Horse is fitting after head injury- what are my chances?

Emotional me says get her drugged up. Practical me says you need to find out IF she is coping without sedation. I had to do the same with my dog. After much distress, she came out the other end, but keeping her permanently "Under" will hide if her brain is healing.

Have many hugs.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm 'sort-of' with your vet. If with no pain relief, she reverts back to 'fitting', then there is only one answer. If she can cope, albeit with difficulty, without pain relief, but deteriorates, then again, there is only one answer.

H_H, you must listen to your vet. What I've done at such times when reason and logic seem in short supply, is ask the vet "Were she your horse, what would YOU do"?

I wish that I could be more positive.

Alec. (have a hug).
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I would be fine with that, but IMO she's not ready to drop the opiates completely- she's only been on them 60 hours! I don't see why he can't give her one more lower dose to keep her comfortable a little longer.

I said to him on Saturday, I was wiling to give her a chance, as long as he made her comfortable.

This isn't comfortable :(
 
I would be having strong words with
this vet and demanding to at least speak to you the senior partner of this practice but I am much older than OP and have learned from bitter experience. Unfortunately some vets let their ego get in the way of common sense
 
Can you contact a specialist in neurology at Edinburgh or one of the other vet schools, just to talk over related cases, probable outcomes, length of treatment, because this is what your vet should be doing. Just thinking about a human head injury, it took the oh a week before he stopped seeing double after a bad clonk on the head and he was on standard pain killers throughout, although he should have been on much stronger ones. Your vet should be able to tell you what could be going on, how long it should take to recover if there is no long lasting damage. If your vet can't, find one that can, or insist that your vet seeks a more experienced view of this type of head inury!
 
Really feel for you. When our horses are unwell and in pain we are so reliant on the experts and it's so horribly hard seeing your animal in pain and unhappy.

You have really been through the wringer over the last few days and must really be feeling it.

Bearing that in mind, it's incumbent on your vet to be really clear and patient when explaining to an exhausted and emotionally battered owner why they are recommending a particular mode of treatment, what alternatives there are and why they don't think the alternatives are best.

It's clear from your post this particular vet hasn't done that well enough on this occasion, and you are left looking at a horse in pain, not understanding why she can't be made more comfortable. That wouldn't sit right with any of us without a very good reason why it's in the horse's best interests.

So for that reason alone I think you're 100% justified in insisting on a second opinion from a more experienced vet in the practice who you trust to advise you.
 
Hi guys

I'm going to be honest, I still don't really understand why she isn't allowed anything other than anti inflammatories at this stage, but when I started to lose my temper with him (which I rarely do!) I asked him to explain to my mum on the phone rather than me just getting angry + confused

She checked with her own vet, and spoke to another vet at my own practice too.

Mum's not overly happy either, but she understands their reasoning, so I trust my mum. She's had an awful lot more experience than me, and pretty much got me through the weekend.

I'm tired and drained and I don't understand why the vets are doing this, but I guess I have no choice right now. Hopefully they're right, and she'll be stronger in the morning.
 
High Hope said:
Hi guys

I'm going to be honest, I still don't really understand why she isn't allowed anything other than anti inflammatories at this stage, but when I started to lose my temper with him (which I rarely do!) I asked him to explain to my mum on the phone rather than me just getting angry + confused

She checked with her own vet, and spoke to another vet at my own practice too.

Mum's not overly happy either, but she understands their reasoning, so I trust my mum. She's had an awful lot more experience than me, and pretty much got me through the weekend.

I'm tired and drained and I don't understand why the vets are doing this, but I guess I have no choice right now. Hopefully they're right, and she'll be stronger in the morning.
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Yes listen to your mum try and rest now and deal with it in the morning. Tomorrow is another day and hopefully as the days go by she will be getting stronger and feeling better.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm 'sort-of' with your vet. If with no pain relief, she reverts back to 'fitting', then there is only one answer. If she can cope, albeit with difficulty, without pain relief, but deteriorates, then again, there is only one answer.

H_H, you must listen to your vet. What I've done at such times when reason and logic seem in short supply, is ask the vet "Were she your horse, what would YOU do"?

I wish that I could be more positive.

Alec. (have a hug).
Click to expand...

ive followed your thread and hoped for good news, op i know how hard this is, but you have to get to a point and do the kindest thing. Ive argued with vets even been to court but at the end of the day we have to appreciate they normally ...whilst not knowing the horse like we do, proberly do know more than us, yes they get it wrong, but we can not prolong suffering to prove that.

I hope she has improved in the morning, truely i do but please please dont beat yourself up or the vets for another day of anyones suffering.

much love and hugs to you x
 
OMG I've just read through this whole thread first I've seen it.
All best wishes and thoughts to you High Hope your lovely horse your mum and everyone else involved.
You are doing everything you can - be proud of yourself xxx
 
Yet another dose of <<<vibes>>> for your mare. And some for you too, that you get some sleep and some clarity. It's great that you have your mum to use as a sounding board.
 
right...mummy's had enough now. I've had it with one particular vet at this practice. He condescendingly told my daughter that if you hit your head it's going to hurt!!
Funnily enough, he didn't use that tone with me!!
My honest opinion is that he's so afraid of being sued that he doesn't want to take a chance on anything that may cause side effects.

I'm very long in the tooth and I don't tolerate egotistical junior vets well.

Over the years I've had to deal with 3 horses with head injuries. One had neurological damage and was pts, another had lesser neurological damage and lived out her life as a babysitter to my foals. The third recovered fully as her problems, like this horse, mainly needed massive pain management while she had a chance to repair herself.
This morning i've demanded AGAIN that they speak to the specialist at Edinburgh and find out what else she can be given. My own vet has made suggestions but this guy we've had over the last few days doesn't want to hear it, after all "he's a vet".
We're refusing to use him now at all.
I've even considered asking for my own vet to travel 400 miles....ridiculous situation all round.

Mummy is on the warpath.

I won't let this little mare fade without giving her every chance...all she needs is for them to find the right pain relief for her, heaven knows, they do have enough in their arsenal, they just have to use common sense and have some guts.
 
Chloe-V said:
right...mummy's had enough now. I've had it with one particular vet at this practice. He condescendingly told my daughter that if you hit your head it's going to hurt!!
Funnily enough, he didn't use that tone with me!!
My honest opinion is that he's so afraid of being sued that he doesn't want to take a chance on anything that may cause side effects.

I'm very long in the tooth and I don't tolerate egotistical junior vets well.

Over the years I've had to deal with 3 horses with head injuries. One had neurological damage and was pts, another had lesser neurological damage and lived out her life as a babysitter to my foals. The third recovered fully as her problems, like this horse, mainly needed massive pain management while she had a chance to repair herself.
This morning i've demanded AGAIN that they speak to the specialist at Edinburgh and find out what else she can be given. My own vet has made suggestions but this guy we've had over the last few days doesn't want to hear it, after all "he's a vet".
We're refusing to use him now at all.
I've even considered asking for my own vet to travel 400 miles....ridiculous situation all round.

Mummy is on the warpath.

I won't let this little mare fade without giving her every chance...all she needs is for them to find the right pain relief for her, heaven knows, they do have enough in their arsenal, they just have to use common sense and have some guts.
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Go for it OP's Mum! Wishing you, your daughter and the mare extra strength for the battle ahead! As someone who was previously addicted to opiate painkillers I am convinced that sudden withdrawal of high dosage morphine is not the right thing to do.
 
Ive just read this. OP first of all MASSIVE HUGS! You have been through so much this last week and I can't believe how strong you've been. Youre little mare is so lucky she has you as her owner.
It sounds as though you have weathered the storm and come through the worst (fingers crossed) but I am so sorry you are having to now deal with your vet being an ass hat! It does sound like your mum has your back however :)
I hope it gets sorted and your girl gets the pain relief she needs. You have done brilliantly OP. Stay strong and look after yourself xxx
 
Yes, go for it Mum! You have to do what you have to do!
I am all in favour of second opinions. I had to do it with a human member of my family who was in hospital with a life threatening condition so rare that the docs were like rabbits in headlights too scared to treat. We finally demanded he be transferred to another specialist hospital. It saved his life. I would not hesitate to do a similar thing with a horse if I had to. Good luck. So sorry for what you all must be going through. Sending lots of vibes and hope you get some answers.
 
Chloe-V said:
right...mummy's had enough now. I've had it with one particular vet at this practice. He condescendingly told my daughter that if you hit your head it's going to hurt!!
Funnily enough, he didn't use that tone with me!!
My honest opinion is that he's so afraid of being sued that he doesn't want to take a chance on anything that may cause side effects.

I'm very long in the tooth and I don't tolerate egotistical junior vets well.

Over the years I've had to deal with 3 horses with head injuries. One had neurological damage and was pts, another had lesser neurological damage and lived out her life as a babysitter to my foals. The third recovered fully as her problems, like this horse, mainly needed massive pain management while she had a chance to repair herself.
This morning i've demanded AGAIN that they speak to the specialist at Edinburgh and find out what else she can be given. My own vet has made suggestions but this guy we've had over the last few days doesn't want to hear it, after all "he's a vet".
We're refusing to use him now at all.
I've even considered asking for my own vet to travel 400 miles....ridiculous situation all round.

Mummy is on the warpath.

I won't let this little mare fade without giving her every chance...all she needs is for them to find the right pain relief for her, heaven knows, they do have enough in their arsenal, they just have to use common sense and have some guts.
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Very well said Chloe :D You sound very much like my Mom and Nan, I can't tolerate egotistical young vets well either. Keeping my fingers crossed for you all!
 
Oh HH :-( The last I saw was your post where she had improved and you sounded positive. Having just read the last few pages, I am gutted for you!
I really hope you can get her the pain relief she needs. And she can keep going
Chloe, good on you! It's great that you have each other :-)
 
Well done Mum!

First, alleviate pain and discomfort, at least, that is what I ask of my vet, in any situation.
Wishing all of you a happy outcome. x
 
I hope that you manage to get a vet who will listen to outside opinions. One vet once said to me the day you stop learning with horses, you should stop dealing with them.
 
funny, isn't it? they're all out on emergency's and can't speak to the specialist!!! All of them??
I'm going to chat to my own vet again and see just what we can do about this.

Meanwhile...mare gets weaker because of arrogance and a closed mind. My own vet even suggested a drug to use and this guy said he'd never heard of it. Well, surely you'd go and find out, wouldn't you?

sorry for the rant folks. You've all been very supportive and we do appreciate it. it's so frustrating as we're running out of time I feel.
 
Chloe-V said:
funny, isn't it? they're all out on emergency's and can't speak to the specialist!!! All of them??
I'm going to chat to my own vet again and see just what we can do about this.

Meanwhile...mare gets weaker because of arrogance and a closed mind. My own vet even suggested a drug to use and this guy said he'd never heard of it. Well, surely you'd go and find out, wouldn't you?

sorry for the rant folks. You've all been very supportive and we do appreciate it. it's so frustrating as we're running out of time I

feel.
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it may be a far out there idea but how about a call to the royal veterinary school? you may well find some one of greater experiance and knowledge there willing to help? as in suggestions, any vets near your daughter that may have dealt with the same thing.
 
Oh no! Unbelievable. How can they all be too busy with other emergencies when you have an ongoing emergency?! Don't give up... Can you phone the place in Edinburgh yourself for advice? Somebody mentioned a neuro specialist in Edinburgh I think. You need another team by the sounds of it. And fast. Very, very best of luck. Praying for your mare xx

Edit.. I have no idea how things work in the Uk, but I remember you said your own vet is 400 miles away. Could he not email you a prescription for this new drug to allow you to get your hands on it ASAP? Meanwhile your own vet is en route. I know it is a long way, but you said you were thinking about it anyway.
 
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