turns out they cant.

The lovely RC home you want will absoultely NOT pay in the thousands for a horse with a serious question mark over its soundness. They can afford one horse and they want it to be sound and able.

Hes "sound" and hes insured, I doubt anything you find will write him off totally. There are homes for light hacks if needs be. Get him worked up with a good vet and find out what the issues are. He WILL sell for an appropriate price if you know what the problem is. Thats a much more viable sale than something on sales livery after his owner has a new horse that has failed three vettings!
 

SatansLittleHelper

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OP I don't believe anyone is trying to attack you or say you don't care about your horses...I also get that you are frustrated but you are not helping yourself here.
Horse is insured, get him seen to...Simples 😊
 

SusieT

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Why on earth would you expect anyone to spend a few thousand pounds buying a horse that the current owner can't be bothered or doesn't want to spend any money on investigating? Failing on one limb only on flexion means there probably is a problem, and with time and work you have NO idea if it will get worse as you have NO idea what is causing it.
Three vets see the horse is lame, as it's owner you either drop the price to very low (1000 or so) and accept you are burying your head in the sand, or investigate to see if it is treatable or loan.
 

ycbm

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I have a new horse that is more suited to me and he is on sales livery. So I want him moved on as soon as I can.

This is the crux of the issue, isn't it?

You already have a new horse. You want rid of the old one as soon as possible. If you investigate the lameness and it requires treatment over a long time or shows a degenerative condition, you'll be stuck with him. But you also want a decent amount of money for him.

Your objectives aren't compatible unless you find a buyer with a vet who doesn't do front flexions or doesn't want a vet at all. You've either got to let him go for a song, or get him fixed, or hang out for that buyer.
 

Louby-Jay

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This seems really materialistic to me.

Do you not care enough about the horse to get this rectified before potentially more damage is made to the horse, and potentially end up going through auction in the future.

I know morally, I wouldn't be able to do that.

Agree with others; options are either LWVTB, keep and turn away for a few months (I had to do this with my TB) and drastically reduce the price to coincide with the failed vettings.

Has I mentioned before, I wouldn't buy a horse that was over 1.5K without it passing a vetting never mind up to 3.5K!

And if you were being truly honest with the potential buyers, then why would they insist on another vetting... I once sold a horse that I deemed as sound but failed vettings (I got this looked into and he had a shortened tendon on one side- suitable for hacking though). I was honest with the owners and said he wouldn't pass, they didn't vet him (waste of money as they knew) and purchased him anyway.

Another thing to look into is which vet are the sales livery using? You might think that you trust them but these people are out to milk money out of anyone any which way that they can... If they can keep the horse on sales livery for longer or potentially make you reduce the price thinking the horse is unsaleable, then they could buy it off you at the reduced price. Just a thought, I have known this to happen.
 

rachk89

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This seems really materialistic to me.

And if you were being truly honest with the potential buyers, then why would they insist on another vetting... I once sold a horse that I deemed as sound but failed vettings (I got this looked into and he had a shortened tendon on one side- suitable for hacking though). I was honest with the owners and said he wouldn't pass, they didn't vet him (waste of money as they knew) and purchased him anyway.

This.

In all honesty, your actions just sound suspicious and I wouldnt buy the horse based on that. You're wanting rid of a horse as quickly as possible, who is not up to your standards and isnt suitable for your level of riding, is failing flexion tests and you're wondering why its not selling? It all just screams of dishonesty.

Plus as Louby-Jay, if you have been honest why are they getting vettings done? I wouldnt be wasting my money on a vetting because a) if I was interested anyway, I would buy it without the vetting if I was willing to take the chance or b) if I wasnt willing to take the chance, I would walk away before attempting a vetting and wasting my money.

Sorry, but you are going back and forth between not wanting to investigate it to wanting to investigate it as well once people asked you why you didnt. If this was a dealer saying all of this, they would be slaughtered for it.

Your options are basically:
1. take him off sales livery and put in a field for a year to rest
2. take him off sales livery and sell yourself, being fully honest and saying he wont pass a vetting
3. leave him on sales livery and keep wasting your money and time
4. get him investigated by a vet and fix him if possible
5. Try and do a loan or LWVTB.

Pick one or combine, but thats about it for your options.
 

luckilotti

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I havent read past page 5 however a few thoughts.

Are you there when the potential purchasers are viewing etc or are you leaving it all in the hands of the sales livery staff etc? Could it be that they say something, maybe innocently about failed flexion tests and arthritis or something about some other horse - something to plant that seed of doubt in the buyers mind about continuing with the purchase?
Has it been the same vet/practice doing the vettings?
What to me doesnt make sense is that they have been warned about the failed vetting, gone ahead and had another, but walked away when the same issue came up - to me - that screams that someone, somewhere is putting doubt in their mind!! They clearly were interested to continue with a vetting knowing the history...


I have previously bought a horse that would fail a vetting on a flexion test, but i paid accordingly for him (£950 - but that was back in 1998), today... if i went for another, i would expect to pay under £1000 if mid teens onwards, maybe at a push a bit more if younger HOWEVER - if younger i would be thinking that said horse would probably need early retirement so would be thinking about that - but i am a home for life type rather than one who buys a horse to suit my needs at the time and then sell on etc.
 

be positive

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I havent read past page 5 however a few thoughts.

Are you there when the potential purchasers are viewing etc or are you leaving it all in the hands of the sales livery staff etc? Could it be that they say something, maybe innocently about failed flexion tests and arthritis or something about some other horse - something to plant that seed of doubt in the buyers mind about continuing with the purchase?
Has it been the same vet/practice doing the vettings?
What to me doesnt make sense is that they have been warned about the failed vetting, gone ahead and had another, but walked away when the same issue came up - to me - that screams that someone, somewhere is putting doubt in their mind!! They clearly were interested to continue with a vetting knowing the history...


I have previously bought a horse that would fail a vetting on a flexion test, but i paid accordingly for him (£950 - but that was back in 1998), today... if i went for another, i would expect to pay under £1000 if mid teens onwards, maybe at a push a bit more if younger HOWEVER - if younger i would be thinking that said horse would probably need early retirement so would be thinking about that - but i am a home for life type rather than one who buys a horse to suit my needs at the time and then sell on etc.

The seed of doubt will have been planted when the buyers were told he failed vetting 1, this may have been just a minor knock so they went ahead with a vetting of their own, when the same issue showed up then they were aware that is may be more than just bad luck the first time so they took the advice of their vet and walked away.

This has been covered many times in this thread, a new purchaser comes along, likes the horse but in the price range it is in they still feel the need to vet it, in most circumstances the horse would pass the 2nd vetting if it was not unsound in some way, that it still shows lame in what is a standard test shows there is something going on and unless someone decides to take a risk the horse will remain unsold without the issue being looked into.

I have sold dozens over the years and while a few have failed none failed a 2nd vetting as either the fail was just due to something minor that recovered or the horse was investigated and treated, if appropriate, only one that I can think of was found to have a real issue that required treatment and a considerable drop in price, he failed the front flexions and did show changes on xrays although he had been in full work and totally sound, he went back to his owner for a while then was sold with full declaration once he had received treatment and was sound.
 

Louby-Jay

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Probably because there is a lot more to a horse than one forelimb.

This is true but if I've taken something away from this thread, it's that the potential buyers are walking away from the horse with the same highlighted issue. Perhaps I should have elaborated on that a little more.
 

rachk89

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Probably because there is a lot more to a horse than one forelimb.

So they are aware of an issue, get a vetting done and walk away because of the issue they knew about?

Either lied to or there has been 3 people who enjoy wasting their money and time.
 

ester

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My guess is that they hoped that as it was on flexion it would not react the same with a different vet. Whereas it has and was bad enough for the vet to pull the plug and not to suggest any further investigation/rest and retest etc which can happen.

We don't know if those that had the 3rd vetting knew about the 2nd failure, it sounds like not as were the same week but not specified. That in itself I find a bit odd practice because usually one would only have one purchaser have a vetting booked at a time.
It also hasn't been clarified whether all the vettings have been full and thorough or if they have started with that leg first and decided not to proceed any further.
 

old hand

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I had a horse with a professional for sale following building up a competition record with them. He failed the vet with two lame steps on flexion. I arranged x rays for the next day and he had a spavin forming. I collected him and set about working him sound, he then jumped for a season and a half and was put up for sale as a hack. We believed him sound but the spavin x rays were made available to the purchaser, he failed again so a loan with a view to buy for a nominal sum was agreed. An unsound horse is an unsound horse and has little value unless the new owner is able to manage the problem and the workload. My chap needed daily work and turnout , not everyone can manage that 365 days a year so realistically it was more important where he went ( if at all) than how much he was worth. He is now back for good,- totally different problem and is now staying put, but he was always Denice the Menace.
 
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