horse just bolted 5 miles down the road

[digitalangel]

im sitting here shaking and crying just had a horrible experience.

Picked up a new horse yesterday - 7yo but green, direct from the breeder. He had been ridden on their yard but not hacked much and basically found out he has big gaps in his education - not had rug on, not been tied up. Turned him out next to another horse yesterday and he seemed fine. Today i turned him out with a buddy and when i went to switch fields with another horse and moved him next to another horse he went crazy. went through the post+electric, then over/through 2 lots of post and rail and then onto the road. i was chasing him to no avail but someone stopped in the car and we followed him in the car. he was heading towards the main road so i called the police to alert them. we tried getting in front of him, and stopped the car across the road a few times, but he ran me down. just before the main road i made a divebomb bu missed and he kicked my in the knee. somehow and i really dont know how he went straight across the main road without getting collected by a truck. about a mile from thew a41 he finally slowed to a trot , we managed to get past him and another divebomb meant i got him. some lovely horsey people stopped and i put him in a stable there ans got my lorry and went to collect him. hes soaked, sweating but stopped blowing and ive shut him in a stable for now.

The breeder is adamant that they wont take him back because of diseases he might have from being on my yard. All my horses compete so theyre all UTD on all jabs. theyre all in excellent condition.

I knew i was taking on a green horse, but i was not expecting a horse that is 7 and backed to be this unhandleable. ive never had to deal with this situation before, and i have had green horses before. If my fencing cant hold him, nothing will . Im left with a big fencing bill, a horse that is dangerous ( he also kicked my dog yesterday ) the breeder is simply not interested, the horse is a danger to himself and others and i couldnt pass him on to someone so im facing having him PTS. IM in tears, my leg is killing me, the breeders attitude is simply making me angry, im sorry for the horse because hes sweet as really, its not his fault hes just scared.

can i have a cup of tea please? and some peas for my knee.

 

[suestowford]

How frightening for you, and an injury to add to it. I will offer you not only ice for your knee but some virtual cake as well.

Not sure what to suggest really, but I bet someone will be along with some sensible advice.

 

[digitalangel]

just messages the breeder ( phone smashed so cant call them ) theyve reiterated they wont have him back.

 

[Mrs C]

I don't really know what to say but don't want to read and run. Can't offer any advice but I hope you're ok and that must have been a v scary experience xx

 

[digitalangel]

im still shaking and crying and in immense pain from my knee but have had to go back to work this all happened on my lunch hour

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Sorry you've had such a shock. You must be pretty shaken up.

Ok, don't panic yet. Poor horse is very frightened, now you know what a vunerable chap he is at the moment, you can gear your management to help him settle.
Don't pass judgement on him yet.

 

[Orangehorse]

Have you any sort of advert, or any witness to the sale and what they said when you saw him? Ring the BHS helpline and ask for advice, also any of the horse solicitors that advertise in H & H. There is also Trading Standards.

In your place I would be taking him back!

 

[digitalangel]

Between him kicking the dog, me and getting through all my fencing, i cant turn him out and hes dangerous in th state he is in at the moment. i dont have the time to deal with an unhandled horse. i thought the basics had been done, didnt find out till after i handed money over the extent of the gaps. going through the breeders facebook i find references to bolting horses so think hes done this before.

 

[Flame_]

You could take him back to the breeders, unload him and take him back up to their horses, then the diseases excuse is void but you'd still have a fight to get your money back.

If you don't want that fight and want to avoid pts, if you can afford to, could you send him for some intensive training/ handling acceptance with a professional?

 

[Abacus]

You poor love. That's horrible, and well done for being so immensely brave and keeping on chasing. There are positives in this - you got him back and no one was hurt (except you) - I mean, of course, badly.

Do you really have to sit at work? Sounds like you need to go and curl up with some sweet tea and cry it out.

Otherwise, I agree with horserider - poor chap panicked, sure, and as he didn't know where he was, he kept running. This is a panic reaction and not necessarily one that indicates terrible, unsolvable manners. If he has been in the same place 7 years (and never anywhere else) it was to be expected that he would be hard to settle at first.

How to handle it now? - well that, I don't know. Shutting him up is a start - I'd be tempted to keep him there and spend time with him, before putting him out in the safest field you have. preferably with a little companion, both while he is in and then out. Could you do this?

Also, what was his previous routine and can you mimic it as much as possible to help him understand what is expected of him?

 

[digitalangel]

Have you any sort of advert, or any witness to the sale and what they said when you saw him? Ring the BHS helpline and ask for advice, also any of the horse solicitors that advertise in H & H. There is also Trading Standards.

In your place I would be taking him back!

yes ive had witnesses - as they are a breeder i dont know where i stand in terms of the law. hes a low value horse ( i paid 1050 for him ) and i would like that money back but its not the point, i want him to go back to them so they can work with him, hes not a horse that should have been offered for sale, imho. i have informed the breeder i will have to PTS if they wont take him back, they dont seem to give ***** about his welfare. they shouldnt have sold him in this state.

 

[Baileybones]

I would agree don't make any rash decisions just yet. Horrendous experience for both of you and you have every right to be feeling as you do. Sounds as if this chap has lived life in a bit of a bubble for the last 7yrs and has had minimal exposure to everyday life. Breeders attitude bothers me and makes me think they were pleased to see him leave and also hugely irresponsible for not better educating this horse.
Get your knee looked at by a Dr and make arrangements needed to collect horse and then take him "home" and stable him quietly whilst you collect your thoughts and decide rationally what to do.

Not suggesting you do one thing or another but no good will come of making a panic decision whilst your system is still coursing with adrenalin.

Good luck and hope things sort out for you both x

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That is such a frightening thing to happen, I'm so glad that you caught him in the end and I hope your knee is feeling better soon.

Was this the first time he was fenced with electric fencing?
Do you think that it was going through that fence (and being zapped), that then set him off in a blind panic?
If he was upset by you moving the horses into different paddocks, could you bring him in, shift the horses and then turn him out again?
Could he have a paddock with no electric fence?

ETA - having read the new posts, I think that ringing the BHS helpline would be good.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Have you any sort of advert, or any witness to the sale and what they said when you saw him? Ring the BHS helpline and ask for advice, also any of the horse solicitors that advertise in H & H. There is also Trading Standards.

In your place I would be taking him back!

This is your best bet. Was the horse advertised? Get copies of the advert if you can and any witnesses willing to speak up.

Huge hugs, what a terrible terrible experience you've had. xxx

 

[digitalangel]

Yes this is all excellent advice which i was trying to do and yes it was just fear and panic which is why he kept running poor thing. i dont think he has unsolveable manners but i do think given what ive since read that hes done this before. and yes i expected first some since being at home to be freaked but he has other horses next to him and a buddy for company. its only when i switched the fields that he went mad. i had trouble catching him in last night too, he had to follow the other guy in. i cant turn him out he did this while turned out with others. he was out 24x7 before i believe but ' brought in' in winter i dont know how long for.

i cant risk him going out, something spooking him and him ending up dead or killing someone else. its not fair on him.

 

[Templebar]

Thats aweful, i had one once as i was going onto horses off ponies, a 5 year old who was lovely well schooled nice hack tried her about 5 times at the yard. Got her home rode her in my little paddock which is where she lives on the second day of being there, got on, reached to check girth she went up over backwards. My mother who is better at lunging than me then lunged her and she settled got back on went to ride forward and she went up again, thankfully my mother had hold of her so no backwards.

We had a good friend come ride her who does a lot with youngsters she said send her back she was like a coiled spring, thankfully owner took her back, we had them sign a disclaimer which helped. Turns out they bred her, backed her never had anyone else work her. Suddenly she is in a new place with new people and she flipped.

That isn't much help to you but all i can say is yes you may be right in thinking PTS. But i would let him settle a bit spend some time with him, treat him like a fresh 3 year old that has never had a hand on him. You say he is broke but if there are this big a gap in his handling then i would hate to think what might happen should someone get on him and ask him to hack. Also i would ask around, who are the breeders? Are they reputable(though it sounds not), if you can find anyone else with a horse off them then ask what theirs were like and what they did. Also i would not be adverse to stating who the breeder is, if they are dealing horses then the next one they sell could kill someone and it sounds like they wouldn't care two hoots.

Edited to say; just read other posts i too second getting legal advice, as a breeder should stand you in good stead as they have to uphold standards and that would include not knowingly selling a dangerous horse. Get hold of these other people that have put about bolting horses, get his picture out and ask anyone if they have had him. If the breeder has sold him on knowing he has done this before they are definitely liable.

 

[digitalangel]

Hi faracat, he was fenced with post and electric before so i thought he would be OK with it. clearly not. Yep have the sale ad, it didnt say much tbh. Im going to call the BHS helpline now. Yes he can have a post and fail field but he went through 2 post and rail fences and a gate so i dont know if my fencing will hold him.

That is such a frightening thing to happen, I'm so glad that you caught him in the end and I hope your knee is feeling better soon.

Was this the first time he was fenced with electric fencing?
Do you think that it was going through that fence (and being zapped), that then set him off in a blind panic?
If he was upset by you moving the horses into different paddocks, could you bring him in, shift the horses and then turn him out again?
Could he have a paddock with no electric fence?

ETA - having read the new posts, I think that ringing the BHS helpline would be good.

 

[digitalangel]

oh, i cant leave work theyre not very understanding. but i do feel like i need to, but i cant.

 

[webble]

No advice but just wanted to offer virul hugs and moal support. Hope you can sort something with the breeder. Was he vetted at all could the vet get involved?

 

[digitalangel]

You could take him back to the breeders, unload him and take him back up to their horses, then the diseases excuse is void but you'd still have a fight to get your money back.

If you don't want that fight and want to avoid pts, if you can afford to, could you send him for some intensive training/ handling acceptance with a professional?

I cant afford that sadly, ive had a really bad run this year with horses - my 6 year old has been dxed with PSD and thats sucking pretty much all my cashflow.

 

[digitalangel]

nope not vetted and dont see how vetting would have anything to do with it. not worth a vetting on such a low value horse.

 

[digitalangel]

heh just realised i cant call BHS no phone its smashed!!!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Sounds terrifying. I'd be on the gin rather than tea by now!

Try not to think too far ahead, this may be typical behaviour or a one off, there is time to make decisions although I can see that you might want to get rid asap if the horse is a danger to you and others.

I would write down as much detail as to what has happened, what time and any witnesses as soon as possible. Take pictures of horse and fencing etc. Write down when you made phone calls to the seller and what you and they said before, during and after purchase about the horse and any behaviour, keep a copy of any advert they may have had. Even if you don't take any of this forward at least you will be in a position to do so if you want/need to. I would also write a formal email or letter to the seller immediately describing the incident and your concerns so that you have a record that you told them about it as soon as it happened. I think the disease issue is a lame and suspicious excuse for not accepting his return.

Contact Trading Standards if you think the horse has been misdescribed.

 

[Booboos]

How scary for you!

What was the horse like when you tried him? Did you handle him? Did you ride him?

If the breeder sells more than a certain number of horses a year they will be classed as a dealer and you can return the horse for a refund (you may need a solicitor's letter first to get things going). If the breeder is classed as a private seller then I think you may have limited comeback.

 

[AmyMay]

Between him kicking the dog, me and getting through all my fencing, i cant turn him out and hes dangerous in th state he is in at the moment. i dont have the time to deal with an unhandled horse. i thought the basics had been done, didnt find out till after i handed money over the extent of the gaps. going through the breeders facebook i find references to bolting horses so think hes done this before.

Start shouting trading standards at them. That might make them think again.

From your original post, he was settled yesterday - but it was the change today that upset him. So can he go back to the same arrangement as yesterday for a few weeks until he's settled, as that seemed to work ok?

 

[be positive]

Reading between the lines, a homebred 7 year old that is barely backed, has never worn rugs and is sold very cheaply, now they want nothing to do with him, using the excuse of bringing in germs is ridiculous, this sounds suspiciously like a problem horse they just wanted rid of rather than spend time and money getting him to be a useful animal or if there really is something amiss doing the right thing by him.

Legally you are probably onto a loser, you knew he was green, paid little for him, probably failed to ask some searching enough questions or get anything in writing, the fact that he has jumped out, kicked the dog etc can be put down to a new home and being unsettled, if he is nice enough sending him away for a proper evaluation and possibly schooling may be worthwhile if you can find the right place.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

poor boy.
7yo and not seen much of the world.
gets turned out with a new mate, then that one and only friend in the new world gets taken away. he tries to follow and gets zapped, ends up out on the road, no idea where he is, being chased by a car.

hardly his fault at all and if you PTS you are doing so for your sake and not his.

he doesnt sound dangerous, just too much for you personally and that not enough thought/effort went in to his first couple of weeks at your yard.

he needs to go out next to his buddy ,in a strict routine,and form a bond/get familar with the yard, THEN you can start introducing moving things around, varying the routine etc.

IMO you set him up to fail by being so quick to start moving things around, as even very settled horses can get frantic if moving fields etc.

get someone to help you handle him, be firm but fair.

he may be 7 but he's a 3yo mentally and you havent made any allowances!

as far as the kicking goes, if you made a grab for my horse he would kick seven shades out you too, and not all horses are dog reliable, but thats no reason to PTS either.

 

[digitalangel]

Thank you. i think they have sold a few this year. i dont know exaclty how many though. I have already wrote to them via FB to tell them exacrtly what happened i cant take pics of anything or call anyone because of the phone being smashed. the breeders are an old guy and a young girl ( i think a granddaughter ) he was fine when i tried him, i saw him twice, the seond time i tacked up in stable and road him. he was green but OK to ride. the granddaughter hacked him down the road and i followed on behind on foot - they wouldnt let me hack him down the road ' for insurance reasons' they said.

 

[SadKen]

That. Is. Scary.

Could you sedate him and see if that helps in the stable? As an interim measure it might help.

Echo other comments re BHS helpline, finding out if this is a 'dealer' and Trading Standards. You could also go to the small claims court.

Please keep us informed OP, I'm thinking of you and the horse x

 

[digitalangel]

I think youve misread my post. i didnt take any buddies away. i was aware he needed time to settle, i just moved them from one field to another so he could meet the other guys over the fence. i was trying to introduce him to other horses over the fence. he was introduced to his first buddy yesterday over the fence.

please tell me what other effort i should have made?

i only made a grab to try and save his life, from going on the A41.