Horse is very footy and don't know what to do

astonsmummy said:
I may possibly be able to strip graze a bit, he's on very lush grazing at the moment but I haven't got anywhere else to put him! I may have to try and invest in some, are there any good second hand sources?
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I think you may have answered your question - lush grazing.:eek: Get some electric fencing or a grazing muzzle quick! before considering boots or shoeing. If a horse is footy its best to think laminitis first, treat as such and then work out if it is something else.
 
guido16 said:
cptrayes,

Understand that "medical" reasons are reasons that of course you would remove them from grass, but do you think it is appropriate to remove a horse from grass for the sole reason of allowing it to go barefoot?

Just curious.
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It would never be solely for the purpose of allowing it to go barefoot, in my book. A horse which is not sound without shoes on when on a grass diet but sound without shoes on without grass is a horse whose system is not tolerating that diet. You might be able to get it sound with shoes on, but you won't cure the problems with the rest of its system.

It is very surprising, for example, how many horses with severe sweet itch can be totally cured or very much reduced by withdrawing them from grass. Yes I know it's a midge saliva allergy, but there are sufferers who simply do not have that allergy when not eating grass and who do have it when they do.
 
abitodd said:
More interesting stuff on this here.http://www.equinefootprotection.co.uk/let-nature-guide-us-article.html

Seeing as we have gone off topic!;)
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Actually this is back on topic imo and brings us back to the management aspects of hoof health from birth. :) Movement from an early age is vital to hoof development and of course a variety of terrain is good too. Tb's tend, as said in the link, to be stabled and they are also often turned out on bowling greens in case they injure themselves. This doesn't seem to provide enough stimulation for the hoof structures to develop in line with the growing body. Then many are shod at two which further reduces the ability of the hoof to expand and contract and flex so slowing further any development.

Pile on top of this the feeding regime of many tb's and it is no surprize to me they have a tendency to hoof problems.
 
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cptrayes said:
It would never be solely for the purpose of allowing it to go barefoot, in my book. A horse which is not sound without shoes on when on a grass diet but sound without shoes on without grass is a horse whose system is not tolerating that diet. You might be able to get it sound with shoes on, but you won't cure the problems with the rest of its system.

It is very surprising, for example, how many horses with severe sweet itch can be totally cured or very much reduced by withdrawing them from grass. Yes I know it's a midge saliva allergy, but there are sufferers who simply do not have that allergy when not eating grass and who do have it when they do.
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This really interests me about the sweet itch. Can you post me a link to the studies on this please?
 
Reading through this thread. Demonstrates once again the the Taliban's extremist views.
There's not much point in trying to have a sensible discussion with closed minded fundamentalists. They will dissect every post in the vain attempt to get the last word and split hairs ad infinitum.
The sad thing is if everyone listened to Mullah Omar there would be more horses in pain, shut in a stuffy stables all day, on some strange diet overdosing on base metals, yeast, linseed etc and the latest fad diet based on nothing but theory. With all that magnesium it's no wonder they stay inside in the day time, they're likely to spontaneously combust if exposed to the sun.
If you have a horse or two that can cope with no shoes, good for you. Please don't make the mistake of thinking you're always talking to green ill informed idiots with one horse. Your opinions are nothing but opinions and extremely patronising and based on flimsy data. I wish I had a quid for every time I saw a link to the Grand Mosque Rockley Farm (sp), I could have retired by now. As soon as someone tries to be reasonable and find common ground we get that 'old chestnut' well I'll agree to disagree again. I've had that one myself.

The outcome is, you do more to put people off your cause, this is from someone with four out of six unshod two with fronts because they need them.


Sorry for the little rantlette. Just letting off steam, but the holier than thou attitude is getting on my nerves......and ...............relax :o:o
 
Moomin1 said:
This really interests me about the sweet itch. Can you post me a link to the studies on this please?
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The thread I got my information from was one I posted when my own horse, which had scars from sweet itch rubbing and had to be rugged day and night, stabled or not, is this one. I was shocked when it happened to mine and have since heard of several more. Even one is a surprise, given that the allergy is to midge saliva, not grass itself.


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=389045
 
xxMozlarxx said:
It's actually a false claim that there was a comment made that SHOD horses aren't healthy...in fact no such comment was made, I was part of the debate in question, some peeps just don't read what's written properly and make up their own interpretation! :confused:
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Sorry - not sure how to quote from a different thread - so have copied and pasted the comment made on the other thread you are talking about:

"However, I do not know many shod horses at all which have lived to a ripe old age and retired (or not!) sound without foot problems, or undetected digestive problems which would have caused footiness had they been unshod. Barefoot, if done right, should never cause untold damage to any horse. Or any damage at all."

IMO this implies strongly that many shod horses are infact living an unhealthy life without the knowledge of the owner?!
 
lazybee said:
There's not much point in trying to have a sensible discussion with closed minded fundamentalists. They will dissect every post in the vain attempt to get the last word and split hairs ad infinitum.
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I completely agree with you there!
 
Moomin1 said:
Sorry - not sure how to quote from a different thread - so have copied and pasted the comment made on the other thread you are talking about:

"However, I do not know many shod horses at all which have lived to a ripe old age and retired (or not!) sound without foot problems, or undetected digestive problems which would have caused footiness had they been unshod. Barefoot, if done right, should never cause untold damage to any horse. Or any damage at all."

IMO this implies strongly that many shod horses are infact living an unhealthy life without the knowledge of the owner?!
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Moomin1 you claimed earlier in this thread that I said that. Will you please acknowledge that you did not get that quote from any of my posts, because I certainly never wrote it?
 
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cptrayes said:
The thread I got my information from was one I posted when my own horse, which had scars from sweet itch rubbing and had to be rugged day and night, stabled or not, is this one. I was shocked when it happened to mine and have since heard of several more. Even one is a surprise, given that the allergy is to midge saliva, not grass itself.


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=389045
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I think there are some good pointers on that thread about sugars in the blood and histamine reactions etc, but still, there are only about three or four people who have said that SOME improvement has occurred on low sugar/no grass diets so it's probably a bit of an exaggeration to say that it's surprising how many horses have been 'cured' or improved significantly as a result of their diet.

I am surprised no proper scientific research has been undertaken on this. Would be very interesting.
 
Moomin1 said:
Sorry - not sure how to quote from a different thread - so have copied and pasted the comment made on the other thread you are talking about:

"However, I do not know many shod horses at all which have lived to a ripe old age and retired (or not!) sound without foot problems, or undetected digestive problems which would have caused footiness had they been unshod. Barefoot, if done right, should never cause untold damage to any horse. Or any damage at all."

IMO this implies strongly that many shod horses are infact living an unhealthy life without the knowledge of the owner?!
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If that is the comment then I apologise, I must have missed it. I don't agree with that personally and I'm not sure how it could be proven if the digestive problems were undetected!!!!
I have horses shod and unshod, and happy with both, unshod are trimmed by the farrier, have used hoof hardener :eek: etc etc..
 
cptrayes said:
Moomin1 you claimed earlier in this thread that I said that. Will you please acknowledge that you did not get that quote from any of my posts, because I certainly never wrote it?
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Yes sorry cptrayes I apologise. You did however continue on that thread to insist my old pony was unhealthy in some form because he had a bruised sole twice in his 40yr life!! ;):p
 
Moomin1 said:
I am surprised no proper scientific research has been undertaken on this. Would be very interesting.
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I'm not. Follow the money. Research is usually paid for by companies looking to sell a product at the end of it. No-grass cures need no drugs, therefore no profit, therefore no research. I wish I was a Euro-lottery multi-millionaire, I'd have a dozen research projects running.
 
lazybee said:
Reading through this thread. Demonstrates once again the the Taliban's extremist views.
There's not much point in trying to have a sensible discussion with closed minded fundamentalists. They will dissect every post in the vain attempt to get the last word and split hairs ad infinitum.
The sad thing is if everyone listened to Mullah Omar there would be more horses in pain, shut in a stuffy stables all day, on some strange diet overdosing on base metals, yeast, linseed etc and the latest fad diet based on nothing but theory. With all that magnesium it's no wonder they stay inside in the day time, they're likely to spontaneously combust if exposed to the sun.
If you have a horse or two that can cope with no shoes, good for you. Please don't make the mistake of thinking you're always talking to green ill informed idiots with one horse. Your opinions are nothing but opinions and extremely patronising and based on flimsy data. I wish I had a quid for every time I saw a link to the Grand Mosque Rockley Farm (sp), I could have retired by now. As soon as someone tries to be reasonable and find common ground we get that 'old chestnut' well I'll agree to disagree again. I've had that one myself.

The outcome is, you do more to put people off your cause, this is from someone with four out of six unshod two with fronts because they need them.


Sorry for the little rantlette. Just letting off steam, but the holier than thou attitude is getting on my nerves......and ...............relax :o:o
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Oh dear. Who has said anything about shutting horses in stuffy stables all day? :rolleyes: I resent that implication. I don't even have a stable. :D

Barefoot thinking promotes movement not shutting in stables...
 
Moomin1 said:
Yes sorry cptrayes I apologise. You did however continue on that thread to insist my old pony was unhealthy in some form because he had a bruised sole twice in his 40yr life!! ;):p
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Let's tell the whole story Moom. You told us that he got bruised soles twice in his life by bolting, in shoes, on a flat tarmac road. There are a lot of people, including me, who would suspect that the bruising was far more likely to have been a laminar bleed than a bruise, when the pony was in shoes on flat tarmac.

Before I worked out that he was copper deficient, one of mine also lamed himself bolting on a road. He was sound on all surfaces and you would have sworn he was a picture of health but "naturally" had flat soles. Fed copper, it became clear that the soles were flat because the laminae were stretched and the pedal bone was low in his foot. His feet concaved up and now he could easily canter on a road and not go lame. In fact we sometimes do, but don't tell the H&S brigade :D
 
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Moomin1 said:
Sorry - not sure how to quote from a different thread - so have copied and pasted the comment made on the other thread you are talking about:

"However, I do not know many shod horses at all which have lived to a ripe old age and retired (or not!) sound without foot problems, or undetected digestive problems which would have caused footiness had they been unshod. Barefoot, if done right, should never cause untold damage to any horse. Or any damage at all."

IMO this implies strongly that many shod horses are infact living an unhealthy life without the knowledge of the owner?!
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I wrote that, Moomin1, not cptrayes. It is my experience. However I will acknowledge that most of the horses I know are younger competition horses. I think it is quite likely that many shod horses are living unhealthy lives without the owner's knowledge, though.

P.S. they were undetected until they finally finshed the horses off ;)
 
amymay said:
I do :D

Just find some of your wild claims a bit :eek:
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My wild claims are part of my charm :cool:.

All I'm saying is that horses are tricky buggers, and it's not always easy to tell the difference between behavioural and physical issues. Taking shoes off makes it easier, so that's what I do. Learing to 'read' hooves is entirely another matter, and often more difficult than getting the transition itself right ;).
 
Nocturnal said:
All I'm saying is that horses are tricky buggers, and it's not always easy to tell the difference between behavioural and physical issues. Taking shoes off makes it easier, so that's what I do. Learning to 'read' hooves is entirely another matter, and often more difficult than getting the transition itself right ;).
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Now that all makes perfect sense :D
 
amymay said:
Now that all makes perfect sense :D
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smiley-vault-signs-093.gif
 
Aww.... Dontcha just love it when there's a happy ending!!! Group hug anyone?

P.s. JFTD, I meant for you to do a survey. I forgot "do one" could have other meanings... :D
 
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