Horse is very footy and don't know what to do

StarlightMagic

StarlightMagic

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My boy is 4 rising 5 and in light work (hacking 3-4 times per week and schooling once a week) lives out and has no shoes on. He was trimmed on Saturday and the lady who trimmed him pointed out he has a bit of a bruised toe and just to keep an eye on him. Hence.... I'm worrying like a looney :o

He's definitely not lame, just cautious over stony ground on his fronts. Perfectly happy on grass/tarmac/smooth ground.

Soooo my question is, what should I do? Persevere or shoe on front? He's had no front shoes since November and no hind shoes since October and has been fine since mid February when he came back into work after a break.

Pics of feet are as follows :)

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Offside fore (bruised toe)

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Offside fore

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Offside fore

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Nearside fore

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Nearside fore

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Nearside fore

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Nearside Hind

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Nearside Hind

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Nearside Hind

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Offside Hind

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Offside Hind

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Offside Hind


Sorry about the muddy feet, where the water trough is still has mud :confused: and I didn't think to groom before I took pics :rolleyes:
 
I can't offer much advice, but just wanted to say I share your dilemma! Mine has been fine with naked feet from last autumn until Saturday, and now he has become footy. Nothing has changed, his diet is as good as it can get, yet he is still sore. I am having front shoes back on this week, as he is in too much work to carry on as he is.
 
I'm thinking spring grass might be contributing, I really don't want to put shoes back on as he's got fab little feet but if he's uncomfortable I will do :(
 
Very likely its spring grass - can you take him off it for a few hours during the day? It's highest sugar when the suns strongest!
Are you feeding minerals?
 
He's on fast fibre, topspec vits (which since buying I've heard are bad in unshod horses?), diamond omega and tiny bit of garlic to mask taste of vits, could possibly bring in during day for a bit if it helps?
 
What about trying boots on front - that's what I did to start off but put shoes on last week cos my mare is very flat footed in front - never has shoes on back but always feels gritting roads etc
 
How was he prior to the trim?

Something is causing sensitivity, shoes are a very effective sticking plaster, but categorically won't be fixing whatever is causing the sensitivity. I would be very strongly inclined to work out what is causing the footyness and fix it.

What kind of grazing is he on? I would consider his diet to be the cause of any sensitivity assuming he was unchanged before and after his trim. First step would be to ensure he isn't getting a load of frosted/sunny grass (the weather atm is the absolute worst!!), and to make sure he is getting all the vits and mins he needs in a low sugar/starch base - just the same as a healthy feed for a shod horse would be, but without shoes you get fine tuned feedback so you really have to make sure the diet is good if you have a slightly sensitive sort.

I would be inclined to tweak your diet a bit: stick with fast fibre, add a good mineral supplement (Equimins Meta Balance or Pro Hoof - a google will bring these up), salt, and also some microionised linseed (great for omegas). You can add some mint, aniseed, tumeric, fenugreek, etc to make it tasty for the fussy sorts!!

Unless you are lucky enough to be able to strip graze, chuck down a load of pea gravel etc then you might be stuck with your grass, in which case sensitivity in spring and autumn might be tricky to shift if your horse is sensitive to the grass flushes. During these periods then I would boot. Your horse still gets all the benefits of being barefoot, just with a bit of extra help he needs during sore periods.
 
I may possibly be able to strip graze a bit, he's on very lush grazing at the moment but I haven't got anywhere else to put him! I may have to try and invest in some, are there any good second hand sources?
 
astonsmummy said:
I may possibly be able to strip graze a bit, he's on very lush grazing at the moment but I haven't got anywhere else to put him! I may have to try and invest in some, are there any good second hand sources?
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If your horse is on lush grazing then I bet my bottom dollar that is what is causing this sensitivity. If you can't remove him from it then you'll just have to make him comfortable - boots really are ace. I would still tweak his diet as it should help him deal with crap grass more easily.

You can keep an eye on here, and also post a wanted ad http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/forum4.php
Ebay is good too.

If you check out thesaddleryshop website for info on how to measure for boots and the sizing charts then you can decide which boots would suit. Best boots are the ones that suit the shape of your horses feet the closest. Often just booting infront is enough.
 
honestly ? shoe

I had my chap barefoot from being backed up until 5 years old - he started off great but coudlnt cope with work asked. he got slower in walk and fell behind on fun rides. I shod and had my haopy forward going horse back.

Barefoot is great - great for retired horses or horses that never go over stony ground and dont have to carry alot of tack and person around on their backs but in reality few horses cope long term barefoot - the ones who do seem to be the ponies with really concave feet.

Your chaps feet look like the feet of the native american ponies (who dont carry people and are living out covering huge amounts of distance each day and have evolved to cope with the conditions)

if you are asking work from him that he is sore doing then shoe

Not trying to be negative just realistic
 
meesha said:
honestly ? shoe

I had my chap barefoot from being backed up until 5 years old - he started off great but coudlnt cope with work asked. he got slower in walk and fell behind on fun rides. I shod and had my haopy forward going horse back.

Barefoot is great - great for retired horses or horses that never go over stony ground and dont have to carry alot of tack and person around on their backs but in reality few horses cope long term barefoot - the ones who do seem to be the ponies with really concave feet.

Your chaps feet look like the feet of the native american ponies (who dont carry people and are living out covering huge amounts of distance each day and have evolved to cope with the conditions)

if you are asking work from him that he is sore doing then shoe

Not trying to be negative just realistic
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errrr, fiddlesticks (in the most polite way!!).
Any horse can go barefoot, but some are harder to keep comfortable and so the owner has to make changes to the management. This isn't possible for some owners especially those that might be constrained by livery conditions. The horse is able to go barefoot, but we might not be able to offer circumstances to let them be.

Neither of ours are ponies, one had awful flat weak feet - she has had to have a complete diet overhaul and careful work to help her to grow strong new feet. Both are in alot of work, competing BD and BS, hacking over anything at any speed for miles on end, one also does endurance. They are both 100% comfy and storming over any surface. It can most certanly be done, but you can't necessarily just pull the shoes, wang the horse in a field and expect it to be comfortable.
 
I'm going to first try bringing him in for a few hours a day til I can get fence for strip grazing sorted. Also measure up for boots and look for some second hand to try before shoes, any more suggestions welcome
 
totally agree it can be done - I tried it and really did go all in - good trimming - 24 hour turnout with access to harstanding at all times and matted field shelter - no hard feed only hay - vits/mins etc - built up work gradually and my gelding had never been shod and had brilliant feet.

To the eye both mine had "perfect" feet - my retired mare is still barefoot and 100% over even very stony ground when unridden but was always a bit too cautious and looking for the verge constantly when being ridden. My chap managed a couple of 10 mile fun rides but as I did more with him he became footy.

speaking from own experiences - people forget that the hoof of different breeds is very different - more concave harder feet for stony ground (had section A with these - beautiful feet) and less concave feet which need less expansion for the frog etc to reach ground - these are the more typical for our horses !

Would have loved to have kept my ridden chap barefoot and I didnt take the decision lightly to shoe !
 
It's hard. My horse is on the 'perfect' barefoot diet, is in at night so is off the grass a lot of the time, is in work, but is getting footier by the day. His grazing is poor because he is chubby, and he has supplements for feet and for his arthritic hocks. He can't keep hoofboots on either *sigh* so my only option if I want to ride is to shoe. I would love it if he was happy barefoot but for my chap it just doesn't work.

The point of my ramble - do what you can to make your horse comfortable so he can do the job you need him to do :)
 
What a load of twaddle from Meesha - clearly never seen the horses who compete in Endurance across many many miles of rock/varied terrain :rolleyes:

Def try boots OP and maybe soaked hay instead of grass if poss?

Second hand boots often on preloved/ebay/phoenix :)
 
I would swap to night time grazing and get him off the growing grass during the day! The grass in the day is full of sugar compared to night whilst it's growing, so that will reduce sugar intake a lot. I also feed Magnesium, which promotes the breakdown of sugar and helps reduce footiness.

And yes my boy is barefoot :D
 
One more thing to throw into the mix.
Recent research has shown that a horses hormone levels go haywire during coat change(spring and autumn) Adrenaline levels increase(hence the spooky behavior) and insulin levels increase(hence the spring and autumn peaks in laminitis especially as in co-incides with grass growth/stressed grass!)
So,if I were you are would seriously consider investing in some boots for when hormones and conditions make your horse more sensitive. The feet look great. It would be a shame to shoe them for a temporary blip!:)
 
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only saying that there seems to be alot of people thinking all horses can go barefoot - sorry for the "twaddle" dont know what came over me as I dont normally comment - but its not like I am commenting when havent tried it ! I have - it didnt work for either of my two ! Yes there are horses in all disciplines barefoot but they are the minority !

ps. if going for hoof boots I used old mac boots and they were great - only time had a problem with them was on very very muddy ground when they were slippy ! they also last for ages - mine were used regularly and barely look used - just make sure get right size of whichever go for (sometimes easier said than done)

Good luck
 
meesha said:
only saying that there seems to be alot of people thinking all horses can go barefoot - sorry for the "twaddle" dont know what came over me as I dont normally comment - but its not like I am commenting when havent tried it ! I have - it didnt work for either of my two ! Yes there are horses in all disciplines barefoot but they are the minority !

ps. if going for hoof boots I used old mac boots and they were great - only time had a problem with them was on very very muddy ground when they were slippy ! they also last for ages - mine were used regularly and barely look used - just make sure get right size of whichever go for (sometimes easier said than done)

Good luck
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Seriously that is rubbish! You get your horses diet right then it will go barefoot fine. But you have to put more effort in to some horses then others. A friend has 2 TBs who had rubbish TB feet that have gone barefoot brilliantly, one can now do a days hunting and he has only had his shoes off since the week before christmas and does brill. She put the time and effort in, both have mineral balanced diets and are doing amazingly well.
 
Chellebean said:
Seriously that is rubbish! You get your horses diet right then it will go barefoot fine.
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So you are saying that every horse has the ability to cope well with whatever workload the owner wants, barefoot?

I would say that was far more 'twaddle' than meesha saying it's a good option for many horses but not all.

Seriously, I find it arrogant and ignorant to insist that every horse, in the whole entire world, would be better barefoot. Horses are individuals, and I have little respect for anyone who doesn't realise this.

OP = if you can get hold of a 2nd hand pair of boots it would be worth trying for a few weeks, like it has been said it's a particularly difficult time of year for many horses. Hard ground, grass growth and coat shed. You could always reassess further down the line if shoes would be the better option for you, but if you can persevere for a few weeks then you may find it is just a temporary issue. Good luck with whatever you decide :)
 
rhino said:
So you are saying that every horse has the ability to cope well with whatever workload the owner wants, barefoot?

I would say that was far more 'twaddle' than meesha saying it's a good option for many horses but not all.

Seriously, I find it arrogant and ignorant to insist that every horse, in the whole entire world, would be better barefoot. Horses are individuals, and I have little respect for anyone who doesn't realise this.

OP = if you can get hold of a 2nd hand pair of boots it would be worth trying for a few weeks, like it has been said it's a particularly difficult time of year for many horses. Hard ground, grass growth and coat shed. You could always reassess further down the line if shoes would be the better option for you, but if you can persevere for a few weeks then you may find it is just a temporary issue. Good luck with whatever you decide :)
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Thank you Rhino - I have been sitting here quietly steaming at this thread and working out how best to put it. Good luck OP with whatever you decide is the best way. (BTW I have one that wears shoes and two that don't. )
 
I think it's likely to be your good grass . Boots will outlast shoes in the long run . If the horse is only in light work it's a shame to shoe him is its a temporary blip.
 
last post as must get on with my work, but - thats great your friends horse can do a days hunting - hopefully it can hunt twice a week and not go sore or footy ! but..... if its sore and you feel you have tried all options then shoes or boots seem like a good move.

If "all" horses could go barefoot and cope with the weight of rider, the surfaces we ask them to go over and the amount of work we ask from them that would be brilliant !

oh for a perfect world !
 
meesha said:
in reality few horses cope long term barefoot
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This is simply incorrect.

I know of hundreds and could easily find you thousands if I tried. I have three and five close friends have another 15 working and 4 turned away between them. Aquaintances who I would not call friends but whose horses I know well have another 4, making 22 in my immediate circle. I hunt regularly with up to four more, so I'm up to 26 hardworking horses which I know personally, without even trying.

Most of the problems mentioned by people on this thread have happened either because the grass started growing or because the horse reached maturity with a lower metabolic rate and could no longer cope with spring grass.

For people who actually want to make it work:

turn out at night when the grass has much lower sugar

feed magnesium because fast growing grass is low in magnesium and it affects insulin regulation and the ability to digest grass sugars

feed yeast which has a double anti-inflammatory effect on the gut and helps stop toxins leaking out into the bloodstream which then attack the feet

if high in iron and/or manganese, as a lot of British grazing is, feed copper (possibly with zinc) because copper uptake will be suppressed by the iron/managanes and copper is also required for insulin regulation. If in doubt, get a forage analysis. If that's not practical feed a low iron, low manganese, high copper supplement - these are few and far between and not available from any big name but Equimins and then only by special request.

consider using charcoal, it can help some horses a lot.

consider testing for Cushings and Insulin Resistance, there are an awful lot of undiagnosed cases that only show slight footiness as a symptom but are storing up problems for the future if not caught early.



If you don't want to do this and your horse is too footie for boots to make sense (footie in the field for example), shoe.
 
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The feet look good to me but there seemed to be a different hoof/pastern angle in the two front feet, maybe that could be causing the 'footy' problem?
 
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