Horse is very footy and don't know what to do

Sorry if you've already ruled it out but is there any chance its the first sign of lami? Just thought it may be worth mentioning given the time of year.sometimes the early signs are v similar to being footsore, especially as in the very early mild stages the horse can be fine on softer ground.
 
Hoof /pastern angle is fine, pics he wasnt standing square, prob should of mentioned before :/ I think I will try taking him off the grass during day til i can get some sort of strip graze system going :)
 
Goldenstar said:
Cptrayes how much magnesium ox do you feed at this time of year ?
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Right now I am feeding 40g a day per horse, all around 625-675 kg 17 handers. I usually feed 25g a day but the grass is coming in strongly and excess magnesium is flushed out easily, so I'm erring on the side of caution as I have one who is a definite lami risk.
 
cptrayes said:
Right now I am feeding 40g a day per horse, all around 625-675 kg 17 handers. I usually feed 25g a day but the grass is coming in strongly and excess magnesium is flushed out easily, so I'm erring on the side of caution as I have one who is a definite lami risk.
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Thanks for that . I will be starting a thread shortly about my barefoot journey which is a little off track at the moment need time to think though how to word it
Hope your around when I do.
 
My horse has been barefoot for 3 years now, and she becomes footy every year when the spring grass starts to come through. Ive been using,which works really well is Keratex hoof hardener, it also helps to prevent bruising. It is a bit pricey but in my opinion is well worth it. :)
 
astonsmummy said:
I'm going to first try bringing him in for a few hours a day til I can get fence for strip grazing sorted. Also measure up for boots and look for some second hand to try before shoes, any more suggestions welcome
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hi re boots i measured my chap and got some boas off ebay for £50 they are easy to fit and ive had them for about a yr now hardly any wear on them and i hack on some pretty rough surfaces.
 
I haven't read the other replies, but looking at the photos you can see a change of angle of the hoof wall on the nearside fore. Also some rings around the hoof. Both could indicate a previous bout of laminitis.
 
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astonsmummy said:
Problem is boots are very expensive and front shoes aren't :( I just haven't got 80 to pull out for them sadly
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Boots are long term and a one off payment and shoes are a cost every 8 weeks or so - dont understand why you think that front shoes are cheaper? i paid 100 for my boys Boa Boots and have lasted a year and still going strong.
 
My suggestion as well as diet is treat for thrush. A 20 minute soak in 2 cups apple cider vinegar in a gallon of water followed up by scrubbing daily with the solution and applying a thrush treatment. Imo raggyness and brown or sooty blackness indicates thrush which can leave horses very footie on stones.
Thrush doesn't always smell btw.

ps. They look basically good strong hooves to me.
 
TigerTail said:
What a load of twaddle from Meesha - clearly never seen the horses who compete in Endurance across many many miles of rock/varied terrain :rolleyes:
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Wearing boots or glue ons, very rarely truly unshod. :rolleyes:

If your horse is footy, I think apply shoes. The metal kind farriers nail on, stick ons or removable hoof boot types, whichever you prefer. Work on improving your horse's diet and access to grass and maybe when the lush spring grass has died down try again to exercise without hoof protection if that is your long term aim?
 
Flame_ said:
Wearing boots or glue ons, very rarely truly unshod. :rolleyes:

?
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This is not true either. Yes there are plenty who wear boots or glue-ons, but there are plenty more with nothing on their feet and the winner of a very long (100 mile I think) race a couple of years ago was completely barefoot.
 
Goldenstar said:
Thanks for that . I will be starting a thread shortly about my barefoot journey which is a little off track at the moment need time to think though how to word it
Hope your around when I do.
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There's a blog thread on Phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org you might like to use?
 
melandjazz said:
My horse has been barefoot for 3 years now, and she becomes footy every year when the spring grass starts to come through. Ive been using,which works really well is Keratex hoof hardener, it also helps to prevent bruising. It is a bit pricey but in my opinion is well worth it. :)
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Keratex hoof hardener's principle active ingredient is formaldehyde. There is some evidence from Australia, I am told, that this can erode bone inside the foot in a live horse. That sounds a bit unlikely to me, but even so, formaldehyde is a horribly strong, corrosive and drying chemical that many people would advise you against using.

If your horse is footy due to the grass, her whole system would be better off if you could stop her getting too much of it, but I realise that is not easy for everyone in livery yards.

If you do continue to use it, you would save yourself a lot of money if you bought a litre of sheep foot dip off a local farmer for the pennies that it costs him and water it down with another 3 litres of water. What you will get it almost the same as Keratex hoof hardener. The sheep foot dip is 35% formaldehyde, Keratex is 8%
 
i just had to get my boys shoes back on for this reason, walking on the stones and hard ground was clearly causing him discomfort and he was being very cautious. now hes got his shoes back on he's absolutely fine. it may be worth while getting the shoes put back on.
 
weesophz said:
i just had to get my boys shoes back on for this reason, walking on the stones and hard ground was clearly causing him discomfort and he was being very cautious. now hes got his shoes back on he's absolutely fine. it may be worth while getting the shoes put back on.
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...or solve the reason why the stones / hard ground are causing the discomfort. Shoes, boots or getting to the underlying issues with diet seem to be the available choices. I would opt for boots short term and get my horse off the grass and see if that helps in the first instances.
 
I am on my phone and cannot quote but cptrayes says most of the problems mentioned here have happened either because ... or the horse reached maturity with a lower metabolic rate and could no longer cope with spring grass. Please could you explain this? I am trying to educate myself.
 
Wagtail said:
I haven't read the other replies, but looking at the photos you can see a change of angle of the hoof wall on the nearside fore. Also some rings around the hoof. Both could indicate a previous bout of laminitis.
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The change of angle is quite far down the foot, and to my eye is more likely to correspond with when the op said she took shoes off. I do agree though that it is likely to be the grass causing the footiness. In addition to MagOx, you could try adding yea sacc to help the gut cope.
 
Cocorules said:
I am on my phone and cannot quote but cptrayes says most of the problems mentioned here have happened either because ... or the horse reached maturity with a lower metabolic rate and could no longer cope with spring grass. Please could you explain this? I am trying to educate myself.
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It's quite simple. Ignore the issue of the shoes and you will see what I mean. It is unusual for horses under 3 or 4 years of age to get laminitis at all. That's because while they are growing they are "working" hard and using up a lot of calories. When they reach maturity, they stop growing and they don't use as many calories, and that's when they start to react to grass sugars. At that point barefoot horses may well go footie.

Of course that age is also when most horses are being broken and worked and people assume that the feet simply can't cope with the work, so they shoe. The problem in many cases will actually be that the gut can't cope with the grass, but shoeing hides the problem.

It's my belief that this is one of the main reasons why we shod in the first place centuries ago, and why it has become received wisdom that horses cannot work hard without shoes on.

It can be difficult to understand why it is not the work that is causing the footiness when the timing of the two is so intertwined, but think of robins. We see lots of robins at the same time of year as we get lots of flu. But robins don't cause flu, it just looks that way until you search a bit deeper.
 
rhino said:
So you are saying that every horse has the ability to cope well with whatever workload the owner wants, barefoot?

I would say that was far more 'twaddle' than meesha saying it's a good option for many horses but not all.

Seriously, I find it arrogant and ignorant to insist that every horse, in the whole entire world, would be better barefoot. Horses are individuals, and I have little respect for anyone who doesn't realise this.
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This. I don't believe for a second that all horses can be happy and sound unshod, given their genetic backgrounds and previous treatment/management. In fact, I suspect there's a great deal of truth in meesha's comments about different tolerances between breeds.

cptrayes said:
I have three and five close friends have another 15 working and 4 turned away between them. Aquaintances who I would not call friends but whose horses I know well have another 4, making 22 in my immediate circle. I hunt regularly with up to four more, so I'm up to 26 hardworking horses which I know personally, without even trying.
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In fairness though, that is a skewed demographic - you're very much a barefoot person, so it's unsurprising that you know lots of people with barefoot horses. I personally can't think of more than a couple of "in work" barefoot horses I know in the flesh, most of the working horses I know are shod. As it happens the only barefoot fanatic I know personally has the footiest horse I've ever seen - it pains me to see it hobbling up the road.

That said, mine are all happy as anything unshod and dancing along the gravel track outside my field, though I don't treat them in any way specially. Luck, combined with good, hardy nativeness I presume.
 
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JFTD said:
This. I don't believe for a second that all horses can be happy and sound unshod, given their genetic backgrounds and previous treatment/management. In fact, I suspect there's a great deal of truth in meesha's comments about different tolerances between breeds.
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Don't bring up the genetics stuff! I got jumped on last year for suggesting the same thing, with lots of 'well I know plenty of thoroughbreds who are fine' type replies.

Interesting, as I was not thinking about thoroughbreds when I made my comment ;) :rolleyes: :D
 
rhino said:
Don't bring up the genetics stuff! I got jumped on last year for suggesting the same thing, with lots of 'well I know plenty of thoroughbreds who are fine' type replies.

Interesting, as I was not thinking about thoroughbreds when I made my comment ;) :rolleyes: :D
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Ah the "plural of anecdotes must be data because we know lots of anecdotes" crowd :D

Well they can bite me, I think it's a logical and defensible view point, so I'm sticking to it :p

eta - liking the new sig, Our Favourite Quadruped :p
 
JFTD said:
Ah the "plural of anecdotes must be data because we know lots of anecdotes" crowd :D

Well they can bite me, I think it's a logical and defensible view point, so I'm sticking to it :p

eta - liking the new sig, Our Favourite Quadruped :p
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Or alternatively there are lots of geneticists on here. With intercalated degrees in nutrition and veterinary medicine perhaps? :confused:

Thanks, needed new sig :)
 
rhino said:
Or alternatively there are lots of geneticists on here. With intercalated degrees in nutrition and veterinary medicine perhaps? :confused:
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Ah that must be the case. They've got me beat then - I could make an argument for myself as a veterinary geneticist (of sorts) but I have no nutrition background :mad: :D

I will miss seeing Tam beneath your posts though :o
 
JFTD said:
Ah that must be the case. They've got me beat then - I could make an argument for myself as a veterinary geneticist (of sorts) but I have no nutrition background :mad: :D

I will miss seeing Tam beneath your posts though :o
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I know. My biochem and medical diagnostics degrees are woefully inadequate ;) :D

Tam will make a comeback in my sig I'm sure :)
 
astonsmummy said:
My boy is 4 rising 5 and in light work (hacking 3-4 times per week and schooling once a week) lives out and has no shoes on. He was trimmed on Saturday and the lady who trimmed him pointed out he has a bit of a bruised toe and just to keep an eye on him. Hence.... I'm worrying like a looney :o

He's definitely not lame, just cautious over stony ground on his fronts. Perfectly happy on grass/tarmac/smooth ground.

Soooo my question is, what should I do? Persevere or shoe on front? He's had no front shoes since November and no hind shoes since October and has been fine since mid February when he came back into work after a break.
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I can't see anything terrible with his hooves in those pics, except hooves that are ready for work.

However he is sore - which will prevent work.

You will see many threads around at the moment regarding footy BF and shod horses and cases of sudden laminitis.

Welcome to spring.

A mixture of rich grass and hormone levels is causing havoc with the horses internally. This damage goes straight to the laminae attachments and causes weakness and inflammation...and pain.

I know I bang on about this - but often..mineral balancing (or at least adding magnesium to the diet) will provide the horses with some leeway to cope.

And work - plenty of exercise is essential.

But he needs to be comfortable enough.

So you have the choice of shoes or boots for the season.

Boots are actually cost effective, as they will last for months (at least) and they will do no harm. They provide all round protection while still allowing the hoof to function as it's meant to.

If shoes are the best option for you both then fine.
But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't just leave it there and believe the shoes have fixed the inflammation. The shoes will pinch the corium so that the horse cannot feel the pain as easily.
But the pain is a symptom - a warning. You need to treat the cause too. Otherwise you'll find the horse may crash with acute laminitis:(
 
rhino said:
I know. My biochem and medical diagnostics degrees are woefully inadequate ;) :D

Tam will make a comeback in my sig I'm sure :)
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Yes, what were you thinking when you wasted your time with them? :confused: You should've done a degree in NL studies at the University of HHO obvs :cool:

I look forward to Tam re-appearing when you're bored of being our favourite quadruped :p
 
Nocturnal said:
The change of angle is quite far down the foot, and to my eye is more likely to correspond with when the op said she took shoes off. I do agree though that it is likely to be the grass causing the footiness. In addition to MagOx, you could try adding yea sacc to help the gut cope.
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Then why is it not present on all of the hooves? Usually such a change that is caused by horse management factors, is mirrored in all four hooves. It would concern me as it could be indicatiive of some pedal bone rotation in that hoof.
 
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