Horse ownership and working

[SO1]

He is my responsibility and why should the yard staff change their plans in order to care for my pony. They work hard and are tired after a long day.

They would obviously help if I was not well enough to come or in another country or so far away I was unable to come back in time. They are very nice people who will go out of their way in emergencies if I really was unavailable but work is not a good enough reason for not being available. Understandably they feel that I should just leave work immediately and come and that my workplace should accommodate that.

I'm sorry - I didn;t intend to offend you. and I didn't mean for a second that there should be someone on the yard 24/7 just in case! However, I still think that the YO/staff should be taking care of a sick horse on part livery, even if it is after hours.
I inform my owners if a horse isn't well, and they can come up every hour through the night if they want to, but I feel that the responsibility for the horses in my care is mine, and mine alone.

 

[SO1]

Unfortunately don't have any friends who can step in to help nearby. All of the other liveries are part livery or assisted DIY due to their own work or family commitments and are very busy themselves. Quite a few people only come at weekends due to work.

QUOTE="Goldenstar, post: 14950275, member: 82586"]I agree with you SO1 a part livery situation can’t guarantee to produce staff to care in a situation like this .
Do you have friends who can step in when you have meetings that you have to commit to while you are in the stage of working out what’s going on .
This horrible thing to go through mine made me ill in the end .
Do you have any idea why it’s happening ?[/QUOTE]

 

[criso]

Sorry you're going through this

My experience on yards has been more supportive, current yard is mostly basic part livery with a couple of diys and there is a definite help out culture.

When mine has needed out of hours treatment, ym has been there, dropping everything in a Sunday to drive us to hospital and wait with me. With colic she would either get someone to do a late night check or drive back if needed.

At the weekends another livery finishes off. A few weeks ago, a horse got colic last thing Saturday. Vet was called, I watched and walked the horse while she got the last in from the field. Ym was going out in London so told to carry on but check her phone in case. Vet gave instructions for then but also asked horse be lunged and checked in a few hours. Person finishing off who lives nearby, went home to eat then came back.

No one thought to say it was out of hours and while I wouldn't expect round the clock supervision, there are people around to check and keep an eye till about 8pm.

It seems what you are describing were emergencies in the sense it was not planned treatment and the yard should have helped more. I would also hope that work would be accommodating, people take time off all the time for children. I personally would go up to the yard even if I wasn't needed though I would expect to take the time off out of leave or make it up. However there are going to be jobs where you can't just walk out

 

[ester]

My experience on DIY livery is that the YO would absolutely cover for me in a colic/emergency situation. Maybe that's not as 'easy' on a bigger yard?

 

[Sossigpoker]

Would it be possible to put some kind of a camera in the stable so that you could at least do a remote visual check ?

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I’ve been on part-livery and they covered routine vet visits and farrier when I was working. They also did late checks at 10pm where all horses including DIY were checked. They found mine with colic at 10pm and dealt with it until I arrived and would’ve done everything needed if I wasn’t there as at the time I did travel for work quite a bit.

Another yard the YO didn’t even recognise colic then left me to it and wouldn’t even guarantee a late check even though I lived 20 miles away and she lived around the corner. So I sat on the yard on my own at night for about 5 hours making sure he was ok. I moved shortly after that. Nobody stayed on that yard long.

On pure DIY now with no yard provided services but as a yard we support each other as much as possible and we’d deal with what we could but I’d have to deal with it myself ultimately. I am lucky to have very flexible working and a horsey line manager. Other people have children which they flex their working around too.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Would it be possible to put some kind of a camera in the stable so that you could at least do a remote visual check ?

I’ve installed a Reolink Go in my oldies stable. Battery powered and uses 4G through Vodafone. It’s brilliant.

 

[SO1]

Actually we have thought about that as an option. Probably would not help with the vet visits though as would still need to try and leave work to get to yard as quickly as possible if vet is going to be there possibly after 5pm.

It is only in the last 3 years it has been an issue as prior to that he was in good health it is just he has had two injuries with long periods of no turnout and now this weird colic.

I think it is difficult and it does take up more of their time than the other clients if you have a poorly horse but if you have not worked in a senior role they probably don't understand it is hard to just walk out of a meeting and rush off and sometimes quite hard to even book time off for scheduled vets visit which is one of the reasons I am on part livery. The first quarter of the year the CEO does not like us to take leave as we are so busy.

Of course nobody would see a horse suffer and not help but understandably they would of course rather I left work and came and dealt with the situation than having to stay late after a long day and vet visits are hard work and stressful and vets will often prefer to speak to owner face to face. Of course I would much prefer to be there for all his appointments but I need to work to pay for his keep and for myself as well. I am a single person so don't have a partner to share household bills. This job has enabled me to pay for any treatment that is not covered by insurance and extra costs associated with long periods of box rest.

I did say to YO that I won't be getting another horse as when mine goes which I hope will not be for a long time, I had thought being a hardy NF he would see me through to retirement. I just don't think that I can provide that level of commitment needed because of work if anything goes wrong.

Would it be possible to put some kind of a camera in the stable so that you could at least do a remote visual check ?

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Actually we have thought about that as an option. Probably would not help with the vet visits though as would still need to try and leave work to get to yard as quickly as possible if vet is going to be there possibly after 5pm.

It is only in the last 3 years it has been an issue as prior to that he was in good health it is just he has had two injuries with long periods of no turnout and now this weird colic.

I think it is difficult and it does take up more of their time than the other clients if you have a poorly horse but if you have not worked in a senior role they probably don't understand it is hard to just walk out of a meeting and rush off and sometimes quite hard to even book time off for scheduled vets visit which is one of the reasons I am on part livery. The first quarter of the year the CEO does not like us to take leave as we are so busy.

Of course nobody would see a horse suffer and not help but understandably they would of course rather I left work and came and dealt with the situation than having to stay late after a long day and vet visits are hard work and stressful and vets will often prefer to speak to owner face to face.

I did say to YO that I won't be getting another horse as when mine goes which I hope will not be for a long time, I had thought being a hardy NF he would see me through to retirement. I just don't think that I can provide that level of commitment needed because of work if anything goes wrong.

I wouldn’t put work before your life at least not long-term. There are times maybe when starting a career or a major change where a break from horses is needed for awhile or indeed other commitments. However you only have one life and you can’t wait until you retire to start living it. There are many reasons to give up horses but work in itself imo shouldn’t be one of them.

 

[maya2008]

Work pays for the horses (and everything else). Having friends helps share the load when things go wrong, but long-term most illnesses etc are treatable in normal hours. Anything that goes on and on causing loss of work hours, sleepless nights etc is probably not good for the horse either.

I have spent thousands trying to fix older horses and have unfortunately learned that if it’s costing an absolute fortune and taking forever to fix, it probably isn’t fixable and for the horse’s sake, pts would be better. I’ll do arthritis injections (one injection made my old girl field sound 6 years ago so that went well!) and treat for acute injuries or lami, but not much more beyond a certain age.

 

[SO1]

Out of interest why is your horse on no hay or hayledge is it because of teeth?

I've not had to leave work for horse emergencies but when my old dog was ill in 2012 I had to take several half days to get her to the vet.

I've always been DIY (16 years). If there was an emergency my best friend or fiance would be able to help out - same as I would for her.
This year may be rougher as my horse may not be allowed hay or haylage so will need feeds spreading out over winter. I'm saving as much grass as possible for her to try and reduce that.

 

[SO1]

Certainly this can't go on for two years. The vets don't think he has a tumour. The problems started when he did a lot of box rest so I think we sort of presumed there was a link.

He has his rescope at the end of the month so we will know more then.

I read that the ulcer treatment can cause constipation and sucralfate is meant to cause delayed gastric emptying so it may be difficult at the that point to know if his stomach has not emptyed if his stomach is not working properly and it the repeat of the gastric impaction or a rare side effect of the ulcer drugs.

I will be very lonely without a horse if I have to let him go.

I have never had to make a decision to PTS a pet although my family have had lots of cats and dogs over the years. He looks so much brighter since he started the ulcer treatment and has had his arthramid as well. Colic is such an awful thing.

I had a lovely horse who suffered repeated bouts of colic ( it turned out he had tumours on his bowel which we after we put him down ).
I can’t remember how long we lived with it two years ish but for sure I could not have worked or had him on livery .
I could only go shopping when a freelance groom was there when things where at there worse .
The cost was also ruinous .
It was debilitating mentally and physically and financially he had every diagnostic money could buy numerous times .The best vets not only here but abroad as well tried to work out what was going on .
He presented with violent colic and at any point he would just stop and go oh I am fine now .
He broke a rib during one bout and in another shifted the stable building off its brick course, in between he was normal except we learned how we had to feed him.
In end a friend who was vet but not involved persuaded me that everyones health was suffering I could not sleep could not settle when he was in the field if I could see him ( he broke his rib in the field ) and was anxious when I left home which I never did for long .
He was one of the most lovely horses I have ever sat on , I still miss him .
In your case with this horse unless you can find the reason for the colics and deal with it I think you are going to struggle .
The last job I had was very close to home and I certainly would have had to PTS this horse if I had had a job .
I think it’s very hard for people to deal with issues with horses and work unless they are in a staff on site full livery situation .
Happily issues like this are rare but there’s no doubt it’s extremely difficult to manage when they do .I struggled and was was at home with the horse at home with good paid help .

 

[fidleyspromise]

Out of interest why is your horse on no hay or hayledge is it because of teeth?

Hi, Yeah she has diastemas and COPD. She had a specialialist vet dentist in March and they widened the diastenas and had to put a bridge in one of them. Until its been checked I won't know if she's allowed back on soaked hay/haylage but they said likely not.
The bridge went in as the food that was impacted in the gap was close to penetrating into the sinus.

(She'd been getting seen every 3 months from August til then).

 

[maya2008]

If you have to let him go, there’s no reason why you cannot have another. They tend to be mostly problem free in my experience from 7/8ish until late teens. Young horses do silly things and get hurt (my TB was on first name terms with the vet in her youth!) and older horses begin to have problems as they age.

 

[Wishfilly]

Your set up doesn't sound like true part livery- to me it sounds more like assisted DIY. For me, part livery means the yard will do sole care on your part livery days, so if you e.g. had a work commitment or were away, they would take responsibility to some extent. This usually means employing yard staff to do earlier or later shifts, too.

I'm a teacher, and it is really hard, because I simply can't take time off for a vet visit or dentist etc in the middle of the day, and people don't get that. If it was an absolute emergency, I would leave work, but I'd expect there to be negative consequences for me later. Because of this, I'm on a yard where there is someone who will help me out in those situations, and I will pay for that service if I need it.

It is different to children- because our head would understand (but dislike) someone leaving for a sick child, but she wouldn't accept it for an animal (maybe if they were about to be PTS, but that's it).

It's very hard managing horses and a job with no flexibility.

 

[SO1]

Sadly there was something wrong with my beautiful boy. The vets identified the problem with a rescope 5 weeks after clearing the gastric impaction. His stomach was full and food was seen in his oesophagus. Vet said his stomach was like a partially blocked drain so although he was pooing and some food was getting through the majority was just building up in his stomach. Even on the special diet which the vet was confident would work but didn't his stomach was at risk of rupture.

The vet said he thinks it was caused by nerve damage and he was suffering from delayed gastric emptying. It is incredibly rare and they have never had a case like it at the hospital.

Sadly on the advice of my vet I had to put my best friend of the last 15 years to sleep last week. He looked amazing and we were able to go for a last ride together.

I regret complaining about the stress of work and managing him. I wish he were still here. I expect it was just an awful situation and in the last two months the number of vet visits, the hospitalisation and his outcome was exceptional. We have a doctor and lawyer and other professionals on the yard who probably have even tighter schedules and even liveries who spend most of their time outside of the UK. I was unlucky that the last couple of months of my pony's life were so tricky timewise as in the 14 years preceeding it was not like that.

Colic is such a horrible thing so difficult to manage and seems to take such a large number of horses.

The yard owner and other liveries have been fantastic in the lead up, on the day, and during this last week supporting me through my grief.

Today I go to the yard to tidy up his things. I am storing them there as I may get another forester in time. YO and other liveries have said I can come and groom horses and cuddle them in the evenings, I used to be the only evening person. YO has a retired horse that she would appreciate a brush and some extra pampering so that is an option too.

Ironically work has sorted out it's staffing so my job will be easier for next 12 months at least as we have got someone on a 12 month contract to help with a large piece of project work that I was doing.

What has happened recently that's cause this utterly miserable (for you both) situation, if you've had them 15 years and only your only recently getting this trouble then something is drastically wrong with either the horse or the place you keep him?.
I feel for you, it must be horrendous but there is no way i would be putting a horse or myself through this!

 

[JumpTheMoon1]

Difficult situation.Not all employers would be so kind - you would be fired or on a warning.
I hope your pony makes it - if not then i would never have another if you havent got your own land and stables.
I admire you putting your pony 1st which all good owners would do.
You have others in your life who need your help so if this turns out badly then i would call it a day with owning a pony.
Just read you lost him - so sorry to read that.

 

[wills_91]

So sorry to read this. You done everything possible for him. Take care x

 

[SO1]

I would like another but I think even if I had my own land it would have been problematic with work as I would still need to work and would just be returning home rather than going to the yard.

I did say to my work that it would all be over by the end of July he would either be better or PTS.

I think the problem is not where you keep your horses but how you fit in emergencies with a working life. Unless you wfh and horses at home then quite incompatible for most.

Difficult situation.Not all employers would be so kind - you would be fired or on a warning.
I hope your pony makes it - if not then i would never have another if you havent got your own land and stables.
I admire you putting your pony 1st which all good owners would do.
You have others in your life who need your help so if this turns out badly then i would call it a day with owning a pony.
Just read you lost him - so sorry to read that.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Difficult situation.Not all employers would be so kind - you would be fired or on a warning.
.

For doing what?

 

[Laurac13]

Sorry you lost you boy colic is such an awful thing, take care of yourself x

 

[Widgeon]

I would like another but I think even if I had my own land it would have been problematic with work as I would still need to work and would just be returning home rather than going to the yard.

I'd ignore the comment you were responding to there, that poster has form for troll-ish comments. FWIW I think having your own land would actually make situations like this even harder, because you don't have a YO or other liveries to help or support you at all.

I'm sorry you had such an awful time before you lost him - there's no need to regret posting about the stress the whole situation was causing you, none of that was your fault or his. I'm sure everyone here knows that you weren't blaming him for it. It sounds like you did a pretty good job of juggling a lot of balls.

Great news though that you should have a slightly easier time of it at work for a while, do try to be kind to yourself. You deserve that.

 

[maisie06]

My working pattern changes a lot, but is consistently demanding and often far from home. I have been lucky over the years with horse emergencies, but would never have managed without the help of terrific friends, and my children, who have stepped in to fix fences, attend vet visits etc.

Alternatively, I would look for a freelancer who is prepared to step in on an occasional basis, if such a thing exists.

It does exist - I do a little myself, word of mouth for friends and long standing decent clients!!

 

[conniegirl]

SO1 sorry you lost your beautiful boy.

Horses and working is not incompatible you just need a yard where the staff don’t clock off at 5pm on the dot regardless.
I work 1.5hrs away from where i keep my horse. I know that no matter the time someone will stay with my horse until I can get there if needed and deal with the vet for me too.

 

[Barton Bounty]

@SO1 you simply cant think like that, we all need to work to live and in circumstances like yours , you had to take the time off , no one could have forseen the horrific circumstances that ensued! Its not like its a regular occurrence … so please dont let your job put you off as the chance of it happening again would be slim. Its just one of these things. I really dont have a job that I am able to just drop at a moments notice! I am a station master. But I can tell you hands down. When my boy colicked I locked the safe! I locked the station and I left! Fudge it! He came first

 

[SO1]

Following the loss of my beloved Homey I now realise that until I have another new forest I am unlikely to be happy again.

I know it is early days yet and so the grief is still really raw after 15 years of course there will be a massive Homey size gap in my life especially as I live alone and my family and friends are not local so cannot just pop round for a few hours if feeling low.

So far every weekend I have managed to visit friends or do an activity so I am not alone but that cannot continue and I am not great company due to my grief.

I am sad, lonely and bored without a horse to love.

This will be my normal routine now.

Monday evening signed up for a QI Gong course
Tuesday evening at home
Wednesday evening card game
Thursday evening group lesson riding school £56 for 45 minutes
Every other Sat evening Bridge game
Sunday 45 minute hack at RS £56

Old routine
Monday evening at home
Tues evening at yard home at 10.30pm
Wednesday evening card game
Thursday evening at yard home at 10.30pm
Friday evening at yard home at 10.30pm
Sat leave house for yard at 12.30 get home 7.30 every other Sat evening Bridge get home midnight.
Sunday leave for yard at 12.30 home 7.30pm
Holiday days at yard except occasional family visits.

In addition to this I get 31 days AL plus bank holidays and most of this also spent at the yard. I dread weekends now and don't know what to do with my holiday days.

I do have a job that requires me to work away occasional and do last minute work in the evenings this is offset by a lot of AL and a decent salary both of which I have needed during horse ownership.

My parents are getting frailer and are getting to the point where they need more help. They are moving from France back to Norfolk 10 mins drive from my sister next Autumn. My sister and her partner understandably want me to come and help them so weekends will not be as free as they were before. I expect once a month I will need to visit. My Dad is the issue as he has limited mobility mum is in good health and can come and visit me. My sister will probably pop in to check on them every day after work and weekends but occasionally would like a break.

So really the issue is time. My family really did not want me to get another horse as it is a big time commitment and my parents want to see me more. However they have seen how upset I have been have now said I must have another horse, but it would need to kept in a way that won't impact on visiting them or helping them if they need more help or put me at risk of loosing my job due to being unreliable because of vet visits. They have offered to contribute 6k towards new pony which is very kind.

Realistically even though I still have a good amount of savings I need to save up more anyway as I like to have a large vet bill slush fund for anything not covered by the insurance and also in case I lost my job. Homey's vet bills in the last 6 months of his life came to came to about 10k and not all covered on the insurance. Even though it ended in PTS at least I could afford to try everything to try and get him better.

I am still debating about get another horse due to work and now family commitments. Maybe I was unlucky with the colics and associated vet intervention in the last year of his life. Every time a horse colics you never know if it will be its last day so there was always a rush to be there.

Part livery yard is also a rehab yard so leg injuries and other issues can be easily managed it is just the colics but I think that would be an issue at all livery yards unless I had horses at home and worked from home and my parents lived really locally as with colics you never know if it will be the last time you see your horse so they always want you to be there in case it is a PTS case and hourly checks if needed during the night are hard for staff. I suppose an option might be to send horse straight to clinic for the night to do the monitoring.

Maybe new pony would never colic mine didn't for most of the 15 years I had him but I am concerned about getting another now for that reason.

 

[Wishfilly]

Have you thought about a share/part loan type situation? That could give you the balance between having something to fill your time with, and the overall responsibility of having a horse?

I agree that having your own land is worse- on a yard, usually there is someone willing to help out in an emergency!

 

[Birker2020]

I've got to the stage where I don't care as much about work as I used to. If they made a fuss about me taking time off they know I'd go find another job as I'm a contractor and there's plenty of work out there especially kicking off in the city at the moment.

. I was so loyal to the one company i temped at that when Dad was dying i left it to the very last minute to ask for time off and he passed away two days before my days I'd requested off. So I'd left it too late.

I won't make that mistake again. I've actually taken about 30 days off in total since June 2021 but the holiday year is from Jan to Dec and as most of the time i had off was unpaid hours I've been told i can claim my allowance all over again as I've gone from umbrella to paye so i can take time off with the days I've not claimed.

 

[SO1]

Unfortunately I would not be a reliable sharer as I might have to work late if we have a work emergency or travel to see my parents if they need help so I could not promise to do a set day every week.

I was a sharer for 5 years before owning and it ended as my share horse was sold but was able to commit to that at the time as I was in a different job and I used to finish work at 3pm on Wednesday in order to get to the yard in time to catch in and weekends were always free as my parents lived in France and were younger and only saw them once a year.

I cannot commit to being a sharer as due to work I cannot turn out in the mornings and cannot get to yard in time to catch in the evenings hence why I have to be on part livery. It would have to be a grass livery or part livery arrangement with a lot of flexibility to work for me as a share. Shares advertised locally all require jobs being done or want people to hack out during the day which is not an option unless a weekend and some weekends would be out if I need to visit and help my family.

Have you thought about a share/part loan type situation? That could give you the balance between having something to fill your time with, and the overall responsibility of having a horse?

I agree that having your own land is worse- on a yard, usually there is someone willing to help out in an emergency!

Have you thought about a share/part loan type situation? That could give you the balance between having something to fill your time with, and the overall responsibility of having a horse?

I agree that having your own land is worse- on a yard, usually there is someone willing to help out in an emergency!

 

[criso]

Unfortunately I would not be a reliable sharer as I might have to work late if we have a work emergency or travel to see my parents if they need help so I could not promise to do a set day every week.

I was a sharer for 5 years before owning and it ended as my share horse was sold but was able to commit to that at the time as I was in a different job and I used to finish work at 3pm on Wednesday in order to get to the yard in time to catch in and weekends were always free as my parents lived in France and were younger and only saw them once a year.

I cannot commit to being a sharer as due to work I cannot turn out in the mornings and cannot get to yard in time to catch in the evenings hence why I have to be on part livery. It would have to be a grass livery or part livery arrangement with a lot of flexibility to work for me as a share. Shares advertised locally all require jobs being done or want people to hack out during the day which is not an option unless a weekend and some weekends would be out if I need to visit and help my family.

As I've been on part livery, I've always known a lot of shares that don't require any jobs on yards I've been on. Part livery owners are often also time poor through work or family commitments but looking for help exercising and maybe a little help with costs. Some can be flexible with days, one sharer who hacks changes their days around the weather. They seem to look by word of mouth though, there's 2 on my yard who would welcome a sharer but not advertised.

It could be worth putting an advert for what you can offer, just as an interim thing if you felt you'd get more of a connection than a weekly lesson