jinglejoys
Well-Known Member
Can't get to my local shops via bridlepaths and I really think I have as much right to ride the road on my form of transport as anyone else,especially as the roads were originally for horse and foot transport
My OH nearly came off under similar circumstances, he does not use vanishing points and consistently goes into corners too fast before braking halfway round and standing the bike up, effectively removing his ability to steer. That's why I'm faster than him
I'd imagine this guy did exactly that. If you're going too fast and you don't want to manoeuvre with the handlebars, you can change your direction in a corner (not much but certainly enough to avoid something small like a poo) by shifting your body weight, but you need to do it smoothly, and if you've sat up and stiffened due to braking in the wrong place that will be very hard to do. Rider error I think. Bike, not horse!
As a motorcyclist and IAM observer I think I am reasonably qualified to say that there is very little argument here especially from the motorcyclist. When I did my ROSPA course you were expected to ride to suit the conditions of the road and your surroundings. I failed the first time as I was doing 40mph on a national speed limit road in the countryside and a tractor came out of a field with his bucket down causing me to swerve. My police instructor simply said to me "you were not looking for the herd of elephants around the next corner". This is how you should ride on ALL roads. My OH is also an advanced motorcyclist and the other day he came round a corner on his motorcycle and there was a loose dog in the road, no panic involved, a quick adjustment to his line (whilst banked over), bring the bike upright, apply brakes and stop to collar the dog.
I'm not trying to be arrogant about this, I make mistakes on the road all the time both on a motorbike and in a car but so many people do not look beyond their bonnet or headlight on a bike and do not drive according to the conditions or surroundings.
I am not a biker. I see bikes as very vulnerable...........unfortunately where I live there seem to be many ON the bikes that don't see that themselves! The road I travel daily is a good road for bike according to OH, straight in many parts, nice even bends, and many take advantage of this............forgetting about the concealed entrances and very often than not, lots of mud and crap from the many farms.
Why ride into a corner any more differently than you would drive a car in?! If you cannot see what's round it, don't assume its clear...especially in the country!
Sadly I can see in the future there will be law suits and laws etc surrounding horse poo on the roads....which funnily enough I dont see much of despite every single route out from where I live having horses on it! people are too fearful of the crazy speeding drivers to ride out
I truly believe car drivers should have to ride pillion as part of their test before they are allowed on the roads on a car. Every biker I know has admitted that their driving observations and style became 10x better after sitting on a bike.
When I were nobbut a lass of 14, I used to ride pillion with my dad on his vfr400rr. For those of you that don't know, they are not designed for pillion passengers besides having footpegs. You have a 10cm square unpadded seat to sit on, no grab handle and only a tiny strap to hold on with. Even at 14 I*could only get two fingers under it. Nothing better for learning to watch the road ahead, otherwise you'd slide about the place, almost fall off, or whack dear old pa on the back of his noggin*under heavy braking!
I have had both a CBR400 (NC23) and a VFR400RR (NC30) and they are amazing bikes, getting another CBR400 soon, bike of choice is a Bandit 1200 at the moment, less forgiving for my aging body LOL
I think you sound like a great biker and car driver _GG_ and well done for showing that young lad how to adjust his 'vision' and mindset whilst riding.
I haven't read any replies because I don't need to. His brother came off because he was riding beyond his vanishing point. That is...he was taking the corner at a speed which meant he could not have come to a stop under breaking by the time he the road in view ran out. If a motorbike rider can't manoeuvre around or stop in front of an obstacle in the road, he needs to seriously re-think the manner in which he rides his bike. Ask your friend who he would blame if his brother had gone around the corner to meet a tractor or car emerging from a side road???
I honestly get fed up of motorbike riders blaming stuff like this on other people. It's actually really quite easy to be safe on a motorbike. Your life and the futures of other road users are at the mercy of a bikers right hand and brain. I say "futures" of other road users because while many drivers do cause motorcyclists to come off and be killed, excessive speed by the rider is often a contributing factor and the blame should not IMO always lie fully on the shoulders of the driver. There are thousands of drivers alive right now, living with the nightmare of remembering a collision with a bike in which the biker died. All it takes is for bikers to be a little more intelligent in their riding and drivers to be a little more observant.
OP...am I on your facebook? If I am, direct me to this thread as it sounds like your friend needs to hear a dose of reality.
I am sorry his brother came off his bike, but it is entirely his brothers fault. Dan and I have had up to 9 bikes in the garage between us and done literally hundreds of thousands of miles and trust me...we know how to have fun, but it is absolutely possible to do it safely.
Ask your friend if his brother understands the concepts of "in slow - out fast" and "riding to the vanishing point"?
Finally...Are we to make trees clean up their leaves in the autum/drivers stop and clean up their diesel spills etc? He's upset and being defensive...but the best way he can help prevent his brother being in an even worst state one day is to open his eyes and give him some constructive advice!
So! the moral is ,dont go round the corner like that!Just because you have some dumbed down racing machine ,doesnt mean that you have to ride like a dumbed down rider. What if a child was in the road?Edited to add that fortunately 99% of bike riders are incredibly considerate and aware of hazards . I have no problem with bikes whilst on my horse.GG is not as simple as being able to stop in time, your a biker surely you know that..?
For instance if your on a sports bike going round a bend and the bike is lent over, the only brake you can use it your rear and all you can do is gentle tap it to scrub off a small amount if speed, once your in the corner your committed it's not like driving a car.
Get along to a track day they will teach you this basic stuff
If you pull the front brake on you will stand the bike upright and go straight ahead into the tree / field/wall what ever is at the side of the road.
So! the moral is ,dont go round the corner like that!Just because you have some dumbed down racing machine ,doesnt mean that you have to ride like a dumbed down rider. What if a child was in the road?Edited to add that fortunately 99% of bike riders are incredibly considerate and aware of hazards . I have no problem with bikes whilst on my horse.
Motor cyclist and also aircraft engineer ! . The degree you lean in depends on the speed and line you are taking. If you go into a curve with no margin to alter your track and at the full extent of the grip betwean tyre and road, then dont be surprised if some horse poo or gravell sits you on your arse.
My original point was about you can't just slam on the brakes like a previous poster had commented , as this will put you into a dyke/field due to standing the bike up
As a matter of interest, why isn't that always reasonable?If it's round a blind bend you don't really stand much chance, no - theoretically you shouldn't be going so fast that you can't respond if there is a hazard around that bend, but that's not always reasonable and doesn't imply speeding.
What's a aircraft gotta do with motorbikes and horse poop lol ..??
My original point was about you can't just slam on the brakes like a previous poster had commented , as this will put you into a dyke/field due to standing the bike up
I'm also a biker and rider The only time I get annoyed is when it's obvious that horses are using a particular section of a road as their pooping station and there's piles everywhere. My mare is also the sort of horse that likes to drop manure in the same spot every hack and to prevent 'build up' I hop off and kick as much of it off the road as possible, otherwise there'd be 5+ piles there by the end of the week and that's not fair on any other road user.
As a matter of interest, why isn't that always reasonable?
As Littlemonster said, there could be anything around a blind bend, or over a blind hump. At least it does no harm to slow down to a speed at which one would be able to do a successful emergency stop (or ordinary stop) if necessary.
There is a road to the north of Glasgow which I use frequently - the A809 - which is a fast and, at times, a busy road. Sadly, it is infamous for motorcycle accidents - bikers use it to go up north and they like to meet at the Carbeth Inn which is along this road - and from time to time one sees bunches of flowers at the roadside where accidents have occurred. This road also has a number of blind bends and humps. Over the years, I have encountered numerous cyclists, pedestrians and sheep on this road - even a bl**dy great rock in the middle of the road just over a hump where it had been washed off the side of the hill in a storm. Oh, and the road is subject to flooding too. (I haven't seen any riders for yonks - the road is just too fast - although I have led horses along one of the straighter parts myself in the past.) So when I come to a bend, I always think there is going to be something around the corner - and occasionally there is! And yet you can see people driving like they need to get home 5 minutes ago every single day. :frown3:
I'm posting here for a second opinion. I've been having a facebook debate with a motor cyclist who popped up on a friend's feed saying that he wished all riders would would stick to bridle paths, as there are plenty of them. I did point out that apart from the fact that there aren't plenty of bridle paths, and that roads have to be used to get those there are, but his main gripe seemed to be that his brother had hit a horse poo on a blind bend, and fell off said bike. Therefore all riders, if they really MUST use the road should get off and immediately clean up any poo. My question is, for those particularly who ride bikes and horses, is poo in the road especially dangerous, or is this the first ever known accident due to a poo? Is it senaible and good practice to do this? Also, as a driver, I suggested that excess speed (but not speeding)may have played a part, but was quickly shot down for sterotyping all motorcyclists as speeders. Is it the case that you can't easily change line on a bike, should such a hazard present itself?
Which include driving fast when it is safe to do so.It should always be reasonable. When we get on public roads on our bikes, we are not just responsible for our own safety, so I don't understand why any biker would not go around a blind bend in a fitting and safe matter. It doesn't mean you can't have fun