jinglejoys
Well-Known Member
Can't get to my local shops via bridlepaths and I really think I have as much right to ride the road on my form of transport as anyone else,especially as the roads were originally for horse and foot transport
Horse poo and motorbikes
- Thread starter mperson01
- Start date
NellRosk
Well-Known Member
Really interesting that you've posted this thread!! I was once out hacking and a very threatening looking man stopped me and started ranting about how 'motorcyclists die every year by skidding on horse s*** on the road and I shouldn't be riding on them and should stick to fields because I was a hazard'. I thought he was just a one off loon 
SadKen
Well-Known Member
My OH nearly came off under similar circumstances, he does not use vanishing points and consistently goes into corners too fast before braking halfway round and standing the bike up, effectively removing his ability to steer. That's why I'm faster than him
I'd imagine this guy did exactly that. If you're going too fast and you don't want to manoeuvre with the handlebars, you can change your direction in a corner (not much but certainly enough to avoid something small like a poo) by shifting your body weight, but you need to do it smoothly, and if you've sat up and stiffened due to braking in the wrong place that will be very hard to do. Rider error I think. Bike, not horse!
I'd imagine this guy did exactly that. If you're going too fast and you don't want to manoeuvre with the handlebars, you can change your direction in a corner (not much but certainly enough to avoid something small like a poo) by shifting your body weight, but you need to do it smoothly, and if you've sat up and stiffened due to braking in the wrong place that will be very hard to do. Rider error I think. Bike, not horse!
MileAMinute
Well-Known Member
He was going too fast. Simple.
Horse poo is slippy under the tyres, as is cow muck/mud from tractor treads, spilled oil, loose gravel, wet manhole covers etc but as a bike rider he should already be aware of what is hazardous on the road to him.
When approaching blind bends I always slow right down, particularly on country roads on my commute to the yard. As others have said, that horse poo could be any kind of hazard and you need to be able to deal with it.
Horse poo is slippy under the tyres, as is cow muck/mud from tractor treads, spilled oil, loose gravel, wet manhole covers etc but as a bike rider he should already be aware of what is hazardous on the road to him.
When approaching blind bends I always slow right down, particularly on country roads on my commute to the yard. As others have said, that horse poo could be any kind of hazard and you need to be able to deal with it.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
My OH nearly came off under similar circumstances, he does not use vanishing points and consistently goes into corners too fast before braking halfway round and standing the bike up, effectively removing his ability to steer. That's why I'm faster than him
I'd imagine this guy did exactly that. If you're going too fast and you don't want to manoeuvre with the handlebars, you can change your direction in a corner (not much but certainly enough to avoid something small like a poo) by shifting your body weight, but you need to do it smoothly, and if you've sat up and stiffened due to braking in the wrong place that will be very hard to do. Rider error I think. Bike, not horse!
Yep...or, when you're cranked over going around a bend and shifting your body could put you off balance, procative countersteer and smooth throttle on will help you get around an obstacle AND safely go a bit faster AND get rid of your chicken strips a bit more
I jest, but yes, you've described it perfectly. If you go in too hot...be prepared that you can't get out is what I say!
Dunlin
Well-Known Member
As a motorcyclist and IAM observer I think I am reasonably qualified to say that there is very little argument here especially from the motorcyclist. When I did my ROSPA course you were expected to ride to suit the conditions of the road and your surroundings. I failed the first time as I was doing 40mph on a national speed limit road in the countryside and a tractor came out of a field with his bucket down causing me to swerve. My police instructor simply said to me "you were not looking for the herd of elephants around the next corner". This is how you should ride on ALL roads. My OH is also an advanced motorcyclist and the other day he came round a corner on his motorcycle and there was a loose dog in the road, no panic involved, a quick adjustment to his line (whilst banked over), bring the bike upright, apply brakes and stop to collar the dog.
I'm not trying to be arrogant about this, I make mistakes on the road all the time both on a motorbike and in a car but so many people do not look beyond their bonnet or headlight on a bike and do not drive according to the conditions or surroundings.
I'm not trying to be arrogant about this, I make mistakes on the road all the time both on a motorbike and in a car but so many people do not look beyond their bonnet or headlight on a bike and do not drive according to the conditions or surroundings.
EmmasMummy
Well-Known Member
I am not a biker. I see bikes as very vulnerable...........unfortunately where I live there seem to be many ON the bikes that don't see that themselves! The road I travel daily is a good road for bike according to OH, straight in many parts, nice even bends, and many take advantage of this............forgetting about the concealed entrances and very often than not, lots of mud and crap from the many farms.
Why ride into a corner any more differently than you would drive a car in?! If you cannot see what's round it, don't assume its clear...especially in the country!
Sadly I can see in the future there will be law suits and laws etc surrounding horse poo on the roads....which funnily enough I dont see much of despite every single route out from where I live having horses on it! people are too fearful of the crazy speeding drivers to ride out
Why ride into a corner any more differently than you would drive a car in?! If you cannot see what's round it, don't assume its clear...especially in the country!
Sadly I can see in the future there will be law suits and laws etc surrounding horse poo on the roads....which funnily enough I dont see much of despite every single route out from where I live having horses on it! people are too fearful of the crazy speeding drivers to ride out
_GG_
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's arrogance at all. I am nowhere near as experienced as you, but I know I'm a decent biker and I have been lucky to have extremely experienced people to ride out with from day one. We are allowed to say we are good at something we are good at.
What stands out most for me about your post is the point at the end about not seeing past the bonnet. There was a young lad that passed his bike test a month before me on a bike forum. We went out together a few times and he could not understand how I could "make progress" so much when he was still very on and off the breaks and finding it hard. I had my suspicions, so we went out in the car together. I asked him to give me a running commentary on what he would be seeing/noticing/taking into consideration were he on the bike. Essentially, his riding monologue. We did 20 minutes to the turn around point and I was honestly scared for him. He was only ever reading the road about 50-100 yards ahead of him. On the return journey, I did my inner monologue out loud for him to hear and of course, I hardly took a breath for speaking. What he found most shocking and he was genuinely shocked by it...was that coming out of a corner, I looked at the whole road in front of me from the immediate tarmac to the vanishing point and all possible issues in between, noting any signs, looking for potholes/obstacles/gravel/diesel spills/junctions etc...as well as reading the direction of the road past the vanishing point using what information was available like hedge/tree lines etc.
I'll never forget it, he said, "So you really do have to look everywhere and take everything into account then"?
Um, Yes, you do. I truly believe car drivers should have to ride pillion as part of their test before they are allowed on the roads on a car. Every biker I know has admitted that their driving observations and style became 10x better after sitting on a bike.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
I am not a biker. I see bikes as very vulnerable...........unfortunately where I live there seem to be many ON the bikes that don't see that themselves! The road I travel daily is a good road for bike according to OH, straight in many parts, nice even bends, and many take advantage of this............forgetting about the concealed entrances and very often than not, lots of mud and crap from the many farms.
Why ride into a corner any more differently than you would drive a car in?! If you cannot see what's round it, don't assume its clear...especially in the country!
Sadly I can see in the future there will be law suits and laws etc surrounding horse poo on the roads....which funnily enough I dont see much of despite every single route out from where I live having horses on it! people are too fearful of the crazy speeding drivers to ride out
And cars on the wrong side of the road. Every day I see drivers cut across the lines on right hand bends. This is usually in the spot that many riders will put themselves to get better obs around the bend. The two don't mix well when they meet!
It's all about tolerance, understanding, observations and responsibility. As bikers, we simply can't control everything out there, but we can control our right hand and what it does on the throttle. You can still have fun without going hell for leather everywhere.
SadKen
Well-Known Member
When I were nobbut a lass of 14, I used to ride pillion with my dad on his vfr400rr. For those of you that don't know, they are not designed for pillion passengers besides having footpegs. You have a 10cm square unpadded seat to sit on, no grab handle and only a tiny strap to hold on with. Even at 14 I*could only get two fingers under it. Nothing better for learning to watch the road ahead, otherwise you'd slide about the place, almost fall off, or whack dear old pa on the back of his noggin*under heavy braking!
_GG_
Well-Known Member
I had the slightly tamer CBR400RR gullarm. Amazing little things but blow me...I wouldn't go pillion on one, lol. They are not called pocket rockets and screamers for nothing
I will have one again, but next will be a VFR400RR
LittleMonster
Well-Known Member
didnt read the whole thread!
But i ALWAYS slow down on blind bends you never know what is round the corner, could be nothing or could be something!
I don't take that chance! So personally think he maybe in the wrong as horse poo isn't really that difficult to see (is it???)
And i think getting off and cleaning it up would have caused more danger as then you standing in the road flapping a bag and shovel and a horse who isn't sure what your doing, AND where would you keep a shovel or folk to pick it up when riding... Ridiculous!
Horses were on the road first! (well pedal bikes might have been first)
But i ALWAYS slow down on blind bends you never know what is round the corner, could be nothing or could be something!
I don't take that chance! So personally think he maybe in the wrong as horse poo isn't really that difficult to see (is it???)
And i think getting off and cleaning it up would have caused more danger as then you standing in the road flapping a bag and shovel and a horse who isn't sure what your doing, AND where would you keep a shovel or folk to pick it up when riding... Ridiculous!
Horses were on the road first! (well pedal bikes might have been first)
Dunlin
Well-Known Member
I have had both a CBR400 (NC23) and a VFR400RR (NC30) and they are amazing bikes, getting another CBR400 soon, bike of choice is a Bandit 1200 at the moment, less forgiving for my aging body LOL
I think you sound like a great biker and car driver _GG_ and well done for showing that young lad how to adjust his 'vision' and mindset whilst riding.
I think you sound like a great biker and car driver _GG_ and well done for showing that young lad how to adjust his 'vision' and mindset whilst riding.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
I have had both a CBR400 (NC23) and a VFR400RR (NC30) and they are amazing bikes, getting another CBR400 soon, bike of choice is a Bandit 1200 at the moment, less forgiving for my aging body LOL
I think you sound like a great biker and car driver _GG_ and well done for showing that young lad how to adjust his 'vision' and mindset whilst riding.
I have my dad to thank. None of us are perfect, myself included, but he taught me from a young age, then, when I passed my test, he bought me a 6 month rally driving course and put me on two skin pan days. Invaluable
I have no idea what my next big bike will be
skyrock
Active Member
The twit should have been driving within his capabilities and he clearly wasn't. he should have been able toavoid a bit of poo. what if he;d have met a real problem
Daytona
Well-Known Member
GG is not as simple as being able to stop in time, your a biker surely you know that..?
For instance if your on a sports bike going round a bend and the bike is lent over, the only brake you can use it your rear and all you can do is gentle tap it to scrub off a small amount if speed, once your in the corner your committed it's not like driving a car.
Get along to a track day they will teach you this basic stuff
If you pull the front brake on you will stand the bike upright and go straight ahead into the tree / field/wall what ever is at the side of the road.
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Mike007
Well-Known Member
So! the moral is ,dont go round the corner like that!Just because you have some dumbed down racing machine ,doesnt mean that you have to ride like a dumbed down rider. What if a child was in the road?Edited to add that fortunately 99% of bike riders are incredibly considerate and aware of hazards . I have no problem with bikes whilst on my horse.
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Daytona
Well-Known Member
So if you don't think you should lean a sports bike round a corner how exactly do you get round the corner ..?? You certainly cannot steer a sports bike ..? So I'd love to know how you get round the bend..??
I assume your not a motorcyclist. You do not "steer" a bike like you do a car, to turn a corner you counter-steer the opposite direct from what you want to go which leans the bike over, the tighter the corner or more you lean the bike
This will explain it to those who don't understand motorcycle dynamics
http://idiotsguides.com/static/quickguides/automotive/learning-to-ride-taking-turns-and-corners-on-your-motorcycle.html
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Mike007
Well-Known Member
Motor cyclist and also aircraft engineer ! . The degree you lean in depends on the speed and line you are taking. If you go into a curve with no margin to alter your track and at the full extent of the grip betwean tyre and road, then dont be surprised if some horse poo or gravell sits you on your arse.
Daytona
Well-Known Member
What's a aircraft gotta do with motorbikes and horse poop lol ..??
My original point was about you can't just slam on the brakes like a previous poster had commented , as this will put you into a dyke/field due to standing the bike up
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Cragrat
Well-Known Member
So what would you do if you went round a corner and there was oil/ a branch/child on bike or any other hazard? Are you saying it would be impossible for you to avoid the hazard without crashing? IMO that means you are entering that corner too fast.
You speed endangers yourself and others, and is therefore selfish. Even if it's only you that's physically hurt, other people have to live on with the consequences f your excess speed.
And yes, I ride a motorbike (if you think that's relevant).
fburton
Well-Known Member
As a matter of interest, why isn't that always reasonable?
As Littlemonster said, there could be anything around a blind bend, or over a blind hump. At least it does no harm to slow down to a speed at which one would be able to do a successful emergency stop (or ordinary stop) if necessary.
There is a road to the north of Glasgow which I use frequently - the A809 - which is a fast and, at times, a busy road. Sadly, it is infamous for motorcycle accidents - bikers use it to go up north and they like to meet at the Carbeth Inn which is along this road - and from time to time one sees bunches of flowers at the roadside where accidents have occurred. This road also has a number of blind bends and humps. Over the years, I have encountered numerous cyclists, pedestrians and sheep on this road - even a bl**dy great rock in the middle of the road just over a hump where it had been washed off the side of the hill in a storm. Oh, and the road is subject to flooding too. (I haven't seen any riders for yonks - the road is just too fast - although I have led horses along one of the straighter parts myself in the past.) So when I come to a bend, I always think there is going to be something around the corner - and occasionally there is! And yet you can see people driving like they need to get home 5 minutes ago every single day. :frown3:
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fattylumpkin
Well-Known Member
I'm also a biker and rider The only time I get annoyed is when it's obvious that horses are using a particular section of a road as their pooping station and there's piles everywhere. My mare is also the sort of horse that likes to drop manure in the same spot every hack and to prevent 'build up' I hop off and kick as much of it off the road as possible, otherwise there'd be 5+ piles there by the end of the week and that's not fair on any other road user.
The only time I get annoyed is when it's obvious that horses are using a particular section of a road as their pooping station and there's piles everywhere. My mare is also the sort of horse that likes to drop manure in the same spot every hack and to prevent 'build up' I hop off and kick as much of it off the road as possible, otherwise there'd be 5+ piles there by the end of the week and that's not fair on any other road user.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
Where on earth did I say slam on the brakes?? Please read my words and not put your own assumptions onto me.
What I said was come to a stop under breaking by the time the road in front of him ran out. If that's not how you were taught or not how you ride a bike...you're going to end up in the same position as the poor chap this thread is about. At no point did I say slam on the brakes in a corner. Actually, I have mentioned in this thread that when cranked over in a bend and needing to get around an obstacle, one of the options open to us as riders is active countersteer...that is the skill of being able to increase the lean angle and throttle at the same time and in balance that allows you to countersteer around an obstacle, not needing to sit the bike up mid bend. But...the point is, when you go into a corner that is blind enough that you can't see an obstacle like a horse poo in the road, you should go in at a speed which means you are going to be able to react to the unexpected, riding a line that gives you the safe maximum view of the emerging road and in a gear that means you don't have to use the brakes mid bend...on my CBR400RR and ZXR600RR that was normally 3rd gear unless it was a particularly tight and blind bend where I couldn't read the hedge/tree line. That allowed me to just throttle off a little and use engine braking for speed control. Hell, if you have a twin, you can do it in pretty much any gear thanks to the torque. Then, not necessarily going slowly around the bend, just going at a safe speed in a gear where you are right in power band, and on the right line, as soon as you see the exit and a clear road, you can get on it like a car bonnet and come out of the bend however fast you like and will be safe.
Regards Mike, being an aircraft engineer is actually very relevant to talking about the abilities of bikes to react in bends. Bikes, despite what most non-bikers think don't actually want to lean and fall over. From the moment they are under drive, the gyrscopic effect takes effect and that is what most bikers believe, erroneously, keeps a bike upright. In truth, the gyroscopic effect, whilst there, is actually quite small. It is the effect of the steering geometry that truly keeps a bike upright. Aided by the gyroscopic effect, yes, but it'll work alone. When you see a biker come off in a race where they've got into a tank slapper or similar, occasionally, the bike will carry on, perfectly upright and straight and, as sometimes seen, will even appear to steer itself around a bend. Actually, the bike is steering itself. It's how they are designed and it's due to the design of the forks and their relation to where the front wheel makes contact. Basically, the design is that the front wheel, unaided by human interference, will always steer itself under the new centre of balance for the bike, so if the camber falls to the left, so the bike will correct itself to stay upright in the camber. We are the ones that mess it up...so while you have questioned Mike on the relevance, you also assumed he was not a biker, so I find it perfectly reasonable that he explain his relevant experience and being an aircraft engineer will mean that he has a heck of a lot more knowledge about the physical forces and effects of a bike than we do.
I do get what you're saying Daytona, you can't slam the brakes on mid corner...but nobody said that you should. If a biker thinks it's acceptable to go into a corner at a speed where they can't stop the bike before they run out of road, one day, they will seal their own fate. The reason for one of my friends deaths was all his own making. He was 23 and he went into a bend too hot. He went for the racing line without using proper observations and his speed meant that he had no way to avoid the gravel close to the kerb that he didn't spot until the last second. His last second attempt to avoid it meant sitting the bike up and his choice of speed going into the bend meant that he was off the road and into a tree, a sapling with a 4 inch diameter trunk...but at that speed, it was enough to kill him instantly. As harsh as it is and as much as we miss him...it was 100% an avoidable accident and he died because he didn't ride to his vanishing point. He rode past it and left himself no room for error.
I know I probably didn't need to say all of that, but I have because it sounds like, whether you intend it that way or not, that you think some of us are not being realistic. We are.
Hope all that makes some form of sense.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
I'm also a biker and rider
Would that not make the remaining hazardous slippy poo harder to spot for a biker? I get why you do it, but I would have thought an obvious obstacle was better than a hard to spot one.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
It should always be reasonable. When we get on public roads on our bikes, we are not just responsible for our own safety, so I don't understand why any biker would not go around a blind bend in a fitting and safe matter. It doesn't mean you can't have fun
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Well this is a first horse poo being a danger on the road lol
Well this also applies to cars and trucks, oil is just as likely if not more likely to cause an accident where a bike rider hit a patch of oil and skidded and crashed causing his young passenger to be in a wheelchair for life (personal experience).
Horse riders do not ride with poop scoops and are not expected to clear it up, unless from idiots like this. Bike riders should take more care when going round corners as they are on two wheels and can get into trouble easily.
If he was not speeding he would have just driven through it but he must have applied his brakes as he went over it which then in turn would have caused him to skid. Just as likely a dead deer or fox with blood on road could have done as a spillage could.
To many drivers drive round corners like there will not be a hazzard. I had this double Decker last week do this as he did not expect a horse so flew round the bend almost caused my horse to go under him.
Take care on approaching corners where you don't know whats round the bend.............................................
fburton
Well-Known Member
Which include driving fast when it is safe to do so.It should always be reasonable. When we get on public roads on our bikes, we are not just responsible for our own safety, so I don't understand why any biker would not go around a blind bend in a fitting and safe matter. It doesn't mean you can't have fun
ETA: Just to mention that I am speaking as a car driver, not a biker, in case there was any uncertainty.
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littleshetland
Well-Known Member
As a biker of many years (Harley, Triumph, Laverda..I could go on) OP - tell that fella to learn to ride a bike properly. The roads are FULL of slip hazards - to pick on horse riders is ridiculous.
Lunchbox legend
Well-Known Member
...going in a slightly different direction (from someone who rides a horse, drives a car and rides a bike) - I see fresh horse poo on the road and take it as a warning that there could be a horse somewhere along the road I'm about to ride/drive on. It's valuable information. I wonder if the bloke who came off would understand if I said 'IPSGA' to him?