Horse prices- low end

[maya2008]

Cost - think of it in terms of a house.

- Foal on the ground = bought the land.
- Age 0-3/3.5 built the walls and the roof so it is structurally sound.
- Handling and backing = wiring, plumbing, internal doors, kitchen, bathroom.
- First experiences (beginning shows, learning to jump, up to being a solid allrounder) = garden landscaping, decorating.

Huge increase in value from 0 (no land) to finish (ready to move in).

Then you buy it and move in. Does it go up in value? Depends on the market, disasters (flooding?) and how you take care of it. Could go up, could go down.

It’s not ok to expect the builder and all the tradesmen to make a loss and do their work for free, just because when you move in the value doesn’t change much. They did the work to get it liveable. You benefit from that. Unless you add an extension (further training e.g. BS points, BD achievements) then you cannot add significantly to its value, as it’s a finished product. The money you put into maintenance is just that - maintenance.

If we started offering less to buy a house than it cost to build, no one would build houses any more (because they need to earn money to feed their own families) and each family would have to learn how to do it themselves. That’s what has happened in the horse world - no one will pay for a professional to do it, so they end up with novice produced animals and then complain about it.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I'd also pop to the sales- brecon often have nice enough youngsters through the ring and although she might have to go younger and wait a year or two, the saving would pay for professional backing if wanted. I wouldn't consider buying just backed myself- that usually means either "has been sat on" or at the other end something that has been "produced" for a quick sale and consequently hammered with leg and hand to try and get a pretty sale video/photo- not the basic education you want to get them soft off the leg. IMO both of those aren't worth the extra 1-2k they stick on the price! (But maybe I'm just fussy )

 

[SO1]

My friend isn’t on here, but she did come and have a nosey and appreciates the different thoughts.

Personally I think I will always struggle to get my head around just how high prices at the lower end have gone. Do I think they were previously around grand too low? Yes, without a doubt. I think your previous £800 4 year old basic 13hh cob should have fetched £1500-1800, maybe £2k. But I really struggle with these now being £4-5k.

And I think breaking down the costs of what a horse costs to raise or keep is a bit of a non-issue. If I worked out what Millie has cost me over the last 6 years in stabling, bedding, hay, worming, teeth, feet etc, I can’t realistically expect to recoup that money back if I ever sell her.
It reminds me of the time someone was selling a pony that she bought in error as a complete novice and found herself completely over horsed. Someone offered to give her what she paid for it and she responded with a list of what the pony had cost her to keep for the 4 months she had had it, down to the price of the wheelbarrow and tools she purchased.

Friend is going to enquire about some unbroken youngsters, anyway.

It is simple economics - supply and demand. Cobs and natives around that size are becoming more popular with adults and they tend to be cheap to keep and with the cost of living so high these sorts are in demand as they can live out on minimum rations and often don't need shoes.

As well people giving advice in terms of what to buy if you look at the thread where Birker was looking people were telling her to buy a cob. Anyone who is older, lost a bit of confidence etc is encouraged to buy cobs and there probably just not enough suitable ones around. Dealers know they can make money flipping them out quite quickly and lots are advertised on Facebook.

 

[Mudfukkle]

This one looks lovely, also on NFED

Well bred new forest gelding

Full details on the NFED Classifieds - www.nfed.co.uk #horses #ponies #equestrian

www.nfed.co.uk

 

[Goldie's mum]

Sorry if this sounds like "well the answer is not to want what you want" , but if your friend looks either side, at the two ends of the age range she can get what she wants for that money, albeit with a bit of risk.
I was looking for exactly the same as your friend for different reasons.
(Light, older, cowardly person needing a steady hack to accompany the fillies someone younger & braver is backing!)

She would need the right facilities & a bit of confidence in her ability but at the lower age end, I know a knowledgeable and honest place north of you, that would sell her a good quality 3 yo cob, sensible, calm, decent conformation and halter trained, for £600-£800. *

At the other end, it's a bit more risky but you can get ex RS/trekking ponies that have a genuine, fixable reason for no longer being profitable. (That's what I ended up with. It's risky because they need teaching to hack alone & not all get the hang of it.)


*Wish I hadn't looked. Seen one I want now!

 

[exracehorse]

Too young ? https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/...sifieds/horses-livestock/horses-ponies?page=8

 

[Goldenstar]

You won’t find a rideable green sound horse forward going with a good mind very cheap .
Thats what your friend has got to get her mind around .

 

[Goldie's mum]

I would recommend looking at the lady In Kendal, beautiful natural native ponies

Erm, just asking for a friend, do you know roughly what the lady's prices are?

 

[Panda2000]

https://www.horsemart.co.uk/stunning-grey-spot-mare-4-years-/Horses/729049 she looks lovely

 

[scats]

I suppose that regardless of the rights and wrongs, the crux of the matter is that this is where we are with prices and we either get our heads around it or give up, which is fair enough. We’ve both been in the game long enough to know that, in the horse world, you either hop on the train or get off the track.

On a positive (or perhaps not!) note, I pointed my friend in the direction of Helmside Fells and have found myself absolutely drawn to one in particular, which was categorically not where this thread was supposed to end up

 

[Goldie's mum]

I suppose that regardless of the rights and wrongs, the crux of the matter is that this is where we are with prices and we either get our heads around it or give up, which is fair enough. We’ve both been in the game long enough to know that, in the horse world, you either hop on the train or get off the track.

On a positive (or perhaps not!) note, I pointed my friend in the direction of Helmside Fells and have found myself absolutely drawn to one in particular, which was categorically not where this thread was supposed to end up

Always risky picking ponies for other people. I'm wanting a cob at the Airdrie dealer I pointed you to!

 

[honetpot]

Cost to chuck them in a field and get on with it?

The days of people paying £60 per acre per YEAR are nearly over. Land costs around £22000 per acre anywhere south of about Shropshire. Round where I live and other friends within 100 miles or so are paying between £60 and £100 per acre for just a field. So 12 months to get pregnant and have foal. 36-42 months from birth until backing. 54x£60= £3240

£300 for passport and initial vet check after foaling. £135 for initial course of vaccines then £45 a year for the next two if you buy at 3.5yo. Wormer. Insurance. Hay in the winter at £12 per week per pony for a small one - another cost that has gone up. Say you hay in just Dec through Feb. 12 weeks minimum x mare’s pregnancy year and 3 years to adulthood. £576

I will assume hooves left to break off naturally and wormer not done. No insurance.

So…backing. £200-250 per week x minimum 6 weeks. £1200. Handling if not done already would be another 3-4 weeks so £800 more.

So how much, minimum, does it cost to chuck them in a field, and get them to just about sat on and basic riding away but no further? £5000-5800 - more if anyone has bothered to worm them or look at their feet.

Cheaper is only a real possibility if someone along the way made a loss. If you want someone to back your horse for free, then £3800 would be a basic cost.

I buy cheap - feral and off the moors cheap. All the handling still to do, cost no one any money for land rent growing up, but also had no wormer, insurance, hoof care, vaccinations or handling. Even so, it would cost me the equivalent in time to £2000 to handle and back, plus I then have to add the vaccination cost. To get them to the point where, given their feral history, I can confidently pass them on to someone else? You’re looking at six months of work. So six months of field rent (£360) and hay, and feed, and six months of at least an hour of my time 6 days a week to ride/care for them (assuming riding 3-4x week because they are young, poo picking, groundwork etc taking up the rest of the time). Even if I only paid myself minimum wage that’s around £1700. So if I paid £750 for an uncatchable pony who someone can’t wait to get rid of (and that’s the going price for a feral Welsh A so bigger would be more) then I would have to add over £4000 to that when I sell as a 4yo to break even in terms of time and money.

I enjoy making a project but we make them for ourselves because no one will pay what it costs to nicely train a pony. Then we watch the disasters at SJ and think…well…if people would pay a decent price for a well produced pony, they wouldn’t be in that situation!

To make it cost effective, you never really make money, I buy two year old large natives that are well bred, usually someone has bought them as a foal and have no idea, so they may have a few handling issues, I started with a very cheap Highland that was riddled with worms so looked terrible,and sell them at three/four but I have just about stopped backing them because of the cost, the last one I sold unbacked, and was sold without advertising.
Selling small ponies is torture, so I stopped, I can sell a large native or anything over 14.2 within a couple of weeks on a take or leave basis, and make a decent 'profit' and the nice thing most stay in one home.The Highland I started with is still in the same home over ten years later.
You probabley put more time and effort in to training an alrounder pony for a child, but because the buyers seem to think its like buying a pair of shoes, and already thinking what happens when they outgrow it, so they are just looking for problems, they also think that the way pony behaves is never going to be affected by the rider or handling.

 

[sollimum]

I suppose that regardless of the rights and wrongs, the crux of the matter is that this is where we are with prices and we either get our heads around it or give up, which is fair enough. We’ve both been in the game long enough to know that, in the horse world, you either hop on the train or get off the track.

On a positive (or perhaps not!) note, I pointed my friend in the direction of Helmside Fells and have found myself absolutely drawn to one in particular, which was categorically not where this thread was supposed to end up

Every cloud - how exciting!

 

[SO1]

I think cobs and large natives have become more popular with adults. 6 year old new forests are around 10k now.

Traditional cob showing at high levels like HOYS was not happening years ago and the market for cobs is very different now.

 

[southerncomfort]

I suppose that regardless of the rights and wrongs, the crux of the matter is that this is where we are with prices and we either get our heads around it or give up, which is fair enough. We’ve both been in the game long enough to know that, in the horse world, you either hop on the train or get off the track.

On a positive (or perhaps not!) note, I pointed my friend in the direction of Helmside Fells and have found myself absolutely drawn to one in particular, which was categorically not where this thread was supposed to end up

I follow her on FB, but try never to look at each ponies photo album.

Always get very close to convincing myself that since I've had so much fun with my young Fell, I'd have even more fun with another youngster to run alongside him now he's 7!

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Curious, genuinely, why you see costs as non issue? Maybe I am misunderstanding the nuance. Apologies if so.

Because the reality is they cost far more to keep than we can realistically expect back?

Millie has cost me well over £20k since I’ve owned her. Do I think I can recoup that back selling her? Does that make her worth £20k straight off?
And then how far do you go? Livery fees, bedding, hay… how much petrol it cost me to get there and back to see to her twice a day?

If I'm allowed to add my outside point of view, sorry this reply sounds very crass, if we're talking a backed/ridden horse in general, to me, there's a difference between overheads which actually adds value to the horse, and basic overheads the seller have had due to simply owning the horse, which is a voluntary obligation they took on when they bought the horse. While they've owned the horse they've also had the potential use of the horse, which could be argued represents the value they got back on the overheads they've had. (ETA: Thought it, but forgot to write that I only meant the Basic overheads in the last sentence./ETA)

Hypothetically, let's compare it to that you buy a 4 year old car which needed a MOT soon after you bought it, you had the car for about 2 years, but just after paying for its 3rd MOT, you put it up for sale. In that situation, I presume that you wouldn't expect the buyer to repay you what the car have cost you in fuel, potential parking costs, and the cost for the 2 no longer valid MOT's from previous years, because your value back on those overheads is the potential use you've had of the car during the time you owned it.

However, I can understand that the overheads matters for horse breeders producing foals. On the other hand, from the foal buyers point of view, they're paying for a living, mobile lump of potential that they can just hope won't break before it's time to put a harness/saddle on him/her...

 

[Goldenstar]

There’s a cob on right horse right home atm called sprout 14 h I think I think it was 3300 I thought it was an nice all rounder type .

 

[Polos Mum]

Cheap Broken Sound

It is old fashioned but still holds true - you can have two of the above but not all three.

If she wants Broken and Sound they won't be cheap.

If she wants cheap then probably best to look at unbroken / barely broken.

 

[honetpot]

If I'm allowed to add my outside point of view, sorry this reply sounds very crass, if we're talking a backed/ridden horse in general, to me, there's a difference between overheads which actually adds value to the horse, and basic overheads the seller have had due to simply owning the horse, which is a voluntary obligation they took on when they bought the horse. While they've owned the horse they've also had the potential use of the horse, which could be argued represents the value they got back on the overheads they've had.

Hypothetically, let's compare it to that you buy a 4 year old car which needed a MOT soon after you bought it, you had the car for about 2 years, but just after paying for its 3rd MOT, you put it up for sale. In that situation, I presume that you wouldn't expect the buyer to repay you what the car have cost you in fuel, potential parking costs, and the cost for the 2 no longer valid MOT's from previous years, because your value back on those overheads is the potential use you've had of the car during the time you owned it.

However, I can understand that the overheads matters for horse breeders producing foals. On the other hand, from the foal buyers point of view, they're paying for a living, mobile lump of potential that they can just hope won't break before it's time to put a harness/saddle on him/her...

If you are comparing running costs, perhaps you have a point, but you are not training a car, it should come fit for purpose on the day you buy it, not as some tractors are sold as a kit in a box and you put together. Some of the cost is of a car of a car is based on it being new, it often loses 30% when it leaves the showroom, and 20% of the price is VAT, and then you have devalues because of how its treated, and the amount of milage. A good older car often hold its value, depending on how its cared for.

A sensible horse or pony has many hours of work, to make it sensible, I used to do it becauseI did not have the money to by a ready made animal for my children of any sort, my cheapest was £250, that hunted, PC and the odd show, it hated showing. When I thought of selling him, was he still worth £250?
When I buy a youngster I always factor in what it will cost to keep it to three, its costs as much to keep a good'un as a bad'un, I take that risk that it will stay sound and be fit to sell, my overheads are low, but like everything if something is worth X, why should I sell it for less because it cost less than X to produce, even if I didn't breed it.

Then we have supply and demand. There are so few people who have the time, knowledge and the patience to produce and almost idiot proof horse, that of course people who do not know the work that goes in think its easy or do not know what a good animal actually looks like, so your skill like a plumber is valuable
My daughter got a back handed complement at PC, 'its OK for you, you always have something nice to ride', but she made them that way, because we rode after school five times a week often around housing estates, and on long hacks from her being seven. We had fun, and in the end I kept them all, because in the end no amount of money could replace them.
I have seen so many people who by an OK pony, green but OK, and turn it in to a naughty nappy monster, because they lack skill, like I say it looks easy, if it was easy there wouldn't be so many with ifs and buts for sale.

 

[SO1]

I don't think it is anything to do with how much it costs to get a cob to standard required by your friend. It is completely about what people are willing to pay to get horse they want and how popular that type of horse is.

An ex race horse which may have costs a small fortune to bred and produce the price for sale is low because few people want them and if people want to sell them they have to sell at a price that people will pay.

Safe hacking horses suitable for adults and children are popular and people will pay for safety and sellers know this so price accordingly. If they then can't sell in the timeframe they want to and need to they drop the price.

 

[scruffyponies]

Welsh Section C 2 Year Old Filly for sale in Darwen | Dragon Driving

Registered Welsh sec C 2 year old filly with all the bling. Bred in the purple, good to do in all ways. No vices. Lots of wins and championships.

www.dragondriving.co.uk

 

[cauda equina]

Ride and Drive Gelding for sale in Lynemouth Morpeth | Dragon Driving

Black and white cob, gelding coming 3 years old, 13.2hh. Ride and drive.

www.dragondriving.co.uk

 

[webble]

What about a standardbred? The smaller ones are around 14.2 but fairly fine they tend to be cheap

 

[Gloi]

This looks sweet.

New Forest x Gelding for sale in Hampshire | Dragon Driving

Rising 3 year old New Forest x Appaloosa gelding. Excellent summer project as ready to break in spring. Lovely colouring. Well handled picks up feet, comes to call, Utd worming and vacs. Standing at 13.2/3hh at the moment to make 14.1hh. ng.

www.dragondriving.co.uk

 

[nagblagger]

Are you tempted @Gloi ?

 

[Gloi]

Are you tempted @Gloi ?

I can only afford to keep the one I've got in the luxury he has been accustomed to, unfortunately. 40 years ago I may have been . The yard I'm on has a foal I'm taken with but must resist.

 

[marmalade76]

If you are comparing running costs, perhaps you have a point, but you are not training a car, it should come fit for purpose on the day you buy it, not as some tractors are sold as a kit in a box and you put together. Some of the cost is of a car of a car is based on it being new, it often loses 30% when it leaves the showroom, and 20% of the price is VAT, and then you have devalues because of how its treated, and the amount of milage. A good older car often hold its value, depending on how its cared for.

A sensible horse or pony has many hours of work, to make it sensible, I used to do it becauseI did not have the money to by a ready made animal for my children of any sort, my cheapest was £250, that hunted, PC and the odd show, it hated showing. When I thought of selling him, was he still worth £250?
When I buy a youngster I always factor in what it will cost to keep it to three, its costs as much to keep a good'un as a bad'un, I take that risk that it will stay sound and be fit to sell, my overheads are low, but like everything if something is worth X, why should I sell it for less because it cost less than X to produce, even if I didn't breed it.

Then we have supply and demand. There are so few people who have the time, knowledge and the patience to produce and almost idiot proof horse, that of course people who do not know the work that goes in think its easy or do not know what a good animal actually looks like, so your skill like a plumber is valuable
My daughter got a back handed complement at PC, 'its OK for you, you always have something nice to ride', but she made them that way, because we rode after school five times a week often around housing estates, and on long hacks from her being seven. We had fun, and in the end I kept them all, because in the end no amount of money could replace them.
I have seen so many people who by an OK pony, green but OK, and turn it in to a naughty nappy monster, because they lack skill, like I say it looks easy, if it was easy there wouldn't be so many with ifs and buts for sale.

Thing is people still want big money for naughty nappy monsters.

 

[Gloi]

Thing is people still want big money for naughty nappy monsters.

Want and get are very different things.

 

[Maddie Moo]

This looks sweet.

New Forest x Gelding for sale in Hampshire | Dragon Driving

Rising 3 year old New Forest x Appaloosa gelding. Excellent summer project as ready to break in spring. Lovely colouring. Well handled picks up feet, comes to call, Utd worming and vacs. Standing at 13.2/3hh at the moment to make 14.1hh. ng.

www.dragondriving.co.uk

He’s gorgeous

 

[honetpot]

Thing is people still want big money for naughty nappy monsters.

If you watch few sell and if they do really something is worth what ever people are prepared to pay. Some people are just better at selling that others, my friend got £2k more than I was asking when she sold a pony of mine from her yard.