Horse pulling back - any ideas?

arwenplusone

arwenplusone

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Yogi is a bit of an idiot for pulling back atm.
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He has obviously learned somewhere along the way that if he pulls hard enough he can break anything he is tied to.
He has broken several leadropes lately which is fairly annoying. All he seems to do is trot round the yard/fields with his tail in the air until someone catches him, but I find it infuriating. Especially since he has an uncanny knack of doing it when I am in a hurry....

I have tried a bungee rope, he broke it.
On Sat I was plaiting him & he tried it, but I had 3 lead ropes on him, so he only broke one, but then he had a rearing paddy. (again this is a nice little evasion he seems to have been allowed to get away with). Fortunately I didn't let go & eventually he gave in.
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So, now I am having to always do him in his stable, which is a pain in the bum. Anyone got any good ideas or tips to stop him dicking about like this? Ta.
 
I cured one who did this by the following (slightly faffy) method.
Tie horse to tie ring as normal.
Gather lunge line (cotton) and baler twine to go over horse's back).
Clip end of lunge line to tie ring, through loop of baler twine (to stop it being round the horse's legs (or use a roller), round horse's bum (above hock) back through baler twine, through tie ring, to your hand as you lurk.
When horse pulls back, pull the lunge line til it gives a sharp jerk on his ass.
If you sort out the lunge line so it is safe, you can tie them leaving it in place, to the tie ring (with string) rather than your hand).
Mine learned after about 3 days.
Alternately, the old fashioned way would be to tie him to an immovable object, with unbreakable headcollars/ropes, but that might not be a good idea.
S
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hmm, that seems logical & I did wonder if I could set something up like this so that he just gives up when he feels the lunge line. But since he rears I'm not sure this will work. Will have to experiment when I've got a bit of time though.

The old school tying him to a huge immovable object is not the way to go IMO - he's very strong and he's also a bit thick so that could all end in tears.
 
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hmm, that seems logical & I did wonder if I could set something up like this so that he just gives up when he feels the lunge line. But since he rears I'm not sure this will work. Will have to experiment when I've got a bit of time though.


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Don't pull hard enough to flip him over backwards!
S
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mine diod this and i ust tied straight to the ring-he son learnt, but saying that he didnt pull hard enough to break the leadrope. hmmm, have you tried flicking him with a lunge whip on the backside when he pulls back?
 
I wouldn't tie straight to the ring. I did that to a horse that pulled back & rather than the (frayed) rope breaking, the fence rail broke taking the tie ring & me with it!
I was knocked beneath his feet & he ran around the yard trailing the rail with him. I was very battered & bruised & my phone was smashed, so I'd be very careful.
 
Mine used to do this, as he had only ever been crossed tied when i got him. Lunge line through the ring to your hand, so when he pulls back, the rope goes with him, then when he tries to trot off, he gets pulled back in again. Giving him nothing to pull against stopped the rearing, as he had nothing to fight, and he still realise he couldnt go anywhere...
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My mare was a madam for this - not bothered by anything but she'd get bored of standing there for more than a few minutes if you weren't with her. She got worse and worse to the point of where if she couldn't break the rope she'd pull till the clip snapped or the ring came off the wall.
I got the really thick rubber covered chain tie rope, it's really sturdy and she couldn't break that. She dave up trying at all after a couple of weeks and now she's fine to tie up normally.
 
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I wouldn't tie straight to the ring. I did that to a horse that pulled back & rather than the (frayed) rope breaking, the fence rail broke taking the tie ring & me with it!
I was knocked beneath his feet & he ran around the yard trailing the rail with him. I was very battered & bruised & my phone was smashed, so I'd be very careful.

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ouch!!!! our rings were fixed to a concrete wall thank god!
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You could use Shils method and put the lunge line through the headcollar, then over the poll and back through the other side. Dont clip it onto anything though, just hold it. That stops them going up. (I have used a similar thing for loading tricky horses that pull back and go up, but use a bridle initially and eventually, well usually quite quickly, I use a headcollar. Within about six loadings you dont have to pass the lunge rope over the head)

The reason I dont clip onto any thing is because at the end of the day if the horse really wants to fight, for its own safety I want to be able to release.

I havent used the method for tying a horse up, just loading but could see how it could work.
 
we usually tie a youngster with two headcollars and ropes (or even light chains) to a telegraph pole and leave them to it for a while. They will only fight and hang for so long then give up a stand calmly. You can put boots etc on but I've never known one hurt himself at all. Just make sure what you use won't break.
 
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I wouldn't tie straight to the ring. I did that to a horse that pulled back & rather than the (frayed) rope breaking, the fence rail broke taking the tie ring & me with it!
I was knocked beneath his feet & he ran around the yard trailing the rail with him. I was very battered & bruised & my phone was smashed, so I'd be very careful.

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Don't worry - there's no way I will be trying that!
 
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You could use Shils method and put the lunge line through the headcollar, then over the poll and back through the other side. Dont clip it onto anything though, just hold it. That stops them going up. (I have used a similar thing for loading tricky horses that pull back and go up, but use a bridle initially and eventually, well usually quite quickly, I use a headcollar. Within about six loadings you dont have to pass the lunge rope over the head)

The reason I dont clip onto any thing is because at the end of the day if the horse really wants to fight, for its own safety I want to be able to release.

I havent used the method for tying a horse up, just loading but could see how it could work.

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I think this is the best way forward atm. I am not happy tying him up & leaving him to it, or tying him to something solid so I think this seems to be the safest/most logical route. Will give it a go anyway.
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Mine used to do this, as he had only ever been crossed tied when i got him. Lunge line through the ring to your hand, so when he pulls back, the rope goes with him, then when he tries to trot off, he gets pulled back in again. Giving him nothing to pull against stopped the rearing, as he had nothing to fight, and he still realise he couldnt go anywhere...
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Yeah, this is also similar to Shilasdair's thinking. Will have to spend some time working on it methinks. Thanks
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Horses are "into pressure" animals- you lean on them- they lean back harder, this helps them to get along as a herd when travelling through tight spaces etc. If they feel trapped and restricted their natural instinct is to pull and run away.

Teach your horse to yield to pressure. In a safe area like an arena, with gloves, hat etc use a thin rope Natural Horsemanship halter (like a Parelli halter) and a long leadrope and ask your horse to "follow the feel" of the halter by using increasing phases of pressure to ask the horse to lower its head/move it from side to side etc. As soon as the horse yields, release the pressure instantly- so he learns that the release is the reward.

The benefits of a method like this can also be applied to ask the horse to move over in the stable, and to respond to leg aids etc, making the horse lighter and more responsive.

Once your horse realises that it has to give and respond to pressure, rather than panic and violently react it may be calmer to stand tied.

Why not consider checking out some natural horsemanship resources to give you a greater understanding of your horse, and more effective training methods too?

www.parelli.com is a good start.
 
QR I have an unorthodox one that has worked on a few:
tie up as normal, to bale twine or whatever you tie them to (how very British of you:)), place a bendy trug bucket of water (the bigger the better) directly behind the horse, about 2 steps away.
The horse pulls back, the twine gives way (eventually), the horse looses balance slightly and gracefully sits in a bucket full of cold water, the horse never pulls back again:)))
 
I hesitate to post this link but the last paragraph has me in stitches every time so here goes: Just a bit non-PC

My own PITA for tieing up - he's a panicky Welsh - has a 12 foot rope instead of a standard lead rope and it is looped directly through the tie ring. If he's got his sensible head on then the end is just left on the floor. If he has his "I'm a terrified poor abused pony" head on then I hold the end of the rope as I work round him.

We can't use a lunge line anywhere near him - he panics and is liable to turn himself over - hence the long lead rope.
 
What I'm picking up from this is horses tied to inappropriate objects for the tie up lesson (ie. anything thats not indestructible) Horses tied with inappropriate equipment, ie. lead ropes that can be boken, headcollars that can be boken, lead ropes with clips etc

I'd suggest firstly, that if you are not experienced enough and confident enough to deal with the issue, seek professional help. Likewise if you don't have appropriate equipment. It can be dangerous to horse and human so if in doubt - DON'T!

But...if you have the experience and confidence......

Lead rope.... Very strong rope ...15mm yachting type rope as a minimum...8' minimum.

NO CLIPS!!!!!!! they are a weak point and a heavy metal projectile and bludgeon! Knot the rope directly to avoid the issue.

Head collar... forget webbing, forget leather...a rope one...But not the piddly 6mm or 7mm ones you see most often. Atleast an 8mm one...I make my own out of 9mm yacht rope...indestructible! Whats needed...because so far what you have been teaching your horse is that he can win by breaking stuff! You've created a bigger problem and it may well take some serious fixing!.....but it HAS to be fixed, because there is little more dangerous than a loose horse and not much more of a PITA than a horse you can't ever tie up without the risk of having said loose horse....

Neck collar.... commercial one made of seat belt type webbing, padded with felt or fleece and a good solid D ring on each end are Ok..I have one of them and my "big job" one I've made from 6" nylon fire hose with a sewn eye on each end...

"Tree of knowledge" ....ours is a 4.5" heavy wall steel pipe cememnted into a hole drilled 3'6" into rock... It AIN'T moving!
It's covered in old Go-Cart tyres to add some cushioning.
A good solid tree of a decent size works just as well...but has to be solid sound and secure!

Place headcollar on horse.
thread rope through loops on headcollar...do not tie.
Place collar around neck
thread rope through one end of collar and tie to other ring/eye.
You now have collar snug around neck to take the direct pull and rope leading through headcollar to "direct" nose of horse without actually taking load of pull on the horses poll.
Tie lead rope securely to "Tree of Knowledge" well above wither height. Don't make it too long...don't want a leg over it or a "run up" when they try it out!

You can tie the lead to a doubled up inner tube tied to the tree for a bit more "give" if required...


Sit back and wait for fireworks!
They will carry on a right turn and do some horrible things, but real injuries beyond hair off are not common. They happen tho, so be prepared for it as a remote possibility. But if the choice is a dangerous horse who won't tie and a problem solved the risks are worth it.
 
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QR I have an unorthodox one that has worked on a few:
tie up as normal, to bale twine or whatever you tie them to (how very British of you:)), place a bendy trug bucket of water (the bigger the better) directly behind the horse, about 2 steps away.
The horse pulls back, the twine gives way (eventually), the horse looses balance slightly and gracefully sits in a bucket full of cold water, the horse never pulls back again:)))

[/ QUOTE ]

PMSL! Now that just HAS to be worth a try
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I hesitate to post this link but the last paragraph has me in stitches every time so here goes: Just a bit non-PC

My own PITA for tieing up - he's a panicky Welsh - has a 12 foot rope instead of a standard lead rope and it is looped directly through the tie ring. If he's got his sensible head on then the end is just left on the floor. If he has his "I'm a terrified poor abused pony" head on then I hold the end of the rope as I work round him.

We can't use a lunge line anywhere near him - he panics and is liable to turn himself over - hence the long lead rope.

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lol at the link
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Inner child indeed...
But your method is the way I teach the babies to tie up, so possibly I should consider doing that. Thank you
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Horses are "into pressure" animals- you lean on them- they lean back harder, this helps them to get along as a herd when travelling through tight spaces etc. If they feel trapped and restricted their natural instinct is to pull and run away.

Teach your horse to yield to pressure. In a safe area like an arena, with gloves, hat etc use a thin rope Natural Horsemanship halter (like a Parelli halter) and a long leadrope and ask your horse to "follow the feel" of the halter by using increasing phases of pressure to ask the horse to lower its head/move it from side to side etc. As soon as the horse yields, release the pressure instantly- so he learns that the release is the reward.

The benefits of a method like this can also be applied to ask the horse to move over in the stable, and to respond to leg aids etc, making the horse lighter and more responsive.

Once your horse realises that it has to give and respond to pressure, rather than panic and violently react it may be calmer to stand tied.

Why not consider checking out some natural horsemanship resources to give you a greater understanding of your horse, and more effective training methods too?

www.parelli.com is a good start.

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I am really sorry, and I am sure it works for you, but I cannot be arsed with all that parelli rubbish. I am fully aware that horses are inter pressure animals and of course I understand response to the leg aids and moving away (duh!), but this is a big hulking 16.3 holsteiner (who I understand quite well actually) & I need a slightly more effective way of dealing with him.

Thank you anyway.
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Horses are "into pressure" animals- you lean on them- they lean back harder, this helps them to get along as a herd when travelling through tight spaces etc. If they feel trapped and restricted their natural instinct is to pull and run away.

Teach your horse to yield to pressure. In a safe area like an arena, with gloves, hat etc use a thin rope Natural Horsemanship halter (like a Parelli halter) and a long leadrope and ask your horse to "follow the feel" of the halter by using increasing phases of pressure to ask the horse to lower its head/move it from side to side etc. As soon as the horse yields, release the pressure instantly- so he learns that the release is the reward.

The benefits of a method like this can also be applied to ask the horse to move over in the stable, and to respond to leg aids etc, making the horse lighter and more responsive.

Once your horse realises that it has to give and respond to pressure, rather than panic and violently react it may be calmer to stand tied.

Why not consider checking out some natural horsemanship resources to give you a greater understanding of your horse, and more effective training methods too?

www.parelli.com is a good start.

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If my horses are 'interpressure animals' why do I not find them stuck to each other in the field?
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Why do they move away politely to a touch, instead of sticking to me magnetically?
I do, however, love the visual image you have furnished me with - of a herd of horses practicing formation glueing prior to cantering as one through a mountain pass.
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In reality, I think you'll find that horses have a set exclusion zone around themselves, into which only friends are allowed.
S
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Im sorry but im totally on Jazzelles side on this one...dont punish your horse to make it stand there!

Bridie can be a monkey at pulling back she broke her brand new leather headcollar in Jan! but she didnt feel safe where she was tied at that time (a broom fell on the floor) she is normally ok i make sure the baletwine is thin so she can easily break it when she needs to flee from some terribly dangerous like a broom!
 
instead of tying him can you loop a lunge line through the tie ring instead?

that is what i do so you can hang on and when they try and pull back you can keep the pressure up until they give in to it?

i use this method with the babies to teach them to tie and also with horses that are sods and pull back and it works very well
 
Murphy used to do this when we got him and we were given the following tip which worked.
Make a loop of an old tail bandage through the usual baler twine loop. Then tie lead rope to bandage loop. When the horse pulls back it gives quite a bit which confuses them as they aren't getting the resistance they expect. Not saying its foolproof but it worked for Murph.
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Im sorry but im totally on Jazzelles side on this one...dont punish your horse to make it stand there!

Bridie can be a monkey at pulling back she broke her brand new leather headcollar in Jan! but she didnt feel safe where she was tied at that time (a broom fell on the floor) she is normally ok i make sure the baletwine is thin so she can easily break it when she needs to flee from some terribly dangerous like a broom!

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But what if she flees from something terribly dangerous like a broom, into something even more terribly dangerous like a car?
Or even worse, into a person, another livery, say and injures them?
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It's irresponsible to just shrug when your horse is out of your control and say 'ah, but I love her so much I don't want to 'punish' her by making her stay tied up'.
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If you can't trust your horse to stay tied up, then either you sort the problem (as Mayflower is) or you put her in the stable and keep her and others safe instead.
S
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